Junior football, what is the future?

[Robert James]

3 hours ago, GNU_Linux said:

3 hours ago, Robert James said:

Back on topic........ are individual AGM's held for the  West, East and North Regions  before the AGM for the SJFA ? To what extent does the SJFA have a veto over the decisions made individually by the three regional Associations ? 
Is the SFA Board expected (or required ?) to meet before  the AGM's of the Lowland, EoSL, and SoSL are held ? To what extent, if any, do the SFA Board's decisions about the pyramid and licensing, need to be approved/ratified at the SFA 's (full) annual meeting ?
Have any of the above AGM dates been set  ?

The regions all hold AGMs. I don't expect much from the north agm sans maybe whats happening with Inverness City. East & West on other hand could be very interesting. Then ofc theres the SJFA AGM itself. No dates set for any as far as I know.

......To what extent does the SJFA have a veto......." ?

[glensmad]

The SJFA AGM comes on the 3rd Saturday in June every year (15th this year). The West Region AGM is after that, unsure of the exact date.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

The SJFA AGM comes on the 3rd Saturday in June every year (15th this year). The West Region AGM is after that, unsure of the exact date.

So too late to take any meaningful action/change for next year?

[Burnie_man]

SFA AGM is, I think, 12th June. EoS AGM is 6th June. ERJFA AGM is normally the week after SJFA.

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

SFA AGM is, I think, 12th June. EoS AGM is 6th June. ERJFA AGM is normally the week after SJFA.

Lowland League had their AGM on the 29th May last year. With the knock-on effects to both the Lowland League and EoS there will hopefully be a decision on licensing in a couple of weeks.

[Cyclizine]

4 hours ago, Robert James said:

They could ground share with the Wee County at Station Park, which is an attractive venue.  Juniors Montrose Roselea are successfully sharing with their town's senior club, at Links Park.

The other "wrinkle" might be that having a Highland Region location, means  they could  apply to  join the North Caledonian League for next season, and beyond. 

If the 3G pitch at Grant Street had gone down, we'd probably have seen City and Clach sharing. Sadly, as predicted at the start of the season, City going into abeyance made it game over. I did wonder if the ladies' team might continue, but they've now moved under ICT's wing. Probably not really space for two NCL teams in Inverness. Never say never, though.

[Pyramidic]

17 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

  TBH, I don't think the ERSJFA are bothered at all about being in the pyramid, either at organisational or club level. There's certainly likely to be less clubs who want in than those who couldn't care less.

If they did, they would happily move over to the EoS to be back in the same structure as the former ERSJFA big guns from South of the Tay.

The frustrating thing for our junior colleagues is that the apathy from the remaining clubs/ERSJFA is at this moment stopping the WRJFA teams from being able to move over.

RP and IM had no real sense of the issue, unsurprisingly, when they turned up. They continually referenced an unwillingness to support juniors in the pyramid.

It was repeatedly pointed out to them that no one had any issue at all with the juniors being in, it was the overlapping league's for no reason in the East.

A straw poll was actually conducted in the meeting, with both in attendance. "Would anyone have an issue with the West juniors, Tayside and North juniors moving over to Teir 6 next season under their geographical feeder?"

Not one dissenting voice, everyone agreed that's what was best for the game.

And an invite was extended to join the EoS for the remaining South sides to get them in as well. Again, not a dissenting voice.

Hopefully RP and IM went away realising that the bullshit they have been fed re: EoS and LL not wanting the juniors in was a nonsense. Everyone wants the juniors in, they just want it in the most sensible way.

In a nutshell gaz5 has highlighted the core issue that there is no opposition from the EoSL to the West Region moving en masse over to the Pyramid.

It appears that the "log jam" has been created by TJ and the SJFA Executive.

What do the West Region clubs propose to do about it? 

Or will we see another repeat again at the end of next season. Possibly after another 9 months of fake news from KB & Co.

[santheman]

14 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

In a nutshell gaz5 has highlighted the core issue that there is no opposition from the EoSL to the West Region moving en masse over to the Pyramid.

It appears that the "log jam" has been created by TJ and the SJFA Executive.

What do the West Region clubs propose to do about it? 

Or will we see another repeat again at the end of next season. Possibly after another 9 months of fake news from KB & Co.

The "log jam" as you put it has been caused by the mandate the clubs voted for last year, TJ and the SJFA Executive are only doing what the clubs instructed them to do.

That might well change at the next AGM

 

[Pyramidic]

14 minutes ago, santheman said:

The "log jam" as you put it has been caused by the mandate the clubs voted for last year, TJ and the SJFA Executive are only doing what the clubs instructed them to do.

That might well change at the next AGM

 

An EGM would have easily circumnavigated the "log jam".  The basic problem appears to be the tepid support for the Pyramid by TJ / SJFA Executive. Why solve a problem when that very problem can be used to sew delay and even disharmony?

It is so disappointing.  It is clear that the first phase of Junior participation (incorporating the West Region) could have been implemented for 2019/20 season if the Executive had shown any initiative whatsoever to get the matter over the line.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Pyramidic

[gaz5]

The "log jam" as you put it has been caused by the mandate the clubs voted for last year, TJ and the SJFA Executive are only doing what the clubs instructed them to do.
That might well change at the next AGM
 

While I see what you are saying mate, when it becomes obvious that the mandate you have been given is both undesirable, undeliverable and pursuing it will needlessly impact on the majority of your members those who have the mandate should be presenting that again to their members, whom they are supposed to serve.

Not to mention it seems to have been easy enough to drop the North juniors from that mandate as and when it suited, so it's obviously not iron clad.

Also, It's not out with TJ's control to have called an EGM at any point in the last 3 months to present what everyone had been saying, that the West, Tayside and North if they want could go next season (with discipline aligned to SFA) and the East could either stay external to the pyramid in the ERSJFA or join the EoS to be within it, whatever the clubs preferred.

That conversation, when it was blindingly obvious to everyone was the case, is what a leadership acting in the best interests of their members would have done and allowed their members to vote on that.

Instead we got what has now proven, from the horses mouth, to be false guarantees about a "done deal for Teir 6" and then allowing the ERSJFA to have reconstruction votes knowing that would further kibosh the idea, seemingly without telling the clubs that.

The answer here is and always has been very, very straightforward. Is it a coincidence that the only person who, unfortunately, may suffer from that answer seems from the outside to be doing anything he can to undermine it?

I hope following Thursdays meeting and what was said by RP a lot of junior clubs, particularly those in the West, take notice and are in a mood to ask questions.

We all want the juniors in. It's for the good of the game on the non league. The way to do that is relatively simple and always has been.

[Dev]

29 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

While I see what you are saying mate, when it becomes obvious that the mandate you have been given is both undesirable, undeliverable and pursuing it will needlessly impact on the majority of your members those who have the mandate should be presenting that again to their members, whom they are supposed to serve.

Not to mention it seems to have been easy enough to drop the North juniors from that mandate as and when it suited, so it's obviously not iron clad.

Also, It's not out with TJ's control to have called an EGM at any point in the last 3 months to present what everyone had been saying, that the West, Tayside and North if they want could go next season (with discipline aligned to SFA) and the East could either stay external to the pyramid in the ERSJFA or join the EoS to be within it, whatever the clubs preferred.

That conversation, when it was blindingly obvious to everyone was the case, is what a leadership acting in the best interests of their members would have done and allowed their members to vote on that.

Instead we got what has now proven, from the horses mouth, to be false guarantees about a "done deal for Teir 6" and then allowing the ERSJFA to have reconstruction votes knowing that would further kibosh the idea, seemingly without telling the clubs that.

The answer here is and always has been very, very straightforward. Is it a coincidence that the only person who, unfortunately, may suffer from that answer seems from the outside to be doing anything he can to undermine it?

I hope following Thursdays meeting and what was said by RP a lot of junior clubs, particularly those in the West, take notice and are in a mood to ask questions.

We all want the juniors in. It's for the good of the game on the non league. The way to do that is relatively simple and always has been.

Agreed. The WRJFA clubs are staring at an open door to the Pyramid for next season, but they do have to follow their vote from last year. No-one else can do it for them. However, they will need to sweep aside old loyalties to some who have, apparently, sought to put themselves above the good of the clubs. However, those clubs who don't wish to make the move should be recognised and assisted too, but within their present Juniors structure i.e. re-structuring.

[Burnie_man]

If the SFA had recommended a year ago the setting up of a WoSFL for those clubs who wanted to move into the Pyramid we would be looking forward to next season with a West/East/SoS play-off for the LL.  The SJFA could have been left to administer those clubs who were happy as they are with the Juniors.

But no, it was all about preserving the SJFA come what may. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, and a reluctant peg at that.

[Robert James]

4 hours ago, gaz5 said:

While I see what you are saying mate, when it becomes obvious that the mandate you have been given is both undesirable, undeliverable and pursuing it will needlessly impact on the majority of your members those who have the mandate should be presenting that again to their members, whom they are supposed to serve.

Not to mention it seems to have been easy enough to drop the North juniors from that mandate as and when it suited, so it's obviously not iron clad.

Also, It's not out with TJ's control to have called an EGM at any point in the last 3 months to present what everyone had been saying, that the West, Tayside and North if they want could go next season (with discipline aligned to SFA) and the East could either stay external to the pyramid in the ERSJFA or join the EoS to be within it, whatever the clubs preferred.

That conversation, when it was blindingly obvious to everyone was the case, is what a leadership acting in the best interests of their members would have done and allowed their members to vote on that.

Instead we got what has now proven, from the horses mouth, to be false guarantees about a "done deal for Teir 6" and then allowing the ERSJFA to have reconstruction votes knowing that would further kibosh the idea, seemingly without telling the clubs that.

The answer here is and always has been very, very straightforward. Is it a coincidence that the only person who, unfortunately, may suffer from that answer seems from the outside to be doing anything he can to undermine it?

I hope following Thursdays meeting and what was said by RP a lot of junior clubs, particularly those in the West, take notice and are in a mood to ask questions.

We all want the juniors in. It's for the good of the game on the non league. The way to do that is relatively simple and always has been.

 

Excellent post, but will loyalty "for the grade" (and maybe for TJ ?) mean that the West Juniors, won't or can't, act jn time for 2019/20 ? 

Also, are there ANY East Juniors (below the Tay) who would now want to join the pyramid/EoSL ?  Or does the "loyalty to the grade" prevent them from doing so ?

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Robert James
typo

[Ped]

The SFA should now decide we have gave the juniors enough time to be involved in the pyramid over the years should just set up a West league invite applications tell rest of clubs who don’t want to be involved this is last chance leave the clubs no longer interested in a closed shop organisation and remove the carrot of Scottish entry for there league or cup winners and let them get on with there mini leagues 

[Dev]

1 hour ago, Ped said:

The SFA should now decide we have gave the juniors enough time to be involved in the pyramid over the years should just set up a West league invite applications tell rest of clubs who don’t want to be involved this is last chance leave the clubs no longer interested in a closed shop organisation and remove the carrot of Scottish entry for there league or cup winners and let them get on with there mini leagues 

Now that the picture is becoming clearer about apparent stalling tactics at SJFA/TJ level (?) it may be easier for progressive West Juniors and south of Tay Bridge ERJFA clubs to bite the bullet and make their moves. In the east delay seems likely to lead to entry at a lower level i.e. Tier 8 rather than the current Tier 7 which is on offer. No-one who has made the switch last summer has any regrets about doing so.

[Arthurlie1981]

The SFA should now decide we have gave the juniors enough time to be involved in the pyramid over the years should just set up a West league invite applications tell rest of clubs who don’t want to be involved this is last chance leave the clubs no longer interested in a closed shop organisation and remove the carrot of Scottish entry for there league or cup winners and let them get on with there mini leagues 

I’m not sure there is enough time for all this to happen for next season. I agree, It’s the best way forward now but clubs would likely have to get members permission and members would be looking for more information on what the new league would look like. Why not wait until March next year and allow for full information to be presented to clubs and you are more likely to get better response than throwing something together quickly.

Also there seems to me the SFA still want the juniors (in the west at least) to come over as is and maybe they are hoping that there are more defections from the West Lothian and Fife clubs to make this easier.

[Black & Red Socks]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

Now that the picture is becoming clearer about apparent stalling tactics at SJFA/TJ level (?) it may be easier for progressive West Juniors and south of Tay Bridge ERJFA clubs to bite the bullet and make their moves. In the east delay seems likely to lead to entry at a lower level i.e. Tier 8 rather than the current Tier 7 which is on offer. No-one who has made the switch last summer has any regrets about doing so.

 

9 hours ago, Robert James said:

Also, are there ANY East Juniors (below the Tay) who would now want to join the pyramid/EoSL ?  Or does the "loyalty to the grade" prevent them from doing so ?

Progressive and ambitious teams in the ERSJFA, if there are any left, really need to understand that they are being told one thing when something entirely different is happening. If Tier 6 football is in any way to be open to the Juniors in the east then their top league has to be a region wide, 16 team one. Anything else and there is no Pyramid access…..and there is definitely no access to the Pyramid next season anyway if the words of SFA Vice President Rod Petrie, reportedly spoken at an Easter Road meeting with the EoSFL at the end of last week, are to be believed.

In direct conflict with the requirement for such a 16 team region wide league, the majority of the ERSJFA clubs themselves apparently want a form of north/south regionalisation with more local derbies as the saviour of their game – but I was at West Calder on Saturday to see the home side take on Stoneyburn in what was a local derby and there could have been no more than 40 people there so, with the best will in the world, I just can’t see how this type of deckchair shuffling is going to provide anything other than diminishing returns.

I’ve just read on the Fauldhouse United thread that the likes of them, Bathgate Thistle and Armadale Thistle should consider it a no brainer to move to the EoSFL if that opportunity still exists ahead of the EoSFL AGM in June. I can only agree. Like the poster on the Fauldhouse United thread says, if they all did so a logjam might be broken, others will almost certainly follow and, consequently, local football will be retained but within the Pyramid with the ensuing possibility of upward movement where none exists at the moment.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Black & Red Socks

[12 Angry Men]

42 minutes ago, Black & Red Socks said:

I’ve just read on the Fauldhouse United thread that the likes of them, Bathgate Thistle and Armadale Thistle should consider it a no brainer to move to the EoSFL if that opportunity still exists ahead of the EoSFL AGM in June. I can only agree. Like the poster on the Fauldhouse United thread says, if they all did so a logjam might be broken, others will almost certainly follow and, consequently, local football will be retained but within the Pyramid with the ensuing possibility of upward movement where none exists at the moment.

I think it's the Fauldhouse manager who posts on here as JC1 and, although not the strongest proponent of the Pyramid and of leaving the Juniors, I sense that he can see the direction of travel and it's maybe the likes of him and other like minded individuals at the clubs you mention that hold the key here - if they were to convince their clubs that one final opportunity exists to get out from under the yolk of the SJFA then maybe we would indeed see the logjam you talk about being broken.

Edited April 29, 2019 by 12 Angry Men

[FairWeatherFan]

26 minutes ago, gogsy said:

What are the chances of the juniors top Northern team Banks of Dee heading to Highland league if Cove end up in SPFL?

 

Other than Banks O'dee there is no one licensed with floodlights. Doubt Banks would fill it this summer due to short notice.

But with a year to plan for it, maybe next year.

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, 12 Angry Men said:

I think it's the Fauldhouse manager who posts on here as JC1 and, although not the strongest proponent of the Pyramid and of leaving the Juniors, I sense that he can see the direction of travel and it's maybe the likes of him and other like minded individuals at the clubs you mention that hold the key here - if they were to convince their clubs that one final opportunity exists to get out from under the yolk of the SJFA then maybe we would indeed see the logjam you talk about being broken.

Any interested clubs should contact the EoSL Secretary (David Baxter) now.

As an aside, the final 3 home games for Penicuik , as published on their website, had attendances of

495 v Musselburgh           477 v  Bonnyrigg              454 v Broxburn           

 

39 minutes ago, gogsy said:

What are the chances of the juniors top Northern team Banks of Dee heading to Highland league if Cove end up in SPFL?

 

Banks O'Dee Chairman has repeatedly said he has no interest in joining the HFL.  So probably unlikely.  Also as an SFA licensed club, they have a 'free pass' to the Scottish Cup each season.

Do supporters of Banks, want to keep winning the Juniors league, or do they yearn for better competition, and advancement as a club ?