Junior football, what is the future?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

It prompted the Maxwell e mail stating that the Juniors were in at tier 6 so someone from the EoSL agreed at the time!

EOS has never and will never accept a league operating at the same level covering the same geographical area. That appears to be a fallacy at this point being used to drive the 'juniors are in at tier 6' bandwagon. 

Time will tell I suppose. I hope the west comes over as is. The east is and has always been the issue. With the expected mass rejection of the current proposal by both LL and eos league clubs I genuinly have no idea what happens next and where the whole thing will proceed. 

My fear, for everyone, is that we never get to see how far some clubs will be able to progress, top to bottom, because there is no clear middle ground to be found or a reluctance to search to find such ground on some individuals parts. 

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

It prompted the Maxwell e mail stating that the Juniors were in at tier 6 so someone from the EoSL agreed at the time!

That's what I meant by the PGB acting on the September PWG meeting. But there is no version of the September PWG minutes so nobody can say exactly what was agreed.

Go back to May and you had TJ's own version of events of the PWG saying a straw poll was done and the EoS said no but were okay with the West Region coming.

I don't think there was a meeting in July so it's straight on to September. The news at the time was split: EoS agree to West and Tayside at Tier 6 (supported by the EoS minutes from their October meeting). Then the SJFA side was saying it was the EoS, SoS, West Premiership & East Super League four way play-off.

Maxwell's email comes out in October but never gets acted on. November PWG mainly deals with the disclipline and registration rules with some stuff on the play-off which is never specified as to what it would be. Then you get to January and the East/Tayside issue rears its head again.

[Kilbowie Benches]

7 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

That's what I meant by the PGB acting on the September PWG meeting. But there is no version of the September PWG minutes so nobody can say exactly what was agreed.

Go back to May and you had TJ's own version of events of the PWG saying a straw poll was done and the EoS said no but were okay with the West Region coming.

I don't think there was a meeting in July so it's straight on to September. The news at the time was split: EoS agree to West and Tayside at Tier 6 (supported by the EoS minutes from their October meeting). Then the SJFA side was saying it was the EoS, SoS, West Premiership & East Super League four way play-off.

Maxwell's email comes out in October but never gets acted on. November PWG mainly deals with the disclipline and registration rules with some stuff on the play-off which is never specified as to what it would be. Then you get to January and the East/Tayside issue rears its head again.

It has been acted on though as the SFA have met with SJFA and sorted out discipline and fixture scheduling.

[FairWeatherFan]

12 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

It has been acted on though as the SFA have met with SJFA and sorted out discipline and fixture scheduling.

That didn't have anything to do with Maxwell's email in October. It was agreed by the SFA Board that the PWG should work on integrating the Juniors into the Pyramid basically a year ago. Sorting out discipline and fixtures was something they've been told to do ever since.

 

EDIT:

And TJ's email from April saying that the SFA Board approved the Juniors in at Tier 6 as well. Which isn't something that was explicitly stated by the SFA in their email.

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by FairWeatherFan

[superbigal]

It prompted the Maxwell e mail stating that the Juniors were in at tier 6 so someone from the EoSL agreed at the time!

The eos problem was they were in agreement to something that nobody else was talking about (Tayside league which was presumably in someone's head/imagination).
It was not till January minutes that is was obvious they had objections on the actual proposal.
They had October to realise but appeared to be asleep.
Hence my dinosaur comment about one of their representatives on the sub pwg and his apparent cluelessness.

[lowenan]

If Tayside teams are allowed into the pyramid on the Lowland League side, they should also be allowed to play in the EOS if they choose to.

[FairWeatherFan]

21 minutes ago, superbigal said:

The eos problem was they were in agreement to something that nobody else was talking about (Tayside league which was presumably in someone's head/imagination).
It was not till January minutes that is was obvious they had objections on the actual proposal.
They had October to realise but appeared to be asleep.
Hence my dinosaur comment about one of their representatives on the sub pwg and his apparent cluelessness.

We don't actually know what was discussed in the September meeting and how it went. Certainly the EoS side of things was clear over their approval of new West and Tayside leagues.

With the 21st September PWG being Iain Maxwell's first one there are those that have taken the point of view that it was Maxwell that was clueless over what was being discussed. Which is why the October draft statement he wrote was never publicly released.

And when it comes to the most asleep member of the PWG I would suggest that it could be George Fraser who in November is noted as saying:

Quote

GF confirmed that the SLFL will create a set of revised Lower Pyramid Play Off Rules and put a proposal out to all concerned.

But then by January said that it was upto the PWG to come up with a proposal

Quote

IM asked GF to confirm the position with the draft Play Off Rules. GF stated that he would have to get a formal proposal from the working group to proceed. He confirmed that the Play Off Rules need agreement from the East, South, SLFL and the Scottish FA.

 

[boulderdomb]

So what's the latest 753 pages later? Are the juniors integrated yet?

[Talbot 1978]

So what's the latest 753 pages later? Are the juniors integrated yet?

[emoji23]

No one has any idea.

Burnieman is still on meltdown mode at the minute, partially due to not getting full autonomy on here and the recent Scotland results.

[Robert James]

22 hours ago, archieb said:

Whit???

I've rarely read a chunk of a pyramid post that made as little sense as the above - and that's saying something!!!

(1) Fair enough (if eligible)

(2) Why would the winner of such a  4-way play-off then play the HL champions? The LL champions do that ...

(3) ... and then play-off with SPFL club 42 (don't understand the rest of that point at all, it's utter gibberish)

SPFL club 42 don't need to be promoted to the SPFL, they're already there. It's relegation they'd be at risk of.

Also, it's 'conducive' you want, not 'conclusive'.

(2) you are correct

(3) should read "play off with club 42" (for promotion to SPFL, as post states)

[Cameron Wilson]

The fact the SFA (Maxwell) have proposed putting the East juniors in directly at tier 6, shows a total lack of respect for the work of the EoS and yet more proof that the SFA is simply not fit for purpose.

That said, if Maxwell is prepared to ignore the LL / HL dividing line by putting teams north of the tay underneath the LL, then may as well put the ERJFA in at tier 8 underneath the EoS. Problem solved - all the juniors in the pyramid, and no leagues with significant geographic overlaps. Effectively, it would be in all but name an EoS/East Juniors merger, with most of the talking and details sorted out on the football pitch.

Besides, most of the ERJFA teams aren't bothered about progressing up the pyramid anyway - as long as they can stay in their league and play local teams that is all they are really bothered about. So why should they care what tier they enter at?

Any East junior teams who do want to move up the levels already had their chance to move to the EoS - and in fact they still do as we speak right now.

[cmontheloknow]

2 hours ago, Cameron Wilson said:

The fact the SFA (Maxwell) have proposed putting the East juniors in directly at tier 6, shows a total lack of respect for the work of the EoS and yet more proof that the SFA is simply not fit for purpose.

That said, if Maxwell is prepared to ignore the LL / HL dividing line by putting teams north of the tay underneath the LL, then may as well put the ERJFA in at tier 8 underneath the EoS. Problem solved - all the juniors in the pyramid, and no leagues with significant geographic overlaps. Effectively, it would be in all but name an EoS/East Juniors merger, with most of the talking and details sorted out on the football pitch.

Besides, most of the ERJFA teams aren't bothered about progressing up the pyramid anyway - as long as they can stay in their league and play local teams that is all they are really bothered about. So why should they care what tier they enter at?

Any East junior teams who do want to move up the levels already had their chance to move to the EoS - and in fact they still do as we speak right now.

Hanlon's Razer: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

[superbigal]

The fact the SFA (Maxwell) have proposed putting the East juniors in directly at tier 6, shows a total lack of respect for the work of the EoS and yet more proof that the SFA is simply not fit for purpose. That said, if Maxwell is prepared to ignore the LL / HL dividing line by putting teams north of the tay underneath the LL, then may as well put the ERJFA in at tier 8 underneath the EoS. Problem solved - all the juniors in the pyramid, and no leagues with significant geographic overlaps. Effectively, it would be in all but name an EoS/East Juniors merger, with most of the talking and details sorted out on the football pitch. Besides, most of the ERJFA teams aren't bothered about progressing up the pyramid anyway - as long as they can stay in their league and play local teams that is all they are really bothered about. So why should they care what tier they enter at? Any East junior teams who do want to move up the levels already had their chance to move to the EoS - and in fact they still do as we speak right now.

 

 

 

One of the poorest posts on here. No facts or substance to back it up. Full of contradictions.(almost could be Mr Greenhorn joined pandb) Just an apparent big mouth.Why should Lochee or Broughty both decent teams, neither who could join the eos last year be put into a "merger" at a level lower than Eyemouth.Hope any company you work for is not part of a merger. What you describe is an aggressive takeover.  

 

I'm a neutral on this issue reporting facts. You my friend are a fool.

 

 

 

 

 

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 hour ago, superbigal said:

One of the poorest posts on here. No facts or substance to back it up. Full of contradictions.(almost could be Mr Greenhorn joined pandb) Just an apparent big mouth.Why should Lochee or Broughty both decent teams, neither who could join the eos last year be put into a "merger" at a level lower than Eyemouth.Hope any company you work for is not part of a merger. What you describe is an aggressive takeover.  

 

I'm a neutral on this issue reporting facts. You my friend are a fool.

 

 

 

 

 

I think he means west lothian and Fife clubs rather than Tayside.  Most pyramid ers  believe Tayside be feeding the highland league 

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 hour ago, superbigal said:

One of the poorest posts on here. No facts or substance to back it up. Full of contradictions.(almost could be Mr Greenhorn joined pandb) Just an apparent big mouth.Why should Lochee or Broughty both decent teams, neither who could join the eos last year be put into a "merger" at a level lower than Eyemouth.Hope any company you work for is not part of a merger. What you describe is an aggressive takeover.  

 

I'm a neutral on this issue reporting facts. You my friend are a fool.

 

 

 

 

 

John Greenhorn seems to be a scape goat. Heard him being called a dinosaur buy he was a major part in letting g the juniors in 

[Kilbowie Benches]

30 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

John Greenhorn seems to be a scape goat. Heard him being called a dinosaur buy he was a major part in letting g the juniors in 

Why wouldn’t he ?

His league had hardly any teams and it was dross!

[Cameron Wilson]

2 hours ago, superbigal said:

One of the poorest posts on here. No facts or substance to back it up. Full of contradictions.(almost could be Mr Greenhorn joined pandb) Just an apparent big mouth.Why should Lochee or Broughty both decent teams, neither who could join the eos last year be put into a "merger" at a level lower than Eyemouth.Hope any company you work for is not part of a merger. What you describe is an aggressive takeover.  

I'm a neutral on this issue reporting facts. You my friend are a fool.

My post was poorly written and should have been explained more clearly. I meant what I said about the SFA showing a lack of respect for the EoS - assuming it is correct that they are officially backing east juniors in at tier 6, which could be my misunderstanding. But my "merger" proposal was satire which ignored its obvious flaws  to present a daft idea, yet not as daft as the concept of having two leagues at the same tier covering the same area. 

I'll make more effort to be clearer next time.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Cameron Wilson

[Black & Red Socks]

4 hours ago, superbigal said:

I'm a neutral on this issue reporting facts. You my friend are a fool.

I think Cameron's caustic wit might have been entirely lost on you

You have indeed presented some important facts, but by merely reproducing minutes that have come into your possession - the rest is your interpretation of those minutes, which may or may not be accurate. However, your constant mischaracterisation of an EoSFL representative who has done more than most to welcome ex-Junior teams into an excellently run organisation and who, almost single handedly, is responsible for driving a whole host of ground improvements at his own club while simultaneously assisting other clubs in their own quest towards ground improvements and SFA membership is grossly unfair. It's a mischaracterisation formed entirely through an interpretation of the wording of minutes, minutes which, ultimately, are no more than someone else's take on what has been said and what is meant by what has been said.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Black & Red Socks

[superbigal]

1 hour ago, Black & Red Socks said:

I think Cameron's caustic wit might have been entirely lost on you

You have indeed presented some important facts, but by merely reproducing minutes that have come into your possession - the rest is your interpretation of those minutes, which may or may not be accurate. However, your constant mischaracterisation of an EoSFL representative who has done more than most to welcome ex-Junior teams into an excellently run organisation and who, almost single handedly, is responsible for driving a whole host of ground improvements at his own club while simultaneously assisting other clubs in their own quest towards ground improvements and SFA membership is grossly unfair. It's a mischaracterisation formed entirely through an interpretation of the wording of minutes, minutes which, ultimately, are no more than someone else's take on what has been said and what is meant by what has been said.

If you say so and I have no reason to doubt Mr Greenhorn's excellent contribution to those areas. 

However I do not think Mr Greenhorn has helped the EOS much in the PWG sub meetings. I still stand by my assertion he was either asleep on the job or did not comprehend what was on offer from the SFA. 

I also mentioned and I accept this was from a junior source,  that he was poorly portrayed even by the Eos Secretary Mr Baxter at the recent meeting with the East region. Again potentially just point scoring by Tom Johnston and not really helping matters along.  Just saying what i was told.

[Cameron Wilson]

1 hour ago, Black & Red Socks said:

I think Cameron's caustic wit might have been entirely lost on you

You have indeed presented some important facts, but by merely reproducing minutes that have come into your possession - the rest is your interpretation of those minutes, which may or may not be accurate. However, your constant mischaracterisation of an EoSFL representative who has done more than most to welcome ex-Junior teams into an excellently run organisation and who, almost single handedly, is responsible for driving a whole host of ground improvements at his own club while simultaneously assisting other clubs in their own quest towards ground improvements and SFA membership is grossly unfair. It's a mischaracterisation formed entirely through an interpretation of the wording of minutes, minutes which, ultimately, are no more than someone else's take on what has been said and what is meant by what has been said.

To be fair it was my bad it was not clear at all what was serious and what was not. I think Bigal was not the only one who read it a different way than was intended. A lot has been said about personal bickering on this thread, but I prefer to just focus on the football talk as much as possible. Besides, as far as I can tell, I think the vast majority of posters on here would get along just fine talking about all of this over some pints or even a dram or two.

Hope the ERJFA and EoS try doing just that!