Junior football, what is the future?

[corner]

40 minutes ago, Talbot 1978 said:

The crowds and set up in the west isn't affected so no big issues for us.

 

<- sound of penny dropping ->

[santheman]

4 minutes ago, corner said:

<- sound of penny dropping ->

You certainly like your punctuation marks

[corner]

1 hour ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

Hurting? Are you?
Oh dear.
Or is it just past your bedtime?

Actually, banter apart, I think it’s great that we have finally got here, and I do expect you West chaps to be leading the charge up the levels

 

Exciting times 

 

 

 

[Robert James]

6 hours ago, stanley said:

No more separate junior system then.  Welcome to the seniors everyone (except the forgotten north obviously).

...."everyone  except the north"  !

Not just the north juniors, as the NCL will want pyramid status, IF the North Juniors are admitted in 2020/21.

[the jambo-rocker]

That's the difference though. The West Region isn't running scared, like the EOSFL is.

Just coasting in by default with total indifference, while the Eosfl get shafted.

[Robert James]

13 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

13 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Because we are still at the stage where they are trying to do things by consensus, and what will make it untenable moving forward is that the LL will want to change the pro/rel equation into the SPFL.

Don't think it's tenable for there to be only one club promoted once the WRSJFA are involved, and if the SFA Board are about to override objections, they can also address that.

It seems to be the majority view on here, is that the SFA Board do have override powers, but if they are going to exercise them at tier 5 (SLL) and tier 6 (EoS), they would also have to override the SPFL as well,  to implement the automatic relegation of club 42 (at tier 4), and replace them by the Highland/Lowland champions' playoff.  They won't bite the bullet !

Furthermore, it would be insane to have a pyramid with over 100 clubs at tiers 5 - 8,  and then have

(1) play-offs , between the  champions of 4 separate Lowland feeder leagues (EoSL, SoSL, WRJL & ERJL), followed by

(2) a play-off with the Highland League champions, followed by 

(3) a play-off  with SPFL Club 42, followed  by victory for the non-league play-off ,  but only if they win.

The SPFL will  disagree with club 42 gaining automatic promotion to the SPFL, so we will be in deadlock.

Outcome IMO is, that there will be a massive logjam at the top of the pyramid, and also new steps being taken, to give protection to  club 42, each year. Hardly conclusive to having a fluid and effective pyramid.

 

 

[Robert James]

47 minutes ago, the jambo-rocker said:

5 hours ago, Beenzon-Toste said:

That's the difference though. The West Region isn't running scared, like the EOSFL is.

Just coasting in by default with total indifference, while the Eosfl get shafted.

I don't support the ERJFA clubs (south of the Tay) being given tier 6 status.  Utter stupidity to have 2 pyramid feeder leagues in the same geographical area. The EoSL is already the pyramid feeder league, and it should remain as the ONLY east feeder league (below the Tay.)

The situation in the north is very different as the north juniors, and the NCL cover different regions, and my caveat was "NCL to join,  IF the North Region Juniors (also) join the pyramid.  Unlikely at present, I am sure you will agree.

[archieb]

2 hours ago, Robert James said:

It seems to be the majority view on here, is that the SFA Board do have override powers, but if they are going to exercise them at tier 5 (SLL) and tier 6 (EoS), they would also have to override the SPFL as well,  to implement the automatic relegation of club 42 (at tier 4), and replace them by the Highland/Lowland champions' playoff.  They won't bite the bullet !

Furthermore, it would be insane to have a pyramid with over 100 clubs at tiers 5 - 8,  and then have

(1) play-offs , between the  champions of 4 separate Lowland feeder leagues (EoSL, SoSL, WRJL & ERJL), followed by

(2) a play-off with the Highland League champions, followed by 

(3) a play-off  with SPFL Club 42, followed  by victory for the non-league play-off ,  but only if they win.

The SPFL will  disagree with club 42 gaining automatic promotion to the SPFL, so we will be in deadlock.

Outcome IMO is, that there will be a massive logjam at the top of the pyramid, and also new steps being taken, to give protection to  club 42, each year. Hardly conclusive to having a fluid and effective pyramid.

Whit???

I've rarely read a chunk of a pyramid post that made as little sense as the above - and that's saying something!!!

(1) Fair enough (if eligible)

(2) Why would the winner of such a  4-way play-off then play the HL champions? The LL champions do that ...

(3) ... and then play-off with SPFL club 42 (don't understand the rest of that point at all, it's utter gibberish)

SPFL club 42 don't need to be promoted to the SPFL, they're already there. It's relegation they'd be at risk of.

Also, it's 'conducive' you want, not 'conclusive'.

Edited March 24, 2019 by archieb

[LongTimeLurker]

It will be interesting to see if they do have override powers where the lower portions of the pyramid are concerned as comments made by Ian Maxwell and Tom Johnston in the PWG minutes definitely seemed to imply. They don't over the SPFL part of the equation as their role there is only to identify which club plays off against team 42.

[superbigal]

Ok I was just checking my posting record so I thought I would reply. On this thread since the Start of February I have made something like 70 posts so averaging between 1-2 per day. Out of those posts can you please post the ones where you think I have been stirring the pot as superbigass seems to claim I have been.
I will treat the bit in bold with the contempt it deserves coming from you.

That's not you winding up the fauldhouse boys is it?
Course not.
Must be the truth 🤣🤣🤣

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

It will be interesting to see if they do have override powers where the lower portions of the pyramid are concerned as comments made by Ian Maxwell and Tom Johnston in the PWG minutes definitely seemed to imply. They don't over the SPFL part of the equation as their role there is only to identify which club plays off against team 42.

I doubt if they know themselves what the rules are.

[Guest]

To be clear the sfa cannot make the LL change their feeder league or relegation set up. They also cannot tell the LL how to set up their relegation and promotion spots and what leagues to accept as their feeders. This is and has always been the LL that do this through the agreement of their member clubs and the feeder leagues already in place (LL and SOS). 

The SFA can though put the sjfa into the 'pyramid' as they are. The ersjfa in the east and the wrsjfa in the west. Although this does not guarantee entry to the LL or the LL playoffs for either. The LL would have to change this with the agreement of their own teams and those in the current pyramid. Hence my suggestion that the SFA can in fact (in theory anyway) place the sjfa where they like..... This though doesn't mean they will be part of the pyramid without the agreement of 100% of the current membership...... That is, has and will continue to be the sticking point in this whole debacle. 

[Kilbowie Benches]

17 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Current SFA Board:

Alan McRae (Chair and Scottish FA President) (standing down)
Rod Petrie (Scottish FA Vice-President) (expected to be nominated unopposed for President, which leaves position vacant)
Ian Maxwell (Scottish FA Chief Executive)
Neil Doncaster (Professional Game Board Representative) (requires an annual nomination)
Mike Mulraney (Professional Game Board Representative) (requires an annual nomination)
Thomas McKeown (Non-Professional Game Board) (requires an annual nomination)
Ana Stewart (Independent Non-Executive Director)

Not entirely sure they will push something through against the will of the 21 current members in the Lowland League and EoS.

The SFA Board don’t need the permission of LL/EoSL clubs.The board can make the changes required.

Someone from the EoSL agreed to the Juniors  joining in October and it went to the SFA board for them to agree,which they did.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Kilbowie Benches

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

The SFA Board don’t need the permission of LL/EoSL clubs.The board can make the changes required.

Someone from the EoSL agreed to the Juniors  joining in October and it went to the SFA board for them to agree,which they did.

Difference being though Kilbowie they didnt demand it to happen they were given their place and asked for objection..... They can't demand things change without the leagues consent when it suits, after allowing a league to run itself because it didnt suit them to run it at the time..... 

I can't see the issue for the ersjfa coming in at tier 7 given they have changed their structure for a more regional set up next season. Why can't they come into the tier 7 set up with the eosfl? It wouldn't increase travel much, it certainly wouldn't lower the standard any..... and for those north of the tay I have no ideas as the line is pretty hard to adjust without impacting on everything. 

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

The SFA Board don’t need the permission of LL/EoSL clubs.The board can make the changes required.

Someone from the EoSL agreed to the Juniors  joining in October and it went to the SFA board for them to agree,which they did.

I'm not saying they need permssion, i'm saying they might be weary of annoying the members that can swing votes on them reclaiming their spot on the Board for another year.

Are the current Board going to try and force something through in April ostracising SFA members heading inth the AGM in June? I personally don't think so, it's no different than when people have suggested that the SFA can simply disband the SJFA and force them into the pyramid. Something they had the power to do but never have.

 

[Kilbowie Benches]

34 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I'm not saying they need permssion, i'm saying they might be weary of annoying the members that can swing votes on them reclaiming their spot on the Board for another year.

Are the current Board going to try and force something through in April ostracising SFA members heading inth the AGM in June? I personally don't think so, it's no different than when people have suggested that the SFA can simply disband the SJFA and force them into the pyramid. Something they had the power to do but never have.

 

In regards to the pyramid it’s the SFA that are driving it.Its not a good look for a league to be agreeing to something then going back on it.It has to be remembered of course that the SoSL have no objections to the Juniors coming in at tier 6.

[lowenan]

At least if you get four divisions at level 6 now, it opens up for Lowland League Division One West and Division One East at level 6 instead, from 2020/21. Baby steps.

Edited March 24, 2019 by lowenan

[FairWeatherFan]

3 hours ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

In regards to the pyramid it’s the SFA that are driving it.Its not a good look for a league to be agreeing to something then going back on it.It has to be remembered of course that the SoSL have no objections to the Juniors coming in at tier 6.

Can't really call it driving when you've got the hand brake on. As for the EoS from the few sources when it has been brought up they've always had objections to the East Region coming at Tier 6 in it's current form. The main PWG minutes that cover the matter to what would have been agreed to would be September's as that's what the PGB acted on. All we know from September was conflicting reports over the EoS saying Tayside League at Tier 6 and Juniors saying it was the existing East Superleague.

[Kilbowie Benches]

4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Can't really call it driving when you've got the hand brake on. As for the EoS from the few sources when it has been brought up they've always had objections to the East Region coming at Tier 6 in it's current form. The main PWG minutes that cover the matter to what would have been agreed to would be September's as that's what the PGB acted on. All we know from September was conflicting reports over the EoS saying Tayside League at Tier 6 and Juniors saying it was the existing East Superleague.

It prompted the Maxwell e mail stating that the Juniors were in at tier 6 so someone from the EoSL agreed at the time!

[joe hunter]

What has happened at Petershill ?  Used to watch the peesy years ago but near the bottom of the league now.