Junior football, what is the future?

[superbigal]

Restructure of East Will happen. I will put my house on it.  It will be to the North/South Super/Premier option.

I am led to believe the Supers prime plan will be 10 teams North & South, regardless of how many teams are in the whole organisation. That in effect would give them 20 tier 6 members and the rest tier 7 (as things sort of currently stand in their eyes)

Those numbers may need tweaks. I suspect those will be left till total member teams are more clearcut. Even a hofwit realises 2x10 is not viable if there were only say 35 teams in total.

It is still possible if they are decimated that there will be only 2 Leagues (North & South Super).  That would means every ERSJFA team would be on a level footing in Tier 6 of the Pyramid (as things sort of currently stand in their eyes). That in itself is a massive downer with no relegation, but on the flipside it puts Coupar Angus or new applicants on a level footing with the likes of Newtongrange, Musselburgh etc next season.

So it is entirely possible both Boness teams could be tier 6 next season !!

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by superbigal

[Robert James]

1 minute ago, Duraglit shareholder said:

Talbot used to be the tiny fish in the pond, but the hard work by everyone involved at Beechwood over the past 30 plus years have made us the big fish, are we to say sorry for that? You make it sound that its easy to win cups and leagues at our level, i can assure  you its not, we play against very good teams week in week out and a very good Beith side pipped us for the league last season.If you mean the higher level to be the lowland league, its my opinion that teams in the west premiership juniors  are better teams than whats currently in lowland and some in SPL 2.

Are you  in favour of  Talbot, Beith, Pollok, etc, joining the pyramid ? 

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, Duraglit shareholder said:

If you mean the higher level to be the lowland league, its my opinion that teams in the west premiership juniors  are better teams than whats currently in lowland and some in SPL 2.

Haven't Talbot lost to Cumbernauld Colts and Edinburgh City (when LL), and had BSC take them to a replay in the Scottish? The top 8/10 teams in the LL are better quality than you give them credit for. I guess there's only one way to prove it.

[Duraglit shareholder]

58 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Are you  in favour of  Talbot, Beith, Pollok, etc, joining the pyramid ? 

No, i think the product we have in the west is good, check out goals from Talbot v Pollok last week. I can leave the house with ￡10 pay in and have my pie and bovril, i can attend both home and away fixtures that doesnt amount to serious travelling.The teams you mention imo would or could win the lowland league and gain entry to SPL, im afraid i wouldnt be able to afford to follow Talbot to such places as Elgin or Peterheard and would be resigned mostly to only watching Talbot at home, i believe many fans  would be in the same boat.

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, superbigal said:

Restructure of East Will happen. I will put my house on it.  It will be to the North/South Super/Premier option.

I am led to believe the Supers prime plan will be 10 teams North & South, regardless of how many teams are in the whole organisation. That in effect would give them 20 tier 6 members and the rest tier 7 (as things sort of currently stand in their eyes)

Those numbers may need tweaks. I suspect those will be left till total member teams are more clearcut. Even a hofwit realises 2x10 is not viable if there were only say 35 teams in total.

It is still possible if they are decimated that there will be only 2 Leagues (North & South Super).  That would means every ERSJFA team would be on a level footing in Tier 6 of the Pyramid (as things sort of currently stand in their eyes). That in itself is a massive downer with no relegation, but on the flipside it puts Coupar Angus or new applicants on a level footing with the likes of Newtongrange, Musselburgh etc next season.

So it is entirely possible both Boness teams could be tier 6 next season !!

 

From what I was shown, option A has only 9 clubs in the South Super, and 8 clubs in the South Premier.

[Duraglit shareholder]

4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Haven't Talbot lost to Cumbernauld Colts and Edinburgh City (when LL), and had BSC take them to a replay in the Scottish? The top 8/10 teams in the LL are better quality than you give them credit for. I guess there's only one way to prove it.

One off games, are you saying Talbot are Championship level after beating Ayr.

[Jason King]

5 minutes ago, Duraglit shareholder said:

No, i think the product we have in the west is good, check out goals from Talbot v Pollok last week. I can leave the house with ￡10 pay in and have my pie and bovril, i can attend both home and away fixtures that doesnt amount to serious travelling.The teams you mention imo would or could win the lowland league and gain entry to SPL, im afraid i wouldnt be able to afford to follow Talbot to such places as Elgin or Peterheard and would be resigned mostly to only watching Talbot at home, i believe many fans  would be in the same boat.

If the West doesnt join the pyramid the better players will continue to migrate to the LL and that will reduce the quality you are watching. Its simply a case of join the pyramid or stagnate and then watch as the Juniors becomes a far inferior product to what is on offer elsewhere.  Standards are clearly dropping in the West as the likes of BSC and EK pick up some of the cream and that is only going to increase over time.

If fans of Stranraer and Berwick can afford to go to Elgin then its laughable to suggest that Talbot couldnt put on a bus to those places at an apposite price. There will be many fans who would love an awayday at Peterhead or Elgin.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Jason King

[superbigal]

4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

From what I was shown, option A has only 9 clubs in the South Super, and 8 clubs in the South Premier.

Entirely possible but was certainly not the original plan A

Certainly would make the H & A twice option more manageable.  Potentially 32 & 28  games before the winner plays off to then compete in the "Lower Playoff".

Edited March 12, 2019 by superbigal

[Burnie_man]

Just now, Duraglit shareholder said:

One off games, are you saying Talbot are Championship level after beating Ayr.

Well three games, if Talbot go on to beat Queen of the South and Dunfermline then perhaps.

The point is of course, is that you've not had it all your own way when you have faced LL clubs, how Clydebank, Beith, Kilbirnie etc would fare who knows, we may find out in the coming years. 

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, superbigal said:

Entirely possible but was certainly not the original plan A

Certainly would make the H & A twice option more manageable.  Potentially 32 & 28  games before the winner plays off to then compete in the "Lower Playoff".

It was altered after Glenrothes announced they were joining EoS.

[Kilbowie Benches]

4 minutes ago, Jason King said:

If the West doesnt join the pyramid the better players will continue to migrate to the LL and that will reduce the quality you are watching. Its simply a case of join the pyramid or stagnate and then watch as the Juniors becomes a far inferior product to what is on offer elsewhere.  Standards are clearly dropping in the West as the likes of BSC and EK pick up some of the cream and that is only going to increase over time.

If fans of Stranraer and Berwick can afford to go to Elgin then its laughable to suggest that Talbot couldnt put on a bus to those places at an apposite price. There will be many fans who would love an awayday at Peterhead or Elgin.

How many fans do you think follow Stranraer and Berwick to Elgin and Peterhead?

[Arthurlie1981]

If the West doesnt join the pyramid the better players will continue to migrate to the LL and that will reduce the quality you are watching. Its simply a case of join the pyramid or stagnate and then watch as the Juniors becomes a far inferior product to what is on offer elsewhere.  Standards are clearly dropping in the West as the likes of BSC and EK pick up some of the cream and that is only going to increase over time.
If fans of Stranraer and Berwick can afford to go to Elgin then its laughable to suggest that Talbot couldnt put on a bus to those places at an apposite price. There will be many fans who would love an awayday at Peterhead or Elgin.

Have they picked up the cream of the West? Who are these stars? The standards have been in the drop for a long time before the LL came along. The LL is a good standard but to say it’s better than the West Region is unprovable argument.

[Jason King]

3 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

How many fans do you think follow Stranraer and Berwick to Elgin and Peterhead?

Whats that got to do with the price of fish?

Real fans will continue to support their club, those that are stuck on a "grade" will come up with excuses as to why their club shouldnt move forward.

[Jason King]

1 minute ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

Have they picked up the cream of the West? Who are these stars? The standards have been in the drop for a long time before the LL came along. The LL is a good standard but to say it’s better than the West Region is unprovable argument.

 

Look at their squads, generally all players that would have at one time dropped out of the SPFL into the Junior top level or players that would still be top level in the West - now they dont come to/stay at the likes of Pollok or Hurlford, they choose to stay Senior and weaker players drop into the top level junior leagues.

[Kilbowie Benches]

13 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Whats that got to do with the price of fish?

Real fans will continue to support their club, those that are stuck on a "grade" will come up with excuses as to why their club shouldnt move forward.

You said that it doesn’t stop fans of those clubs affording to go to those games that’s why!

[Marten]

1 hour ago, superbigal said:

Restructure of East Will happen. I will put my house on it.  It will be to the North/South Super/Premier option.

I am led to believe the Supers prime plan will be 10 teams North & South, regardless of how many teams are in the whole organisation. That in effect would give them 20 tier 6 members and the rest tier 7 (as things sort of currently stand in their eyes)

Those numbers may need tweaks. I suspect those will be left till total member teams are more clearcut. Even a hofwit realises 2x10 is not viable if there were only say 35 teams in total.

It is still possible if they are decimated that there will be only 2 Leagues (North & South Super).  That would means every ERSJFA team would be on a level footing in Tier 6 of the Pyramid (as things sort of currently stand in their eyes). That in itself is a massive downer with no relegation, but on the flipside it puts Coupar Angus or new applicants on a level footing with the likes of Newtongrange, Musselburgh etc next season.

So it is entirely possible both Boness teams could be tier 6 next season !!

 

Even though I understand why that's a possibility, I don't think it would be desirable. The "north" in the ERJFA has major differences in standards. I wouldn't like to see a league in which the likes of Lochee & Broughty play the weaker North Premier sides, especially Coupar Angus & Forfar Albion. Regular double figure hammerings are not desirable imo. 

[PastyMan]

18 minutes ago, Marten said:

Even though I understand why that's a possibility, I don't think it would be desirable. The "north" in the ERJFA has major differences in standards. I wouldn't like to see a league in which the likes of Lochee & Broughty play the weaker North Premier sides, especially Coupar Angus & Forfar Albion. Regular double figure hammerings are not desirable imo. 

Without promotion/relegation/progression the single tier league options sounds very unappealing beyond a single season

[The Mantis]

2 hours ago, Duraglit shareholder said:

Talbot used to be the tiny fish in the pond, but the hard work by everyone involved at Beechwood over the past 30 plus years have made us the big fish, are we to say sorry for that? You make it sound that its easy to win cups and leagues at our level, i can assure  you its not, we play against very good teams week in week out and a very good Beith side pipped us for the league last season.If you mean the higher level to be the lowland league, its my opinion that teams in the west premiership juniors  are better teams than whats currently in lowland and some in SPL 2.

Cheers for that, but I’m depressed now 

What an incredibly defensive post.

First, everybody knows Talbot are a big club, it’s been achieved by hard work and not by a sugar daddy, so it’s sustainable. But your post is just a variation on ‘we’re happy winning every week’. It’s hard winning trophies at ANY level. Your humble beginnings are irrelevant- you are where you are. What are you afraid of? Btw I watch the West Premier when I get a chance, I know it’s a strong league.

Second, you seem to be implying that Largs and Petershill are playing at a higher level than Albion Rovers and Berwick (apologies if not). My view is that almost every West team would finish bottom of SPFL2 after 36 games. I used to watch Caley who had a far better cup record than Talbot. But they still found it tough the first season they stepped up.

Third, you’re making the common mistake of looking down on teams you don’t come up against regularly. The LL has less depth than your league but the top 3 or 4 are much of a muchness. I see there’s been a few replies so no point in going over the old ground about one-off games. Same goes for SPFL2 teams. It’s fashionable to sneer at them but they tend to be professionally run.  For every Medda 1 Arbroath 0 or Bo’ness 5 Elgin 4, there’s a Bo’ness 0 Arbroath 5. Talbot beat Ayr but they’d never managed to beat a league team before that, ever.

Edited March 12, 2019 by The Mantis

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

How many fans do you think follow Stranraer and Berwick to Elgin and Peterhead?

Motherwell and Celtic are 11 miles apart and yet Motherwell took 147 away fans to Celtic last month, there’s no merit to your line of argument over this. Some clubs have fans that’ll travel everywhere, others dont.

[Kilbowie Benches]

10 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Motherwell and Celtic are 11 miles apart and yet Motherwell took 147 away fans to Celtic last month, there’s no merit to your line of argument over this. Some clubs have fans that’ll travel everywhere, others dont.

There is as I would guess that Talbot wouldn’t have anywhere near the same travelling  support at Elgin or Peterhead which is what the Talbot fan was saying!

Its rubbish to suggest otherwise.