Junior football, what is the future?

[Sidney Lumet]

28 minutes ago, Marten said:

That alone shows why it's madness to have 2 different non-league systems in the same area, regardless whether or not they are in the pyramid. Results like Coupar Angus 0-18 Broughty Athletic a few weeks ago are not what we need. The point of a pyramid is not just to give teams the chance to move up. It's about teams being able to play football at what's the right level for them. Having 2 18 team junior leagues in the east would in my opinion have too big difference in standard between teams in the same division. The teams south of the Tay are far better off in the EOS, the poorer junior teams would get more competitive games against the likes of Inverkeithing than getting a drubbing by Fauldhouse or Kennoway imo.

In the same way there should be a proper pyramid access for the teams north of the Tay divide as well.

This pretty much sums up the potential folly of any move to regionalise the east Juniors into two, eighteen team leagues - if that has indeed been proposed at last nights meeting. Three, twelve team leagues could also be imprudent as such a set-up is unlikely to provide enough league fixtures (or a horrible imbalance if teams have to play each other three times) for those involved. All of this on top of absolutely no variety in terms of fixtures year on year if there is no turnover of teams through relegation and promotion, something that can't happen without access to the Pyramid, access that is uncertain at best and highly unlikely at worst.

[glensmad]

Moving back to the West, from what I understand of what took place at the recent Management Meetings and General Meeting, the West is moving forward at full speed towards joining the pyramid this summer. There appears to be no doubt at this side of the country in terms of the people in charge of the region and what the clubs are being told.

I recognise that there are big questions that need answered regarding the East and the North.

I'm speculating without any firm knowledge on this point, but perhaps the West have been assured that they will be in the pyramid this summer regardless of what happens in the other regions ?

[Black & Red Socks]

21 minutes ago, Sidney Lumet said:

This pretty much sums up the potential folly of any move to regionalise the east Juniors into two, eighteen team leagues - if that has indeed been proposed at last nights meeting. Three, twelve team leagues could also be imprudent as such a set-up is unlikely to provide enough league fixtures (or a horrible imbalance if teams have to play each other three times) for those involved. All of this on top of absolutely no variety in terms of fixtures year on year if there is no turnover of teams through relegation and promotion, something that can't happen without access to the Pyramid, access that is uncertain at best and highly unlikely at worst.

Precisely. Which is exactly why the ERSJFA clubs south of the Tay, and particularly the West Lothian clubs, surely must be aiming to engage with the EoSFL ahead of their March deadline with a view to making the move into the EoSFL for the 2019/20 season? Re-establishing just recently lost rivalries with Edinburgh and East Lothian teams as well as retaining most West Lothian rivalries should others move too, while having the opportunity to face new teams - yes, there will be a little travel involved, but not unlike what it was in the ERSJFA before this season and certainly not as much as is being expected of the West Lothian teams in the Super League this season - is surely an attractive proposition? As has already been said, the prospect of promotion and advancement in the Pyramid is also there should a team want it and be good enough to pursue it.

It really is all in their own hands.

[AlanCamelonfan]

14 minutes ago, glensmad said:

Moving back to the West, from what I understand of what took place at the recent Management Meetings and General Meeting, the West is moving forward at full speed towards joining the pyramid this summer. There appears to be no doubt at this side of the country in terms of the people in charge of the region and what the clubs are being told.

I recognise that there are big questions that need answered regarding the East and the North.

I'm speculating without any firm knowledge on this point, but perhaps the West have been assured that they will be in the pyramid this summer regardless of what happens in the other regions ?

It would be good and what we want. The east is the problem 

[Whitburn Vale]

53 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Armadale and whitburn had 100 for a derby game I'm sure they wouldn't be bringing much to Camelon 

I was at it alan,there wasnt much more than that at it.

The level of support for whitburn has dropped big style in the last few yrs,but heh ho the committee arent for changing.

I wont be back as long as they stay junior.

[Marten]

19 minutes ago, glensmad said:

Moving back to the West, from what I understand of what took place at the recent Management Meetings and General Meeting, the West is moving forward at full speed towards joining the pyramid this summer. There appears to be no doubt at this side of the country in terms of the people in charge of the region and what the clubs are being told.

I recognise that there are big questions that need answered regarding the East and the North.

I'm speculating without any firm knowledge on this point, but perhaps the West have been assured that they will be in the pyramid this summer regardless of what happens in the other regions ?

That last point is interesting, as this would suggest that the SJFA won't move in one big block. There will be leagues within the same organisation that are and aren't in the pyramid. I'd be very happy if the west joins, regardless of the situation elsewhere, but it would be an interesting situation for sure.

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

This is all getting a bit ugly.

I for one hope that the likes of Whitburn, Fauldhouse and Armadale get on board and all these teams playing each other again.

What people miss is that a lot of the nostalgia for the juniors is pre Superleague when the Tayside clubs especially didn't feature and limited travel. Ironically it's the EoS that at the moment is going to deliver an old John Walker League as its premier competition next year. I think it'll be a bumper year for those in it given the distance apart of the clubs.

It's a shame that some of the above won't also be in the mix.

The sooner this all merges the better.

[Jason King]

10 hours ago, jackjarviscraiglang said:

Ha ha ha, gogsy, you didn’t read post right. I said COLLECTIVELY, meaning whole league. Apart from aforementioned teams, Armadale, Whitburn, Fauldhouse, Bathgate would INDIVIDUALLY bring more fans to each game, meaning more revenue. You talk and post a lot on this JUNIOR site but most of it is SHITE

Bathgate struggle to get fans for home games, they'd be lucky to take a tandem of fans to an away game from what I've seen of them over the last couple of years.

[Jason King]

34 minutes ago, glensmad said:

I'm speculating without any firm knowledge on this point, but perhaps the West have been assured that they will be in the pyramid this summer regardless of what happens in the other regions ?

I've been under that impression for several months.

[glensmad]

1 minute ago, Jason King said:

I've been under that impression for several months.

It does appear to be the case, although some official clarification from the SFA or SJFA would be helpful to remove any lingering doubts.

 

[GNU_Linux]

That last point is interesting, as this would suggest that the SJFA won't move in one big block. There will be leagues within the same organisation that are and aren't in the pyramid. I'd be very happy if the west joins, regardless of the situation elsewhere, but it would be an interesting situation for sure.

The question remains how will the sjfa handle managing & admining two different sets of rules fof its clubs. West will be bound directly by sfa rules but east/north those of the sjfa.

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 minute ago, GNU_Linux said:

20 minutes ago, Marten said:

That last point is interesting, as this would suggest that the SJFA won't move in one big block. There will be leagues within the same organisation that are and aren't in the pyramid. I'd be very happy if the west joins, regardless of the situation elsewhere, but it would be an interesting situation for sure.

The question remains how will the sjfa handle managing & admining two different sets of rules fof its clubs. West will be bound directly by sfa rules but east/north those of the sjfa.

Unless they just switch to sfa rules anyway

[AlanCamelonfan]

21 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

I was at it alan,there wasnt much more than that at it.

The level of support for whitburn has dropped big style in the last few yrs,but heh ho the committee arent for changing.

I wont be back as long as they stay junior.

Have you told the committen that. Theirs a man cones to my work on a Saturday morning and says it's actually exactly like when the super league happened and they didn't join.

[Whitburn Vale]

Had an argument in the social club with one of the committee at the end of the year when i was at nite out in there.

He quips about travelling to Coldstream etc and playing derbies......,i laughed and said aye cos carnoustie and broughty ferry are close right enough 

It is the same as when the super league was set up,they declined to join and were left out in the cold for 5 yrs!!

Absolute dinosaurs one and all !!

[Black & Red Socks]

56 minutes ago, glensmad said:

I recognise that there are big questions that need answered regarding the East and the North.

I'm speculating without any firm knowledge on this point, but perhaps the West have been assured that they will be in the pyramid this summer regardless of what happens in the other regions ?

It would be a difficult one to comprehend if this were the case as I understood that the SJFA were mandated by the teams to negotiate Pyramid entry for all, not just for some? However, if a negotiated WRSJFA entry alone were to turn out to be so then it is all the more reason for teams in the east below the Tay, ambitious or otherwise, to be looking at a move to the EoSFL sooner rather than later as opposed to being left behind by such a large and important number of their fellow Juniors.

There has always been a west-centric feel to the SJFA so what you speculate over wouldn't be a huge surprise though.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Black & Red Socks

[AlanCamelonfan]

14 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Had an argument in the social club with one of the committee at the end of the year when i was at nite out in there.

He quips about travelling to Coldstream etc and playing derbies......,i laughed and said aye cos carnoustie and broughty ferry are close right enough 

It is the same as when the super league was set up,they declined to join and were left out in the cold for 5 yrs!!

Absolute dinosaurs one and all !!

Coldstream Eyemouth and Tweedmouth 3 out liers you might not have carnoustie broughty and Lochee you would be facing all the time if super league stayed as is

[AlanCamelonfan]

14 minutes ago, gogsy said:

If its three EOS conferences next season, I'm looking forward to the Midlands (Fife/Perthshire )conference.

 

 

Not looking likely since they are scared of trips to Coldstream 

[Robert James]

44 minutes ago, Black & Red Socks said:

It would be a difficult one to comprehend if this were the case as I understood that the SJFA were mandated by the teams to negotiate Pyramid entry for all, not just for some? However, if a negotiated WRSJFA entry alone were to turn out to be so then it is all the more reason for teams in the east below the Tay, ambitious or otherwise, to be looking at a move to the EoSFL sooner rather than later as opposed to being left behind by such a large and important number of their fellow Juniors.

There has always been a west-centric feel to the SJFA so what you speculate over wouldn't be a huge surprise though.

The distance from Dundee to Aberdeen is (officially) 66 miles via the A90.  Hardly worth worrying about for clubs in an SJFA Superleague !

Why doesn't the  SJFA actively promote a restructuring between the North Juniors and the north of Tayside Juniors by :

1. creating a Superleague comprised of the best 6 to 8 teams from each of these 2 regions

2. restructuring the remaining clubs in these 2 regions which includes new '2nd & 3rd divisions' for Tayside clubs, parallel with the existing  divisions in the north

3. merging the 2 Associations into a new North East regional junior league, ideally in the pyramid.

In my opinion, this is the best way forward, and it would produce a stronger Superleague for the clubs concerned, which does not require an SFA "boundary change", and would be at Tier 6 in the pyramid.  The HFL would have difficulty in resisting this restructuring, which would open up the pyramid throughout the Highlands/north of Scotland, and provide balance throughout the pyramid. Montrose Roselea seem to have benefited from its move from the ERJFA to the NRJFA.

The remaining ERJFA clubs (south of the Tay) could then be given the following options :

4. join the EoL at tier 7  or 8 as appropriate

OR

5. join the WRJFA  (might be preferable) for some Junior die-hards)

OR

6. a combination of both, with each club determining its own future (unhindered).
 

This would surely put an end to the East & North dilemmas/apparent 'stalemate' ?

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by Robert James
typo error

[AlanCamelonfan]

In thinking about it. Jc said last night one of the options  so nothing set in stone some of fife teams like glenrothes might prefer what they have just now so might not go along with this 2 leagues of 18 and it could lead to west lothian clubs getting voted against.

[Robert James]

1 minute ago, gogsy said:

Because none of the mad North of Tayside juniors want it?

Have they been asked, or is this 'forbidden fruit', ie retention of the NRJFA and the ERJFA as separate associations, is sacrosanct ?