Junior football, what is the future?

[stanley]

6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I think allowing the ERJFA in next season on the clear proviso that there is complete integration the following season is one of the ways forward, however the HL/LL boundary line issue needs to be resolved first, and you'd need to agree on how to do it obviously.  Clubs will only take so many "transition" seasons, and for EoS clubs they'll probably want next season to be the last.

As for the suggestion that there should be a new Association formed in the east, why? From an EoSFL perspective they have already demonstrated that they can cope with the influx of 25 Junior teams, they can cope with another similar influx. I doubt they would want to disband solely to accomodate more Junior clubs, something they have already done, and done well. 

If this is to happen it needs to start now, but the SJFA will ensure they plough there own furrow for the time being trying to get in en-masse and ignoring the presence of the EoS.

I don't really mind what organisation the clubs end up in.  I think that the priority is all clubs ending up in the same one.  If the juniors have to give up their organisation then maybe the seniors give up their one too.  I doubt it will happen but I was simply replying to another poster who suggested it.  EoS or new organisation, it didn't really matter.  Very few of the existing EoS clubs have a long history in the EoS.

No real need to do away with the EoS but everyone being in a new merged one with no claims to one side having "won" is one potential solution.  Not the most realistic and too many conflicts for it to happen but still a potential option.

Any merger right now on juniors and seniors clearly wouldn't be equal.  Would have to be smaller number of east juniors in the top league considering most of their best clubs have already moved to the EoS and obviously the Tayside issue is still to be resolved.

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, stanley said:

I don't really mind what organisation the clubs end up in.  I think that the priority is all clubs ending up in the same one.  If the juniors have to give up their organisation then maybe the seniors give up their one too.  I doubt it will happen but I was simply replying to another poster who suggested it.  EoS or new organisation, it didn't really matter.  Very few of the existing EoS clubs have a long history in the EoS.

No real need to do away with the EoS but everyone being in a new merged one with no claims to one side having "won" is one potential solution.  Not the most realistic and too many conflicts for it to happen but still a potential option.

Any merger right now on juniors and seniors clearly wouldn't be equal.  Would have to be smaller number of east juniors in the top league considering most of their best clubs have already moved to the EoS and obviously the Tayside issue is still to be resolved.

That's why mergers are difficult, and take a long time to get done.

Best course of action is for the SFA to tell the SJFA that the West and North can be accomodated intact largely on their terms, but in the East their members will need to move to the EoS as the existing league in the Pyramid, and a solution found for the Tayside issue.  That probably wont happen either. 

The new season kicks-off in 6 months time, the EoS application deadline is less than 8 weeks away.  There is little time to get this all over the line for next season.

[lowenan]

East Super League 2017/18:

1    Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic    EOSFL
2    Linlithgow Rose        EOSFL
3    Penicuik Athletic    EOSFL
4    Dundonald Bluebell     EOSFL
5    Broxburn Athletic    EOSFL
6    Lochee United    ERSJFA
7    Hill of Beath Hawthorn  EOSFL
8    Bo'ness United EOSFL
9    Camelon Juniors EOSFL
10    Broughty Athletic    ERSJFA
11    Newtongrange Star    EOSFL
12    Carnoustie Panmure    ERSJFA
13    Sauchie Juniors    EOSFL
14    Jeanfield Swifts     EOSFL
15    Kennoway Star Hearts   ERSJFA
16    Forfar West End ERSJFA

The most likely scenario is that  Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic are promoted to the Lowland League, and that Whitehill Welfare are reprevied. Thus giving an EOS Premier 2019/20 of:

1    Linlithgow Rose      
2    Penicuik Athletic   
3    Dundonald Bluebell
4    Broxburn Athletic    
5    Hill of Beath Hawthorn 
6    Bo'ness United 
7    Camelon Juniors 
8    Newtongrange Star   
9    Sauchie Juniors   
10   Jeanfield Swifts    
11  Musselburgh Athletic
12 Dunbar United
13 Tranent Juniors
14  Leith Athletic
15 Preston Athletic
16 Crossgates Primrose

Although there could be a few changes. Sauchie are struggling hard for a place, and there are a few other clubs that are fighting to get in. Crossgates Primrose could easily be replaced with Dalkeith Thistle or Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale. 

The EOS Premier next season will of course be without Lochee and Broughty, and if Bonnyrigg gets promoted, that is another drop in quality. But only because they climbed the pyramid. All in all the EOS Premier next season will still be very good, and close to what the Super League used to be, and also with the chance of getting promoted and licensed.  

Edited February 5, 2019 by lowenan

[Kilbowie Benches]

19 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

That's why mergers are difficult, and take a long time to get done.

Best course of action is for the SFA to tell the SJFA that the West and North can be accomodated intact largely on their terms, but in the East their members will need to move to the EoS as the existing league in the Pyramid, and a solution found for the Tayside issue.  That probably wont happen either. 

The new season kicks-off in 6 months time, the EoS application deadline is less than 8 weeks away.  There is little time to get this all over the line for next season.

So the SFA have to “tell” the SJFA to do something but they can’t “tell” the EoS to do anything! 

[The Moonster]

12 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Its West of Scotland its weege to anyone outside thicko. 

By that logic folk in Fort William and Oban are Weegies. To be clear, you're a moron.

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

So the SFA have to “tell” the SJFA to do something but they can’t “tell” the EoS to do anything! 

Try and work it out for yourself why that is.

It's a bit like the SJFA telling Clydebank they couldn't groundshare with a Junior club if they left.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Burnie_man

[Kilbowie Benches]

6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Try and work it out for yourself why that is.

It's a bit like the SJFA telling Clydebank they couldn't groundshare with a Junior club if they left.

There’s nothing to work out,they can no more tell the SJFA to do something as they can the EoS!

We’ll all be in the pyramid so no worries on that front.

 

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

There’s nothing to work out,they can no more tell the SJFA to do something as they can the EoS!

We’ll all be in the pyramid so no worries on that front.

 

They can, it's the SFA's pyramid of which the EoS are already members, the SJFA are not. The EoS has a vote in decision making, the SJFA do not. You do not appply for membership of something and demand changes to accomodate what you want.

For you to place your absolute trust in the same people who threatened your club last season is quite remarkable, particularly if you're a board member.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Burnie_man

[AlanCamelonfan]

18 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

By that logic folk in Fort William and Oban are Weegies. To be clear, you're a moron.

Fort William north west. Oban and the islands are argyll. There is a difference. 

 

So to be clear you are a moron who uses multiple names

[The Moonster]

Just now, AlanCamelonfan said:

Fort William north west. Oban and the islands are argyll. There is a difference. 

 

So to be clear you are a moron who uses multiple names

Did you hear that? That's the sound of you moving the goalposts when you realised you were entirely wrong.

I use multiple names?  What are you gibbering about, Alan?

[Robert James]

58 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I think allowing the ERJFA in next season on the clear proviso that there is complete integration the following season is one of the ways forward, however the HL/LL boundary line issue needs to be resolved first, and you'd need to agree on how to do it obviously.  Clubs will only take so many "transition" seasons, and for EoS clubs they'll probably want next season to be the last.

As for the suggestion that there should be a new Association formed in the east, why? From an EoSFL perspective they have already demonstrated that they can cope with the influx of 25 Junior teams, they can cope with another similar influx. I doubt they would want to disband solely to accomodate more Junior clubs, something they have already done, and done well. 

If this is to happen it needs to start now, but the SJFA will ensure they plough there own furrow for the time being trying to get in en-masse and ignoring the presence of the EoS.

I agree, no need for a new Association in the East. The EoSL took on a major task, and (against the odds) has delivered superbly.

However, it is my understanding that neither the 'traditional' EoS clubs, nor the 'ex-junior' EoS clubs, want another transitional season.  At present, there are 39 clubs, and there is room for up to another 9 extra clubs next season, split across TWO geographical Tier7 divisions, PROVIDING the Qualifying Cup is discontinued, permanently.  

And yes, that the Tay boundary issue needs to be resolved first, and (if any changes are proposed) these need to be consulted upon with the SPFL clubs,  as well as those within the HFL/SLL, as there can't be  different boundaries in a fully integrated pyramid from Tiers 1 to 7 (and below, if needed ?).  

[AlanCamelonfan]

21 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Did you hear that? That's the sound of you moving the goalposts when you realised you were entirely wrong.

I use multiple names?  What are you gibbering about, Alan?

If you say so buddy let's get back to the conversation instead of pointless shit trying to twist things and make an arse of yourself.   You must live a boring life

[Robert James]

46 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

So the SFA have to “tell” the SJFA to do something but they can’t “tell” the EoS to do anything! 

I think "tell" is the wrong word.

I would suggest that it should read "the SFA should advise the SJFA that if there is agreement on promotion and relegation between Tiers 5 & 6, and the adoption of SFA rules), junior clubs in the West, Tayside, & North can be 'slotted in'  to the pyramid.

[Kilbowie Benches]

36 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

They can, it's the SFA's pyramid of which the EoS are already members, the SJFA are not. The EoS has a vote in decision making, the SJFA do not. You do not appply for membership of something and demand changes to accomodate what you want.

For you to place your absolute trust in the same people who threatened your club last season is quite remarkable, particularly if you're a board member.

The SFA are “asking” the SJFA to align their rules with the SFA to fit “their” plan for the pyramid.

Your hatred for TJ is disturbing,did he shit in your kettle Burnieman?

.

 

[Burnie_man]

Just now, Kilbowie Benches said:

The SFA are “asking” the SJFA to align their rules with the SFA to fit “their” plan for the pyramid.

Your hatred for TJ is disturbing,did he shit in your kettle Burniem

I don't hate anyone, but it is absolutely apparent I get under a lot of Junior blazers skin and have done for a number of years, which is satifying.  It's them doing the hating.

This is not the SFA's plan, this is the SJFA putting together a proposal for the Pyramid group to discuss.  The SFA do not plan leagues.

As for Clydebank, why place your trust in the SJFA after last year? It does seem your club is split between pro-Senior and pro-Junior.  As it stands, you're EoS next season remember.

[Kilbowie Benches]

1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

I don't hate anyone, but it is absolutely apparent I get under a lot of Junior blazers skin and have done for a number of years, which is satifying.  It's them doing the hating.

This is not the SFA's plan, this is the SJFA putting together a proposal for the Pyramid group to discuss.  The SFA do not plan leagues.

As for Clydebank, why place your trust in the SJFA after last year? It does seem your club is split between pro-Senior and pro-Junior.  As it stands, you're EoS next season remember.

You are 100% wrong.

Its the SFAs plan to integrate the Juniors into the pyramid,it’s the SFA that run the PWG!

[The Moonster]

20 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

If you say so buddy let's get back to the conversation instead of pointless shit trying to twist things and make an arse of yourself.   You must live a boring life

We're on a Scottish football forum mate, it's all pointless shit.

If you're going to generalise the whole of the West of Scotland as Weegies then expect to be called on it though, ya teuchter b*****d.

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

You are 100% wrong.

Its the SFAs plan to integrate the Juniors into the pyramid,it’s the SFA that run the PWG!

Nope, the SJFA have a resolution from member clubs to enter the Pyramid as a body, intact.  That has been their position for at least the last 6 years and is the current position.  It's their plan that they are wanting to push through, that is absolute fact.

The SJFA approached the SFA/PWG to say that their members now wanted in after the AGM vote in July 2018. Again, absolute fact.

It is not the SFA's plan to bring the SJFA to the table and here's our plan, that is absolutely wrong.  The PWG has been around for many years and for many years the SJFA said no.

How long have you been involved at Clydebank not to know this?

 

[Kilbowie Benches]

22 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Nope, the SJFA have a resolution from member clubs to enter the Pyramid as a body, intact.  That has been their position for at least the last 6 years and is the current position.  It's their plan that they are wanting to push through, that is absolute fact.

The SJFA approached the SFA/PWG to say that their members now wanted in after the AGM vote in July 2018. Again, absolute fact.

It is not the SFA's plan to bring the SJFA to the table and here's our plan, that is absolutely wrong.  The PWG has been around for many years and for many years the SJFA said no.

How long have you been involved at Clydebank not to know this?

 

The SFA have given the SJFA a list of things that need aligned so as they can join and that is happening.

You seem to know what was discussed at the SJFA AGM even though you weren’t there.

The vote at the AGM was for the Juniors to join the pyramid not that if one region goes the rest can’t.

[Burnie_man]

7 minutes ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

The SFA have given the SJFA a list of things that need aligned so as they can join and that is happening.

You seem to know what was discussed at the SJFA AGM even though you weren’t there.

The vote at the AGM was for the Juniors to join the pyramid not that if one region goes the rest can’t.

The SFA giving the SJFA a list of things that need to be aligned such as rules etc has nothing to do with telling the SJFA how the leagues will be structured. It's the SJFA that are deciding what they want.

You didn't need to be at the EGM to know that the vote was almost unanimous, it was all over clubs website and in the media, and your last sentence just confirms what I have said above, the SJFA are deciding what they want, the SFA aren't dictating it.