Junior football, what is the future?

[Pyramidic]

This just shows how much Junior football is lagging behind the EoSL at the moment:
 

https://uk.soccerway.com/national/scotland/south-of-scotland/20182019/east-of-scotland/r49312/

https://uk.soccerway.com/national/scotland/south-of-scotland/20182019/east-of-scotland-c/r49441/

https://uk.soccerway.com/national/scotland/south-of-scotland/20182019/east-of-scotland-c/r49443/

There is even a page for the conference play-off finals:

https://uk.soccerway.com/national/scotland/south-of-scotland/20182019/championship-round---east/r49444/

 

I wonder how much the EoSL is earning from their fixtures on a prestige betting website like Soccerway?

[craigkillie]

2 hours ago, Che Dail said:

Another way to look at it is 3 feeders:

Highland / Mid / Lowland.

Fed by the 6six SFA regions:

North = HL

Central + East = ML

West + S.West + S.East = LL

Sorted.

Transport links between the south-west and south-east of Scotland are generally rubbish though - they are more linked to Glasgow and Edinburgh respectively. If there are going to be three regions (which I think will be optimal in the longer run), then it should be North, West and East.

[Che Dail]

5 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Transport links between the south-west and south-east of Scotland are generally rubbish though - they are more linked to Glasgow and Edinburgh respectively. If there are going to be three regions (which I think will be optimal in the longer run), then it should be North, West and East.

That is the scenario we have at the moment eg Gretna to Galashiels.

Long term I think the majority of clubs in the LL would consist of central belt clubs - so here would be little travel between the regions. 

[Burnie_man]

7 hours ago, superbigal said:

Surely though a quality eos super that happened to say have lochee or forfar we in it eventually would be okay ?Extending the boundary and thus the amount of clubs can only help with regionilising at the lower levels, where I appreciate it is financially needed.    

Saves having conferences again next season possibly and going straight to regions. All current Tayside juniors likely forming one of those.

Also means no queue jumping for say tayport who might join st Andrews and crossgates in a fife region

 assuming saints or gates don't finish top 6

 

From what I have just been told re ERJFA plans, I now understand your line of questioning.  Heard anything?

[superbigal]

From what I have just been told re ERJFA plans, I now understand your line of questioning.  Heard anything?

No these are my thoughts on what should happen.
In a nutshell. Eos and ersjfa to amalgamate.
Eos superleague to form naturally as per current plan.
Juniors to agree they cannot jump to this level.
Remaining roughly 24 eos non promoted clubs plus junior 36 make circa 60 teams.
Form immediately 4 districts of circa 14 to maximum 16.
Could look like this with some assumptions 're promoted clubs made.

Tayside district: lochee utd, broughty, forfar we, carnoustie, kirrie, downfield, north end, east craigie, violet, harp, brechin vics, Arbroath vics, forfar Albion, coupar angus, blairgowrie.

Fife and perth: tayport, Thornton, kennoway, glenrothes, scone, luncarty, kinnoull, Newburgh, lochore, lochgelly, kirkcaldy, rosyth, burntisland, inverkeithing, st Andrews,oakley

Etc with 2 regions south of bridge.

I think this works.
Boundary changes to in line with juniors.

[GNU_Linux]

No these are my thoughts on what should happen.
In a nutshell. Eos and ersjfa to amalgamate.
Eos superleague to form naturally as per current plan.
Juniors to agree they cannot jump to this level.
Remaining roughly 24 eos non promoted clubs plus junior 36 make circa 60 teams.
Form immediately 4 districts of circa 14 to maximum 16.
Could look like this with some assumptions 're promoted clubs made.

Tayside district: lochee utd, broughty, forfar we, carnoustie, kirrie, downfield, north end, east craigie, violet, harp, brechin vics, Arbroath vics, forfar Albion, coupar angus, blairgowrie.

Fife and perth: tayport, Thornton, kennoway, glenrothes, scone, luncarty, kinnoull, Newburgh, lochore, lochgelly, kirkcaldy, rosyth, burntisland, inverkeithing, st Andrews,oakley

Etc with 2 regions south of bridge.

I think this works.
Boundary changes to in line with juniors.

the only issue is you'd have 4 feeders for 2 relegation spots. If the ERJFA merged in wholesale I'd personally go three feeders into 3 relegation spots or 2 feeders into 2 relegation spots.

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, superbigal said:

No these are my thoughts on what should happen.
In a nutshell. Eos and ersjfa to amalgamate.
Eos superleague to form naturally as per current plan.
Juniors to agree they cannot jump to this level.
Remaining roughly 24 eos non promoted clubs plus junior 36 make circa 60 teams.
Form immediately 4 districts of circa 14 to maximum 16.
Could look like this with some assumptions 're promoted clubs made.

Tayside district: lochee utd, broughty, forfar we, carnoustie, kirrie, downfield, north end, east craigie, violet, harp, brechin vics, Arbroath vics, forfar Albion, coupar angus, blairgowrie.

Fife and perth: tayport, Thornton, kennoway, glenrothes, scone, luncarty, kinnoull, Newburgh, lochore, lochgelly, kirkcaldy, rosyth, burntisland, inverkeithing, st Andrews,oakley

Etc with 2 regions south of bridge.

I think this works.
Boundary changes to in line with juniors.

Fair enough, I'm hearing there could be proposals to alter the format of the ERJFA next season leading to no Superleague which I can only presume means two large regions or three small ones playing-off for the title. Not sure ERJFA are at all interested in merger/amalgamation anyway, just self-preservation which will lead to no Pyramid access.

Re your four District suggestion, how does that work with promotion to a 16 team Premier? we both know from the Juniors that trying to promote multiple regions into the one league leads to very few promotion spots which are very unpopular - ie 1 spot for 14-16 clubs -  there wouldn't be much movement at all.

Also it's not in the power of the EoS to change HL/LL boundary anyway, so add that to the intransigence of the ERJFA towards any sort of meaningful change and I can't see anything like that happening.

I think ERJFA clubs who want Pyramid access need to start prodding the management committee to start talking about it, and not just blabbing "tier 6 done deal"

[Kilbowie Benches]

32 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Fair enough, I'm hearing there could be proposals to alter the format of the ERJFA next season leading to no Superleague which I can only presume means two large regions or three small ones playing-off for the title. Not sure ERJFA are at all interested in merger/amalgamation anyway, just self-preservation which will lead to no Pyramid access.

Re your four District suggestion, how does that work with promotion to a 16 team Premier? we both know from the Juniors that trying to promote multiple regions into the one league leads to very few promotion spots which are very unpopular - ie 1 spot for 14-16 clubs -  there wouldn't be much movement at all.

Also it's not in the power of the EoS to change HL/LL boundary anyway, so add that to the intransigence of the ERJFA towards any sort of meaningful change and I can't see anything like that happening.

I think ERJFA clubs who want Pyramid access need to start prodding the management committee to start talking about it, and not just blabbing "tier 6 done deal"

Do  you seriously believe that the ERJFA clubs care what you think?  

[Robert James]

9 hours ago, Kilbowie Benches said:

Clubs move from area to area in England’s pyramid  all of the time.

The EoSL are just being obstructive.

The likelihood is that the remaining ERJFA clubs that are in W.Lothian will join them anyway without being forced!

In the pyramid south of the border, the FA decides on the (re)allocation of teams between leagues. The individual leagues are consulted about changes, but the final decision rests with the FA's 'Leagues Committee' . Clubs which are moved from one league to another, have a formal right of appeal, which is sometimes successful, but more often not. The EFA also keeps the pyramid structure under review, and occasionally creates new regional divisions, as it did at the beginning of 2018/19.

Therefore English non league clubs don't have the freedom to choose which leagues they play in.  

[Robert James]

16 hours ago, Marten said:

Agreed, but the reason why I say clarity is badly needed is mainly that in my opinion clubs are now being made promises that are very unlikely to materialise. Yes, you can say it's naive for clubs to believe some of the stuff they are being fed, but the sooner there is no doubt about the structure for next season, the better, even for clubs that don't want to move into the pyramid.

Clarity is needed, but the time remaining for resolving some very difficult 'Fixit' issues/disagreements, is running out fast. 

Clubs like Fauldhouse who are considering (but unsure about ?) a move, would be advised to make an application for membership of the EoSL, with a written proviso that their club reserves the right to withdraw its application before the date of the EoSL AGM, if it is agreed by all the parties concerned, that the East Region Junior League will join the pyramid at tier 6 in 2019/20.      

Edited January 24, 2019 by Robert James
post sent in error before completed

[Cameron Wilson]

11 hours ago, Marten said:

Due to the way the population is spread across Scotland, Tayside in the LL area would really make the difference between LL and HL in terms of the area they serve too big. I wouldn't be against copying the junior system of 3 regions, which would solve a lot of issues. But will the SPFL agree to that?

Actually that is not a bad suggestion. The only problem is the east juniors have never had to worry about the borders area, whereas the EoS has never covered Tayside so I wonder if both systems work out about the same when it comes to the east.

[Cameron Wilson]

I think the Scottish pyramid story would make a good movie, so many twists and turns, a lot of suspense about who will jump ship, selfless heroes like the EoS board, conniving villains like TJ,  quite a bit of good old skulduggery.

The East Juniors must know the likes of Fauldhouse are suffering due to their current league setup and thinking about jumping ship. The only thing they can do to stem the flow is to put a very misleading statement about the east region being accepted into tier six of the pyramid on their website. Similarly the EoS may have been pretty cute with that statement being leaked out a few days ago. Not suggesting this was done deliberately but it certainly suits their purposes. I would go further though and say they simply should have made this statement publicly. There is nothing particularly controversial in it, its simply a statement of their position and their interpretation of the rules surrounding changes to league structure at the base of the pyramid. The EoS have done everything else right I think.

Seems clear to me that Fauldhouse and Witburn's only option is to join EoS if they feel too many trips to Tayside are hurting them financially, since even if the East Juniors joined the Pyramid they would be playing the same teams. Unless they think moving to the west region would solve their problems? Not sure travel would work out any better that way.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Cameron Wilson

[Burnie_man]

Do  you seriously believe that the ERJFA clubs care what you think?  

You're not who you pretend to be.

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

You're not who you pretend to be. 

?

[AlanCamelonfan]

9 hours ago, superbigal said:

No these are my thoughts on what should happen.
In a nutshell. Eos and ersjfa to amalgamate.
Eos superleague to form naturally as per current plan.
Juniors to agree they cannot jump to this level.
Remaining roughly 24 eos non promoted clubs plus junior 36 make circa 60 teams.
Form immediately 4 districts of circa 14 to maximum 16.
Could look like this with some assumptions 're promoted clubs made.

Tayside district: lochee utd, broughty, forfar we, carnoustie, kirrie, downfield, north end, east craigie, violet, harp, brechin vics, Arbroath vics, forfar Albion, coupar angus, blairgowrie.

Fife and perth: tayport, Thornton, kennoway, glenrothes, scone, luncarty, kinnoull, Newburgh, lochore, lochgelly, kirkcaldy, rosyth, burntisland, inverkeithing, st Andrews,oakley

Etc with 2 regions south of bridge.

I think this works.
Boundary changes to in line with juniors.

 

Tayside shouldn't be in the Lowland. This that we should go to junior style regions aswell how can you as you have south of scotland which had no representation in the juniors 

[San Starko Rover]

Tayside shouldn't be in the Lowland. This that we should go to junior style regions aswell how can you as you have south of scotland which had no representation in the juniors 

 

Maybe wrong but I don’t see the Tay bridge divide moving, Montrose wanted it moved I believe when they were facing relegation to the Highland league even saying it would end them and nothing changed. Montrose are an established Senior team playing national football for nearly 100 years and the SFA and SPFL wouldn’t move the boundary, no disrespect but if they wouldn’t move it then why would they move it now for a few Dundee Juniors teams? I appreciate that’s not how the Juniors see it but it’s really about how the SPFL see it and they want 2 leagues split at the Tay bridge. Unless you can convince the SPFL to move it or adopt 3 regions it won’t change.

 

Not aimed at AlanCamelonfan just a general comment

[Burnie_man]

10 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

 

Maybe wrong but I don’t see the Tay bridge divide moving, Montrose wanted it moved I believe when they were facing relegation to the Highland league even saying it would end them and nothing changed. Montrose are an established Senior team playing national football for nearly 100 years and the SFA and SPFL wouldn’t move the boundary, no disrespect but if they wouldn’t move it then why would they move it now for a few Dundee Juniors teams? I appreciate that’s not how the Juniors see it but it’s really about how the SPFL see it and they want 2 leagues split at the Tay bridge. Unless you can convince the SPFL to move it or adopt 3 regions it won’t change.

There's the boundary issue, and the issue of the EoS not wanting a competitor league covering the same area at the same level in the Pyramid.

The SJFA will present a plan eventually to the PWG for discussion, we don't know what that will be but we can pretty much guess it will include the ERJFA as a tier 6/7 league with clubs north of the boundary line included. They'll want a 4 way play-off, or perhaps the ERJFA/WRJFA will play-off first and one Junior club enter the play-off.

That's highly unlikely to be agreed by all parties. There was apparently stalemate at the last PWG meeting, no idea on what points, could have been rules alignment and/or the boundary line issue or something else, but clearly it's slow progress.

Then there's Lowland League 2.

Will we get clarity form any of the parties involved, unlikely, the EoS have come closest by the looks of it and there's little reason to doubt what they said. So once again we're back to clubs trying to make sense of what is going on and making decisions on that basis.

Did someone say you could make a film out of this?

 

[San Starko Rover]

There's the boundary issue, and the issue of the EoS not wanting a competitor league covering the same area at the same level in the Pyramid.

The SJFA will present a plan eventually to the PWG for discussion, we don't know what that will be but we can pretty much guess it will include the ERJFA as a tier 6/7 league with clubs north of the boundary line included. They'll want a 4 way play-off, or perhaps the ERJFA/WRJFA will play-off first and one Junior club enter the play-off.

That's highly unlikely to be agreed by all parties. There was apparently stalemate at the last PWG meeting, no idea on what points, could have been rules alignment and/or the boundary line issue or something else, but clearly it's slow progress.

Then there's Lowland League 2.

Will we get clarity form any of the parties involved, unlikely, the EoS have come closest by the looks of it and there's little reason to doubt what they said. So once again we're back to clubs trying to make sense of what is going on and making decisions on that basis.

Did someone say you could make a film out of this?

 

 

A bad movie surely [emoji23]

 

Yea I’ve been reading the thread Burnie_man big fan of how much they love you on here and certain peoples “it’s a done deal”. As I said on EoS the SFA need to grow a set and sort this out (no chance). I can understand the Tayside lads wanting the boundary changed to what they’re used to but as above they wouldn’t move it for Montrose FC. Personally I’d like to see an integrated pyramid but it needs to be under one FA not two this SJFA with in the pyramid is a joke. Not what the Dundee lads want but I’d say 2 feeder leagues in the North for HL (Tayside and Aberdeenshire) and (Inverness and Highland). As I said above if Tayside want to play Lowland they need to convince the SPFL as they are the ones who wanted two not three feeder leagues.

[AlanCamelonfan]

17 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

 

Did someone say you could make a film out of this?

 

Robert Duvall playing burnieman. The guy from the bet 365 advert playing tj

[ShrimpLok]

13 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Robert Duvall playing burnieman. The guy from the bet 365 advert playing tj

I used to work with a guy who was always taking time off work to go and film A Shot at Glory. Think he portrayed the Rangers keeper, had possibly been at Stenhousemuir as a keeper in the mid 90s?

Scratch that. Wikipedia tells me it was ex Airdrie keeper John Martin and he portrayed the Kilnockie keeper until injured in the semi final. 

Apparently we should have been shouting Scab at him at work, not sure I would have done mind as he was hard as  fucking nails.

Edited January 24, 2019 by ShrimpLok
John Martin