Junior football, what is the future?

[Burnie_man]

Clever? Floodlights are an advantage, no doudt. But this seems like a constantly moving goal post.
They know what they want, we know the preferred structure and basic requirements. They should publish them and invite applications.

It's clever because it's a requirement that is seen as reasonable and probably overdue, and they know bringing it in at this point slows down applicants.

The main 2018 change was covered disabled spaces, 2019 is floodlights, 2020 could be seating. Licencing by it's very nature is a constantly changing picture as it is there to drive up standards and facilities.

[Baxter's Nutmeg]

1 hour ago, Robert James said:

When is this derogation likely to be ratified by the SFA/PWG ?

Does anyone know which ex-Junior clubs have applied, and is 31st December 2018 the cut-off date ? 

I’m not sure to be honest, I would imagine it would need to be very soon.

[Baxter's Nutmeg]

19 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

24 minutes ago, Fife Journeyman said:

How will this affect Bonyrigg Rose? Probably the current favourites for promotion but don't have lights. Would they consider ground sharing with Newtongrange or Penicuik for a season so they can secure a licence.
It's all very messy

They'll likely be Licenced and have a set period of time to install floodlights.

I’m not sure that will be the case, I think they may come under the new regs immediately?

[Burnie_man]

There's a Licence board meeting in February and you need to be approved at that to be eligible for LL promotion. There's another in May which is probably the last chance to be Licenced for next seasons Scottish.

[Sergeant Wilson]

9 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

It's clever because it's a requirement that is seen as reasonable and probably overdue, and they know bringing it in at this point slows down applicants.

The main 2018 change was covered disabled spaces, 2019 is floodlights, 2020 could be seating. Licencing by it's very nature is a constantly changing picture as it is there to drive up standards and facilities.

I understand the reasons and technicalities. I think a more welcoming attitude and gradual implementation might have been helpful to the integration process.

[Burnie_man]

I’m not sure that will be the case, I think they may come under the new regs immediately?

They do, but will probably be able to apply for derogation which will allow a period of time to install floodlights whilst being approved for a Licence.

[locheeboy]

18 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

24 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It was always a matter of time. I'd like to think that it'll get challenged/clarified so that existing applications are honoured by derogations being accepted. It's a farce already, but it'll be even more so if the EoS Champion is unlicenced and the SoS Champion is Stranraer Reserves meaning no promotion.

The SFA's whole handling of PWG and Licencing has been poor, their communication is very poor. Self-protectionism is rife throughout the game.

The Loonball finds himself agreeing with you. 

[Burnie_man]

I understand the reasons and technicalities. I think a more welcoming attitude and gradual implementation might have been helpful to the integration process.

Agree. As I said their comms are exceptionally poor, as is their understanding of non-league football, and plenty of politics are at play.

[Burnie_man]

The Loonball finds himself agreeing with you. 

I thought I just posted bile and spin. Make up yer mind.

[locheeboy]

1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I understand the reasons and technicalities. I think a more welcoming attitude and gradual implementation might have been helpful to the integration process.

Agree. As I said their comms are exceptionally poor, as is their understanding of non-league football, and plenty of politics are at play.

Burnie, self preservation is what it is all about. You should look closer to home on what is being fed back to you. I'm sure you will have read Mr Maxwell's recent email

[locheeboy]

Just now, Burnie_man said:

4 minutes ago, locheeboy said:

The Loonball finds himself agreeing with you. 

I thought I just posted bile and spin. Make up yer mind.

You do on many occasions but I agree with the statement you made 

[Sergeant Wilson]

4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

7 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I understand the reasons and technicalities. I think a more welcoming attitude and gradual implementation might have been helpful to the integration process.

Agree. As I said their comms are exceptionally poor, as is their understanding of non-league football, and plenty of politics are at play.

It's so sad, this is a 10 minute job spread over 10 years. We're supposed to have a Governing body for all levels. The fact they don't know the existing difficulties at this stage speaks volumes.

[Baxter's Nutmeg]

11 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

15 minutes ago, Baxter said:

I’m not sure that will be the case, I think they may come under the new regs immediately?

They do, but will probably be able to apply for derogation which will allow a period of time to install floodlights whilst being approved for a Licence.

I hope they get it,  as it would be unfair to move the goalposts  when they were so close to it.

[Burnie_man]

Burnie, self preservation is what it is all about. You should look closer to home on what is being fed back to you. I'm sure you will have read Mr Maxwell's recent email

I could say likewise to you. Any changes to the Pyramid set-up have to be agreed by all parties, there hasn't even been a plan put on the table at the PWG as to what the SFA propose for 2018-19. Nothing. There is no agreement and the EoS will not agree to the ERJFA entering, and I believe the LL also have doubts.

So rather than constantly making the claim that its a done deal, it's not. There is not even a guarantee that anything will be agreed in time for next season.

Again, facts.

I dare say it will be an interesting few months upto the EoS application deadline.

[FairWeatherFan]

11 minutes ago, locheeboy said:

Burnie, self preservation is what it is all about. You should look closer to home on what is being fed back to you. I'm sure you will have read Mr Maxwell's recent email

Is this a new email or the one from October? Because if it's the October one I don't think we can call it recent anymore.

[Burnie_man]

It's so sad, this is a 10 minute job spread over 10 years. We're supposed to have a Governing body for all levels. The fact they don't know the existing difficulties at this stage speaks volumes.

They don't understand the difficulties faced by clubs at non league level when it comes to funding improvements of this magnitute, and they certainly don't understand the issues at play in the east. It wouldn't surprise me if the CEO doesn't know anything about the HL/LL dividing line, or that clubs can't just pluck £60k plus out of their arse.

[locheeboy]

3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I could say likewise to you. Any changes to the Pyramid set-up have to be agreed by all parties, there hasn't even been a plan put on the table at the PWG as to what the SFA propose for 2018-19. Nothing. There is no agreement and the EoS will not agree to the ERJFA entering, and I believe the LL also have doubts.

So rather than constantly making the claim that its a done deal, it's not. There is not even a guarantee that anything will be agreed in time for next season.

Again, facts.

I dare say it will be an interesting few months upto the EoS application deadline.

Burnie, I am happy with the advice we have been given by the ERJFA & SJFA that the Juniors are part of the pryamid from 2019-20 season. We have also been informed as to the change in the disciplne system from next season where we come under the SFA disciplne code although it will be governed by the SJFA. 

 

[Burnie_man]

Burnie, I am happy with the advice we have been given by the ERJFA & SJFA that the Juniors are part of the pryamid from 2019-20 season. We have also been informed as to the change in the disciplne system from next season where we come under the SFA disciplne code although it will be governed by the SJFA. 
 

So what's the plan? Have the LL agreed to Tayside clubs entering one of their feeder leagues? How will the play-offs work? If you are relegated from the LL and are in the east, which league do you go to? Do ERJFA clubs enter the South Challenge Cup? Alex Jack Cup? What happens to the Junior Cup?

What's the plan?

Fact is there is no plan on the table. Currently there is no agreement at all. If there was, you'd know the above facts.

[stanley]

I hope this doesn't turn into a situation where clubs who have been SFA members for decades get favourable treatment.  If they are going to bring new rules then they should be the same for everyone.  If there's a time period where you're allowed to get floodlights to keep/gain a licence then it should be the same for all clubs in the pyramid.  Recently junior, long-term senior etc.

The process for getting a licence in the first place certainly seemed weighted towards existing members and I can see the same happening again. 

[Ginaro]

2 hours ago, locheeboy said:

Once again I can confirm Junior clubs are entitled to apply. Application is not reserved for clubs already in the pryamid. Linlithgow and Kelty both Junior clubs when they applied. Nothing has changed.

Of course all of this is true, you're arguing with yourself here. The point is that applications for full membership of the SFA cannot be ratified by the board until the club is in the SFA pyramid. We'll just need to wait and see whether SJFA clubs will be part of the pyramid next season...