Junior football, what is the future?

[GNU_Linux]

The EoS structure next season will be an EoS Premier of 16 clubs, and then probably two Conferences, if all of the remaining Lothians and Fife clubs from the ERJFA moved over there would probably be three Conferences, and this is how it could look.....

I have made a few assumptions, such as Bonnyrigg going up to the Lowland League, with Whitehill Welfare coming down (and I know there's a good chance of Linlithgow also going up if they miss out in the play-off), I've also had to guess who makes up the Premier league, but it provides a rough idea.  The winners of each Conference would I assume be promoted to the Premier (tier 6) with three being relegated from the Premier, with the next 4 clubs in each Conference plus the best 6th placed, plus the 3 relegated clubs, forming a 16 team EoS First the following season (tier 7), and the remainder perhaps split into two regional divisions below that (tier 8 ).  Something to chew over.

 

Would EOS members be willing to play another season of conferences for seeding? I understand the intention to help all the mover overs find their level (indeed this is a selling point to these clubs) but I can't see EOS members outside the top 16 being happy with another season of this nature whilst some members play in a regular league season.

 

[Pyramidic]

Perhaps Burnie_man could work out the Tier 7 split on a geographical basis.

[Burnie_man]

9 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

Would EOS members be willing to play another season of conferences for seeding? I understand the intention to help all the mover overs find their level (indeed this is a selling point to these clubs) but I can't see EOS members outside the top 16 being happy with another season of this nature whilst some members play in a regular league season.

I believe the Conferences are the preferred option for next season for tier 7, in order to give new applicant clubs a chance of joining at that level.

[Ginaro]

7 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Only moaner so far has been Dundonald 

And that's only because they couldn't manage to ctrl + F someone's name in a PDF!

12 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

Would EOS members be willing to play another season of conferences for seeding? I understand the intention to help all the mover overs find their level (indeed this is a selling point to these clubs) but I can't see EOS members outside the top 16 being happy with another season of this nature whilst some members play in a regular league season.

The good thing about tier 7 conferences is there won't be the same differences in level between top and bottom as there is this season, with the top 16 creamed off.

But if all 20 of the Junior clubs comes across, how else do you integrate them? If they go below the EOS clubs in a 3x14 setup, the poorest EOS teams are in the same division as the best ex-Juniors. If you go 3x14 geographical then you'll probably get uneven divisions. I'm sure Tweedmouth and Eyemouth would rather play in those conferences listed above than in a linear setup.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Ginaro

[Burnie_man]

13 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

Perhaps Burnie_man could work out the Tier 7 split on a geographical basis.

Well I had already dabbled with what 2020-2021 could look like, again full of assumptions as to which clubs end up where

EDIT: and I've just realised I have left out the two Perthshire clubs that fall below the dividing line, but then they may prefer remaining with the ERJFA/Tayside.

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by Burnie_man

[GNU_Linux]

If the LL2 came to fruition and 7 or 8 EOS clubs moved up (plus the winner to the LL) would the conferences go from 3 to 2? Cant quite do the math in my head.

[Burnie_man]

If the LL2 came to fruition and 7 or 8 EOS clubs moved up (plus the winner to the LL) would the conferences go from 3 to 2? Cant quite do the math in my head.

You could probably squeeze into two Conferences.

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, GNU_Linux said:

If the LL2 came to fruition and 7 or 8 EOS clubs moved up (plus the winner to the LL) would the conferences go from 3 to 2? Cant quite do the math in my head.

Given the recent SPFL meeting, in my view LL2 won't be created until a decision is made (probably for 2020/21) about the  proposed creation of  SPFL 'Div 3' . The success of an integrated 'non league' pyramid depends upon existing SPFL clubs voting to agree automatic promotion and relegation  between the league, and the LL & HFL.  To date SPFL clubs have refused to accept it.  IMO it would be a complete farce  to have a new fully integrated  non-league pyramid structure, where only one club is promoted to the SPFL each year,  and ONLY if they win a play-off.  Not very encouraging for ambitious Junior  clubs, nor for existing senior LL clubs.

The SPFL clubs are very unlikely to agree automatic promotion (for either 1 or 2 clubs), unless this extra cushion (against demotion) is created.  Whilst initial discussions have been relatively positive, next season is too soon for an SPFL tier 5.    

Setting aside the SPFL Colts proposal, which is a 'political issue',  the elevation of  a minimum of 4 HFL & 4 LL clubs to SPFL Div 3 would also render  LL2  inappropriate until a West League has been fully integrated into the pyramid, and it has bedded in. Conveniently, this would also open up the bottom of the HFL, for North Region and North of Tayside junior clubs.  

I suspect that 2019/29 will be an interim 'fudge'  whilst the above is sorted.  This situation should be monitored carefully !

 

[Black Pennel]

My god.

What fresh hell is this ?

Is it not enough that Burnieman can w**k himself silly pondering the current scenario without considering the unpredictable future permutations ?

It was bad enough before the Kilbowie Benches p***k got home from school.

Don't mind me,...batter in while the rest of us just enjoy watching some fitba.

[Sergeant Wilson]

8 hours ago, Robert James said:

Given the recent SPFL meeting, in my view LL2 won't be created until a decision is made (probably for 2020/21) about the  proposed creation of  SPFL 'Div 3' . The success of an integrated 'non league' pyramid depends upon existing SPFL clubs voting to agree automatic promotion and relegation  between the league, and the LL & HFL.  To date SPFL clubs have refused to accept it.  IMO it would be a complete farce  to have a new fully integrated  non-league pyramid structure, where only one club is promoted to the SPFL each year,  and ONLY if they win a play-off.  Not very encouraging for ambitious Junior  clubs, nor for existing senior LL clubs.

The SPFL clubs are very unlikely to agree automatic promotion (for either 1 or 2 clubs), unless this extra cushion (against demotion) is created.  Whilst initial discussions have been relatively positive, next season is too soon for an SPFL tier 5.    

Setting aside the SPFL Colts proposal, which is a 'political issue',  the elevation of  a minimum of 4 HFL & 4 LL clubs to SPFL Div 3 would also render  LL2  inappropriate until a West League has been fully integrated into the pyramid, and it has bedded in. Conveniently, this would also open up the bottom of the HFL, for North Region and North of Tayside junior clubs.  

I suspect that 2019/29 will be an interim 'fudge'  whilst the above is sorted.  This situation should be monitored carefully !

 

I can't see any advantage of league 3 to a relegated club. If given a choice, surely competing in vibrant mixture of non league clubs with a degree of support, in proper grounds is better than going in to a 25% reserve division.

[superbigal]

6 hours ago, Black Pennel said:

My god.

What fresh hell is this ?

Is it not enough that Burnieman can w**k himself silly pondering the current scenario without considering the unpredictable future permutations ?

It was bad enough before the Kilbowie Benches p***k got home from school.

Don't mind me,...batter in while the rest of us just enjoy watching some fitba.

Reminds me of the end credits and this particular classic scene.

 

[Burnie_man]

6 hours ago, Black Pennel said:

Don't mind me,...batter in while the rest of us just enjoy watching some fitba.

I can multi-task, just like you can ignore this thread.  Threave Rovers 

[Burnie_man]

10 hours ago, Robert James said:

Given the recent SPFL meeting, in my view LL2 won't be created until a decision is made (probably for 2020/21) about the  proposed creation of  SPFL 'Div 3' . The success of an integrated 'non league' pyramid depends upon existing SPFL clubs voting to agree automatic promotion and relegation  between the league, and the LL & HFL.  To date SPFL clubs have refused to accept it.  IMO it would be a complete farce  to have a new fully integrated  non-league pyramid structure, where only one club is promoted to the SPFL each year,  and ONLY if they win a play-off.  Not very encouraging for ambitious Junior  clubs, nor for existing senior LL clubs.

The SPFL clubs are very unlikely to agree automatic promotion (for either 1 or 2 clubs), unless this extra cushion (against demotion) is created.  Whilst initial discussions have been relatively positive, next season is too soon for an SPFL tier 5.    

Setting aside the SPFL Colts proposal, which is a 'political issue',  the elevation of  a minimum of 4 HFL & 4 LL clubs to SPFL Div 3 would also render  LL2  inappropriate until a West League has been fully integrated into the pyramid, and it has bedded in. Conveniently, this would also open up the bottom of the HFL, for North Region and North of Tayside junior clubs.  

I suspect that 2019/29 will be an interim 'fudge'  whilst the above is sorted.  This situation should be monitored carefully !

 

I think there's more chance of LL2 happening before SPFL3, gives the Lowland League more clout to be able to point to having more licenced members who all want better access to the SPFL.  It's also far easier to get off the ground, plus current LL clubs probably don't want to be relegated to a league under "Junior" control.

Will be interesting to see how quickly this idea progresses.

[GNU_Linux]

Id be open to a LL2. a 16 team affair setup with 8 east & 8 west (counting sos as west on chance any of them would be willing to make the jump). Would help to solve the issue of the LL tier 5 being majority east and would be easier to do so. 2 up to the LL and 2 down to the regionals. Bit like TJs sooper dooper junior league but actually having some sense behind it.

[parsforlife]

Spfl3 is doomed to die a death. It was absolutely swatted down by league 1/2 clubs going by the quotes in recent articles, if you ignore the press bluster that surrounds them.

LL2 had a good chance I think, with the very unlikely spfl3 being the only thing that might stop it.

As for automatic relegation from spfl2, we are a while off, with only Edinburgh city having faced the promotion struggle and east Stirlingshire being to an extent 'deserving' of relegation.

We will need another 4-5 relegations for clubs to switch on to the problems of getting back in and worry less about leaving in the first place.

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

Id be open to a LL2. a 16 team affair setup with 8 east & 8 west (counting sos as west on chance any of them would be willing to make the jump). Would help to solve the issue of the LL tier 5 being majority east and would be easier to do so. 2 up to the LL and 2 down to the regionals. Bit like TJs sooper dooper junior league but actually having some sense behind it.

Agree, a single division is easier to set-up and hopefully with the aim of evenually splitting into West and East divisions.  You'd probably need to give clubs a couple of years to get Licenced whilst allowing promotion to LL.  Looking at it long term, a LL with 42 licenced clubs would have a lot of clout.

That said, who knows if this "working group" has even got off the ground yet.

[Vollyman]

I thought this forum was a junior forum about the last 20 posts have been about EOS LL and SPFL3

[PRICEY]

I thought this forum was a junior forum about the last 20 posts have been about EOS LL and SPFL3

You beat me two it.The threads called “The future of the Juniors”,SJFA have at least a plan going forward,unlike the EOS.
For what it’s worth,it’s almost certain that the West Junior champ will play the East Junior champ,effectively giving the Juniors only one place in the Lowland league play offs

[shuggie123]

2 hours ago, Vollyman said:

I thought this forum was a junior forum about the last 20 posts have been about EOS LL and SPFL3

That won't change until Burnieman has convinced everyone he is right and everyone else is wrong.

[Burnie_man]

That won't change until Burnieman has convinced everyone he is right and everyone else is wrong.

Whitburn tried that with the Superleague, went a bit wrong [emoji23]