Junior football, what is the future?

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, glensmad said:

If the juniors are integrated into the pyramid as is currently proposed and supposedly agreed, i.e. under the auspices of the SJFA, then they will still technically be junior teams. That saves any club from an awkward constitutional decision about changing the club's status. The only thing that will change will be the rules they need to adhere to, which will be set by the SJFA in agreement with the SFA and the other relevant parties.

So they'll be Senior then, playing in Senior Competitions, against other Senior clubs.

What is an "awkward constituational decision"?  it's fitba.

[Blackie Gold]

1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

My team will be in the Scottish Cup next season, and the season after, and the season after that. Will yours? 

And the cup will be all the better with the input of the mighty blackburn who will bring feck all to the competition except for its snout in the dwindling sponsorship trough

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, Blackie Gold said:

And the cup will be all the better with the input of the mighty blackburn who will bring feck all to the competition except for its snout in the dwindling sponsorship trough

Ah, the ignorance followed by the dripping arrogance. You represent your club well.

[Pete77]

Are the luthgy boys still making up attendance numbers so they can win this thread? 

[Blackie Gold]

2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Ah, the ignorance followed by the dripping arrogance. You represent your club well.

Unlike the we will be in the scottish every single year nah nah nahnana gloat. We could go for our license and play every year, however your lot making a mark in the competition is a pipe dream. Total non entity of a club trying to lord it, with their soulless plastic ground.

[Burnie_man]

Just now, Blackie Gold said:

Unlike the we will be in the scottish every single year nah nah nahnana gloat. We could go for our license and play every year, however your lot making a mark in the competition is a pipe dream. Total non entity of a club trying to lord it, with their soulless plastic ground.

Keep going, you're doing well

[Blackie Gold]

3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Keep going, you're doing well

Unlike your team

[Wile E Coyote]

28 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

My team will be in the Scottish Cup next season, and the season after, and the season after that. Will yours? 

What do you think will happen if you are in the Scottish Cup every year. Do you think you will be playing SPFL teams every year.

Take Wigton as an example.

1st Prelim Round- Bye so no money unless you play.

2nd Prelim Round. Away to Talbot. Spanked 10-0 and out

How much money do you think they made from that and do you think that game benefited anybody.

That's the reality for most of the teams if they get into the Scottish Cup. Talbot have won 5 games to get where they are. Most of the former Juniors couldn't win 5 games in the Junior Cup so they have no chance of doing it in the Senior Cup.

I am not having a go at Wigton here, just highlighting the reality for most of the former Junior teams. It won't be all glamour and money making every year

[glensmad]

So they'll be Senior then, playing in Senior Competitions, against other Senior clubs.
What is an "awkward constituational decision"?  it's fitba.

They'll be "semi-professional", as many of the junior teams currently are. Senior/junior is just a term. The point I'm making, though, is that as long as the SJFA is a team's governing body (as is the proposal) then nothing really changes. It's only when a team is likely to be promoted to a league which is beyond the auspices of the SJFA that a club would have to look at the wording of its constitution and decide whether it needs their members to approve the change of status.

[Burnie_man]

Just now, Wile E Coyote said:

What do you think will happen if you are in the Scottish Cup every year. Do you think you will be playing SPFL teams every year.

Take Wigton as an example.

1st Prelim Round- Bye so no money unless you play.

2nd Prelim Round. Away to Talbot. Spanked 10-0 and out

How much money do you think they made from that and do you think that game benefited anybody.

That's the reality for most of the teams if they get into the Scottish Cup. Talbot have won 5 games to get where they are. Most of the former Juniors couldn't win 5 games in the Junior Cup so they have no chance of doing it in the Senior Cup.

I am not having a go at Wigton here, just highlighting the reality for most of the former Junior teams. It won't be all glamour and money making every year

We'll take part in the competition which for us, is a massive thing. More often than not we'll lose the first or second game and not get very far, we're a small club, but participation in itself will help us grow the whole club, make people from the village more aware of what we do and encourage them to come along. From next season Round 1 games get TV coverage and a live game. A bit of luck once in a blue moon and who knows where you'll end up.

Wigtown would have made, I think, £3,000 for that one game you highlight, plus gate money and other stuff on top. Now for the size of the club, that is massive and it would be a big day for them as well with a good crowd. Plus, given you have to be full SFA members to enter every year, the club also would have received an additional annual payment from the SFA. All of that I would presume helps keep them running and let's them improve their ground (which they have done in recent years), and on the pitch as well.

Contrast that to Hurlford spanking Dufftown 10-0 in the Junior Cup this season, Dufftown probably lost money on the day out even after the match guarantee (or half the gate) was paid out (if the game was in Dufftown probably the same would have been true).

Would you rather be in Wigtown's position or Dufftown's?

 

[Burnie_man]

14 minutes ago, glensmad said:

49 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

So they'll be Senior then, playing in Senior Competitions, against other Senior clubs.
What is an "awkward constituational decision"?  it's fitba.

They'll be "semi-professional", as many of the junior teams currently are. Senior/junior is just a term. The point I'm making, though, is that as long as the SJFA is a team's governing body (as is the proposal) then nothing really changes. It's only when a team is likely to be promoted to a league which is beyond the auspices of the SJFA that a club would have to look at the wording of its constitution and decide whether it needs their members to approve the change of status.

Leagues enter the Pyramid, not Associations.  So for example the West Region will enter the Pyramid, but ultimately their governing body will be the SFA, it is they who will continue to administer player registrations and referee appointments, but who would also the deal with disciplinary matters. The League themselves will set the fixtures.

What would the SJFA actually do?

[Wile E Coyote]

3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

We'll take part in the competition which for us, is a massive thing. More often than not we'll lose the first or second game and not get very far, we're a small club, but participation in itself will help us grow the whole club, make people from the village more aware of what we do and encourage them to come along. From next season Round 1 games get TV coverage and a live game. A bit of luck once in a blue moon and who knows where you'll end up.

Wigtown would have made, I think, £3,000 for that one game you highlight, plus gate money and other stuff on top. Now for the size of the club, that is massive and it would be a big day for them as well with a good crowd. Plus, given you have to be full SFA members to enter every year, the club also would have received an additional annual payment from the SFA. All of that I would presume helps keep them running and let's them improve their ground (which they have done in recent years), and on the pitch as well.

Contrast that to Hurlford spanking Dufftown 10-0 in the Junior Cup this season, Dufftown probably lost money on the day out even after the match guarantee (or half the gate) was paid out (if the game was in Dufftown probably the same would have been true).

Would you rather be in Wigtown's position or Dufftown's?

 

Seriously doubt the prize money for prelim round 2 is £3000. More like £1000.

[glensmad]

Leagues enter the Pyramid, not Associations.  So for example the West Region will enter the Pyramid, but ultimately their governing body will be the SFA, it is they who will continue to administer player registrations and referee appointments, but who would also the deal with disciplinary matters. The League themselves will set the fixtures.
What would the SJFA actually do?

The same as all the different local football associations in the English pyramid do. The FA doesn't look after every league in England, yes they are the ultimate governing body as the SFA are up here, but at local level in the English pyramid there are local FAs who administer the leagues in their areas.

[FairWeatherFan]

11 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said:

Seriously doubt the prize money for prelim round 2 is £3000. More like £1000.

£2,000 a year ago. Not sure if this year's prize money breakdown is available.

 

[Burnie_man]

4 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said:

Seriously doubt the prize money for prelim round 2 is £3000. More like £1000.

It's not actually, go and ask your Treasurer. 

It goes something like;

Prelim1: £3,000 (could be £2,000)

Prelim2: £3,000 (could be £2,000)

R1: £4,000

R2: £8,000

R3: £12,000

So if you start in Prelim Round 1 and get to Round 1 proper, you pocket at least £8K.

[Ginaro]

14 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said:

Seriously doubt the prize money for prelim round 2 is £3000. More like £1000.

Last season apparently it was £3000 for each preliminary round, according to the figures posted by @cmontheloknow - which if it's the same this season would see Talbot bank £30k.

 

[Burnie_man]

6 minutes ago, glensmad said:

16 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Leagues enter the Pyramid, not Associations.  So for example the West Region will enter the Pyramid, but ultimately their governing body will be the SFA, it is they who will continue to administer player registrations and referee appointments, but who would also the deal with disciplinary matters. The League themselves will set the fixtures.
What would the SJFA actually do?

The same as all the different local football associations in the English pyramid do. The FA doesn't look after every league in England, yes they are the ultimate governing body as the SFA are up here, but at local level in the English pyramid there are local FAs who administer the leagues in their areas.

The East of Scotland FA do not administer the East of Scotland League, they look after a few local cups.  You don't need to be a member of the EoSFA to be a member of the EoS League.

Would the SJFA be left to look after the Junior Cup and that's it? assuming it keeps going. They wont have anything to do with any cups run for the West Region. Hell of a cost associated with an office at Hampden and a full time staff member to run one cup. Doesn't make any sense.

[glensmad]

The East of Scotland FA do not administer the East of Scotland League, they look after a few local cups.  You don't need to be a member of the EoSFA to be a member of the EoS League.
Would the SJFA be left to look after the Junior Cup and that's it? assuming it keeps going. They wont have anything to do with any cups run for the West Region. Hell of a cost associated with an office at Hampden and a full time staff member to run one cup. Doesn't make any sense.

Is that not the status quo though ?

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, glensmad said:

2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The East of Scotland FA do not administer the East of Scotland League, they look after a few local cups.  You don't need to be a member of the EoSFA to be a member of the EoS League.
Would the SJFA be left to look after the Junior Cup and that's it? assuming it keeps going. They wont have anything to do with any cups run for the West Region. Hell of a cost associated with an office at Hampden and a full time staff member to run one cup. Doesn't make any sense.

Is that not the status quo though ?

Well no, there wont be any re-instatments to administer as the practice would be abolished, or any disciplinary issues. Queries would be directed to the SFA registration dept or their disciplinary dept or referees dept. 

So in reality the SJFA no longer need to exist in its current form if at all, no expensive Hampden office to rent, no £30k+ salary, and the money in the bank could be distributed amongst all members.

[GNU_Linux]

imo the current junior regions could do fine without a middle man between them & the ultimate body they answer to & are governed by. The EOS, SOS, LL & HL do just fine & thrive without one. With the SFA taking over most of what the sjfa does currently (sans the junior cup) it seems like a body not doing much.

 

A point re junior/senior is what happens when a club gets relegated to an sjfa league. Lets say Fort William get relegated as do Cumbernauld Colts to the North Superleague & West Premiership respectivley. Do they suddenly have to become 'junior'.?