Junior football, what is the future?

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Sorry I wasn't clearer. I am aware licensed sides will be grand no matter where they are but that was one, of many, benefits LL sides have had over Junior sides over the last few years. 

EKFC and EK Thistle are a good example. If the juniors joined the pyramid from the off I'd imagine those two would be at the same level but I can't see Thistle catching up for a long time unless something drastic happens

[cmontheloknow]

27 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Sorry I wasn't clearer. I am aware licensed sides will be grand no matter where they are but that was one, of many, benefits LL sides have had over Junior sides over the last few years. 

EKFC and EK Thistle are a good example. If the juniors joined the pyramid from the off I'd imagine those two would be at the same level but I can't see Thistle catching up for a long time unless something drastic happens

Maybe I'm misremembering but did the guys who pushed the EKFC formation not call in at Showpark first?

[FairWeatherFan]

35 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Sorry I wasn't clearer. I am aware licensed sides will be grand no matter where they are but that was one, of many, benefits LL sides have had over Junior sides over the last few years. 

EKFC and EK Thistle are a good example. If the juniors joined the pyramid from the off I'd imagine those two would be at the same level but I can't see Thistle catching up for a long time unless something drastic happens

If the EoS, SoS & Juniors all integrated in some way in the beginning. I'm guessing that the likes of EKFC, Cumbernauld Colts and BSC Glasgow would have had a similar trajectory as Rossvale & Gartcairn. The newer clubs like EKFC & Colts might have an advantage over EK Thistle and Cumbernauld Utd due to momentum from being new enterprises.

[Tutankhamen]

23 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

If the EoS, SoS & Juniors all integrated in some way in the beginning. I'm guessing that the likes of EKFC, Cumbernauld Colts and BSC Glasgow would have had a similar trajectory as Rossvale & Gartcairn. The newer clubs like EKFC & Colts might have an advantage over EK Thistle and Cumbernauld Utd due to momentum from being new enterprises.

End of the day it's all about money. Teams like BSC, EKFC and Cumbernauld Colts are getting money from somewhere. Problem is if the money dries up.

[Sunrise]

38 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

End of the day it's all about money. Teams like BSC, EKFC and Cumbernauld Colts are getting money from somewhere. Problem is if the money dries up.

Aye, there's no other Scottish teams in juniors, amateurs, SPFL who have decent, if sometimes vulnerable, sources of income eh? Blast those Lowland-ers.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Sunrise

[Tutankhamen]

23 hours ago, Sunrise said:

No teams in juniors, amateurs, SPFL who have decent, if sometimes vulnerable, sources of income eh? 

Usual keyboard warrior jumps right in and takes everything out of context. It ain't a dig at LL teams but the reality of running a semi pro football team. Points make prizes and to get points you need money. Helps if you spend it wisely though.

[Guest]

I agree to a certain extent tutankhamen, although I suggest you would be surprised at how little some of the Lowland league budgets are compared to some junior clubs.

The LL teams will do the same as juniors in terms of sponsorship and fundraising, but they will not spend anywhere near as much on players.

The factor you may be missing is one that most fans don't realise or want to admit exists. LL teams are now attracting players from senior who would probably have went top league junior in the past, but nowadays players want to play the closest level of senior football from that which they have just left, like league 2 to LL as an example. I concede that there will still be some who go junior, most likely for more money than they would get in the LL, but this number has dropped considerably in the last couple of years as the LL has developed. But most clubs in the LL won't be offering wages that match junior sides. 

[Tutankhamen]

23 hours ago, G4Mac said:

I agree to a certain extent tutankhamen, although I suggest you would be surprised at how little some of the Lowland league budgets are compared to some junior clubs.

The LL teams will do the same as juniors in terms of sponsorship and fundraising, but they will not spend anywhere near as much on players.

The factor you may be missing is one that most fans don't realise or want to admit exists. LL teams are now attracting players from senior who would probably have went top league junior in the past, but nowadays players want to play the closest level of senior football from that which they have just left, like league 2 to LL as an example. I concede that there will still be some who go junior, most likely for more money than they would get in the LL, but this number has dropped considerably in the last couple of years as the LL has developed. But most clubs in the LL won't be offering wages that match junior sides. 

And that in turn will change again as the big guns in the Junior world fade into the Seniors.

[Guest]

Suppose it is all about opinions based on experiences. I was suggesting that from my experience that pretty much every top junior side from the east and west superlegue will pay considerably more than 80 to 90 % of LL clubs. Some LL teams will have a large budget, but most will operate well within their means and get their success through quality of coaching and management and attracting players from league 2 because its the closest level to that which players have just left. 

I believe that when the juniors move over, it will take for the top sides to reach the LL and beyond for the current position to change. But again that is only my opinion. Players will though try to stay 'senior' if they can, as going 'junior' isn't a viable option unless they are getting weighed in.... But these guys are few and far between now, where 5 or 6 years ago they were the norm and they bypassed the eosfl in favour of the junior route. 

I suppose only time will tell for what the future holds though. 

[Ginaro]

Talking of LL budgets - when searching for information on Selkirk's floodlights I found their application for funding, which also details their club accounts for 2015-16 (when they finished 12th for the second year running): https://scottishborders.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s16598/Item 8 - Application from Selkirk FC.pdf

 

[Cameron Wilson]

19 hours ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Some of the poorer ex SoS/EoS teams will fall down the pecking order but will have had enough a headstart they're gonna remain ahead of their junior equivalents for a long time to come.

Agree. But even so, after a few seasons, everyone will find their level and be playing against similar opponents of similar quality prior to the East region exodus. The likes of Eyemouth, Peebles, Coldstream will all be facing each other as before, just in a lower tier than before which they probably don't care about as most teams in the EoS, with a few exceptions, have not had any big ambitions to play at a higher level. Those that have shown an interest in the past, for example Preston, will face much more competition than before but ultimately that's good for the game.

As it stands now, the East region is pretty much finished. The best solution would be the EoS absorbs the rest of the East region teams south of the Tay, and the western region joins the pyramid en mass - otherwise the same collapse we saw in the East is going to happen this time next year in the west. I agree with a lot of others, I'm also concerned about the competence of the SFJA and their ability to deliver the pyramid and manage it properly. However for the sake of keeping the Junior's identity I hope TJ can step aside and have someone who knows what they are doing so the necessary changes can be made in time for full integration to happen by the start of 2019/2020 season. Keeping the Junior cup open to all former and current juniors would keep a sense of identity of the juniors going even for the east teams. Even better opening it up to all non-league teams would give the Juniors an expanded new meaning and purpose for the future.

Teams north of the tay, plus the north region as a whole, could join the pyramid under the Highland League. Not an ideal solution but the only really distant teams from the Dundee area are Wick and Brora.  This is the problem for the rest of the East region - the Tayside clubs  are in limbo between Highland and Lowland. But I don't see why the boundary has to be fixed. Teams in areas straddling the divide could be switched between Lowland and Highland leagues depending on circumstances. It would not be a clean and simple solution but I fear there is no such perfect answer and this may be the least worst solution.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Cameron Wilson

[AlanCamelonfan]

4 hours ago, Cameron Wilson said:

Agree. But even so, after a few seasons, everyone will find their level and be playing against similar opponents of similar quality prior to the East region exodus. The likes of Eyemouth, Peebles, Coldstream will all be facing each other as before, just in a lower tier than before which they probably don't care about as most teams in the EoS, with a few exceptions, have not had any big ambitions to play at a higher level. Those that have shown an interest in the past, for example Preston, will face much more competition than before but ultimately that's good for the game.

As it stands now, the East region is pretty much finished. The best solution would be the EoS absorbs the rest of the East region teams south of the Tay, and the western region joins the pyramid en mass - otherwise the same collapse we saw in the East is going to happen this time next year in the west. I agree with a lot of others, I'm also concerned about the competence of the SFJA and their ability to deliver the pyramid and manage it properly. However for the sake of keeping the Junior's identity I hope TJ can step aside and have someone who knows what they are doing so the necessary changes can be made in time for full integration to happen by the start of 2019/2020 season. Keeping the Junior cup open to all former and current juniors would keep a sense of identity of the juniors going even for the east teams. Even better opening it up to all non-league teams would give the Juniors an expanded new meaning and purpose for the future.

Teams north of the tay, plus the north region as a whole, could join the pyramid under the Highland League. Not an ideal solution but the only really distant teams from the Dundee area are Wick and Brora.  This is the problem for the rest of the East region - the Tayside clubs  are in limbo between Highland and Lowland. But I don't see why the boundary has to be fixed. Teams in areas straddling the divide could be switched between Lowland and Highland leagues depending on circumstances. It would not be a clean and simple solution but I fear there is no such perfect answer and this may be the least worst solution.

Thats what the south challenge cups for

[Robert James]

Will anything that is relevant to the future of the Juniors & the pyramid,  emerge from the West Region AGM today ?  Or will it be a bland no change meeting ? 

[FairWeatherFan]

3 hours ago, Robert James said:

Will anything that is relevant to the future of the Juniors & the pyramid,  emerge from the West Region AGM today ?  Or will it be a bland no change meeting ? 

How the Secretary positions are filled is probably the only real indicator for the future.

[Kilbowie Benches]

The West Region won’t discuss the pyramid.Thats TJ and the SJFAs remit.

[santheman]

4 hours ago, Robert James said:

Will anything that is relevant to the future of the Juniors & the pyramid,  emerge from the West Region AGM today ?  Or will it be a bland no change meeting ? 

Naw and Aye

[kenny131]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

How the Secretary positions are filled is probably the only real indicator for the future.

Will be carry on as normal nothing to see here.

[Garret Deasy]

The West Region won’t discuss the pyramid.Thats TJ and the SJFAs remit.

So the West Region is not part of the SJFA?

Or maybe you are just making it up as you go along to suit your own agenda? Makes you a suitable candidate to be a region committee member. [emoji37][emoji42][emoji137]

[santheman]

44 minutes ago, Garret Deasy said:

So the West Region is not part of the SJFA?

Or maybe you are just making it up as you go along to suit your own agenda? Makes you a suitable candidate to be a region committee member.

Still at the old "Juniors  are run by incompetents" routine Garret.

Yawn!!!!!

[Tutankhamen]

23 hours ago, Garret Deasy said:

So the West Region is not part of the SJFA?

Or maybe you are just making it up as you go along to suit your own agenda? Makes you a suitable candidate to be a region committee member.

You ever been to one of these meetings? It's more Royston Vasey than the Paris Commune. They'll go along with what (if anything) the SJFA come up with.