Junior football, what is the future?

[PRICEY]

Barring something unexpected happening, the top 5 clubs from each Conference will form the Premier Division in 2019/20.  The situation is not yet decided as to whom the 16th club will be, Possibly Clydebank ?  Not yet decided/announced.   

Surely an additions for season 19/20 would go into what I would take to be one of two regional leagues below the Premier?.

[th1stleandr0se]

47 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Barring something unexpected happening, the top 5 clubs from each Conference will form the Premier Division in 2019/20.  The situation is not yet decided as to whom the 16th club will be, Possibly Clydebank ?  Not yet decided/announced.   

While I wouldn't object to Clydebank being beamed into the Premier Division I think others might.  Also, would there be relegation from the Lowland League next season?  If so, then there might be one from the East of Scotland League exchanging places.  However, if it's a SoS team which wins promotion or if the relegated team from the LL is deemed to be a SoS team then all those numbers could change.  Given that there seems to be someone doing a good job with fixtures, presumably there are sets of rules in place to decide what happens in differing circumstances.  I'm feeling positive about this.

[Born To Run]

55 minutes ago, PRICEY said:

Surely an additions for season 19/20 would go into what I would take to be one of two regional leagues below the Premier?.

I'd expect so. Clydebank may be different (if a WoS doesn't come along) because they've applied early.

In the most likely scenario of the Bankies joining a new WoS instead and 15 clubs from the 3 forming a premier, there could be playoffs if needed between the 6th placed finishers. Depends on promotion and relegation.

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, Robert James said:

Barring something unexpected happening, the top 5 clubs from each Conference will form the Premier Division in 2019/20.  The situation is not yet decided as to whom the 16th club will be, Possibly Clydebank ?  Not yet decided/announced.   

Don't forget that one of that 15 will be promoted to the LL, and one (or possibly two) will be coming down.

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, PRICEY said:

 

Surely an additions for season 19/20 would go into what I would take to be one of two regional leagues below the Premier?.

 

Yes, new additions would go into the lower divisions. Clydebank is possibly an exception, as they did submit an application, but had to defer entry for a year because of ground problems. The redevelopment of their home ground is the official reason., But it has been rumoured that there have been other complications , best described on here as being 'circumstances beyond their control',  including, the start of the building works has apparently been delayed.

If a West pyramid feeder league is created next year, it is accepted that this would be their first preference rather than the EoSL.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Robert James

[Robert James]

43 minutes ago, th1stleandr0se said:

While I wouldn't object to Clydebank being beamed into the Premier Division I think others might.  Also, would there be relegation from the Lowland League next season?  If so, then there might be one from the East of Scotland League exchanging places.  However, if it's a SoS team which wins promotion or if the relegated team from the LL is deemed to be a SoS team then all those numbers could change.  Given that there seems to be someone doing a good job with fixtures, presumably there are sets of rules in place to decide what happens in differing circumstances.  I'm feeling positive about this.

agreed

[Truthteller]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

.....which unsurprisingly was wrong.

Gogsy is glad your back 

[Truthteller]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

League position

Cheers

[pumphy_man]

5 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

I understand the ERJFA President was present at the EoSFL AGM............

I would imagine he's not President anymore.

[Cameron Wilson]

After being absolutely fascinated by the moves from Junior to EOS league, I've been reading this forum for the past couple of months or so everyday to keep up with developments.  In part due to the almost total lack of any info elsewhere, as usual the media's more bothered about Stevie G's haircut than the most significant change in the fabric of Scottish football for years.  anyway, thought I should contribute rather than just being a voyeur.

Full disclosure - I have never been to a Junior game or other non-league game in Scotland. And, I think a pyramid system of some kind for all of Scottish football should have been established  a long time ago.

After reading this thread and the new clubs in the EOS thread in great detail, what strikes me most is the lack of recognition for the cultural aspects of the Junior game. These guys are the absolute heart and soul of football. They simply love football in its purest form - just football. No hype. No big names. No big competitions. No basking in the glory of a big club. No TV. No big stadiums or crowds. Just local football. If we didn't have guys like this, the game as a whole would not exist. I can understand some of the disappointment at some Junior clubs' reluctance to be part of the rest of Scottish football. But it's understandable. They don't want their purism to be diluted by having to be distracted by the obligations that come with moving up the pyramid. They simply want to focus on playing football in their regions. For me I can't respect these guys enough even if I think some can't see their own value in joining the rest of the Scottish game properly. The true spirit of Juniors is something we can all, as football fans, admire. I agree with the other posters, I don't think its totally unique to the Juniors, it's the same around other non-league competitions for the most part. But the Junior cup itself is something of great tradition and value. I think it should be opened up to all non-league clubs.

As for the way ahead for the Juniors. I think it's unfortunate what's happened with the mass exodus to the EOS. But that appears to be clearly a result of the Junior FA's failing. They appear to be stalling. Five years after the Pyramid discussions started, they're no further forward. Kelty deserve a lot of praise for being brave enough to be the first to make the leap and actually do something rather than just the endless talking of the SJFA. 

I think the clear way ahead is for the West Juniors to come under the Pyramid asap. Then there's no absolute need for a new separate WoSL. The structure and management is all there already in the we. I understand the likes of Achinleck aren't interesting in moving up the Pyramid. That's totally fair enough. But it's not right for other clubs to be held back. There's nothing wrong with making promotion optional at lower levels of the Pyramid. Then all clubs can find their level and the stronger teams can make a more direct contribution to the entire league system. I have never understood why the bigger junior teams, who obviously play, and attract crowds, at a standard similar to at least League 2, aren't part of the Scottish league. Scottish football is too small not to have everyone on the same page. I also think its best if all Junior clubs come under the pyramid. Otherwise there's always going to be a lingering instability from time to time of clubs' situations changing, leading them to consider changing grade to go senior. In short I don't see why the allure, romance and passion of Junior football has to vanish or be compromised by joining the Pyramid as a whole. Everyone can benefit.

One main problem right now is the non-League structure. Id suggest automatic relegation from League 2 as soon as possible with a play-off for second bottom. Because the Lowland League is soon going to have a decent number of teams willing and able to cut it at L2 level. The LL also has to open promotion and relegation right up to absorb the best the EOS and any WOS league have to offer. Quality teams have already made the jump to the senior system and its in everyones interest that they are able to move to their level sooner.

Anyway glad to join the debate, this post fair rambled on a bit.

 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Cameron Wilson

[daleboy1969]

55 minutes ago, Cameron Wilson said:

After being absolutely fascinated by the moves from Junior to EOS league, I've been reading this forum for the past couple of months or so everyday to keep up with developments.  In part due to the almost total lack of any info elsewhere, as usual the media's more bothered about Stevie G's haircut than the most significant change in the fabric of Scottish football for years.  anyway, thought I should contribute rather than just being a voyeur.

Full disclosure - I have never been to a Junior game or other non-league game in Scotland. And, I think a pyramid system of some kind for all of Scottish football should have been established  a long time ago.

After reading this thread and the new clubs in the EOS thread in great detail, what strikes me most is the lack of recognition for the cultural aspects of the Junior game. These guys are the absolute heart and soul of football. They simply love football in its purest form - just football. No hype. No big names. No big competitions. No basking in the glory of a big club. No TV. No big stadiums or crowds. Just local football. If we didn't have guys like this, the game as a whole would not exist. I can understand some of the disappointment at some Junior clubs' reluctance to be part of the rest of Scottish football. But it's understandable. They don't want their purism to be diluted by having to be distracted by the obligations that come with moving up the pyramid. They simply want to focus on playing football in their regions. For me I can't respect these guys enough even if I think some can't see their own value in joining the rest of the Scottish game properly. The true spirit of Juniors is something we can all, as football fans, admire. I agree with the other posters, I don't think its totally unique to the Juniors, it's the same around other non-league competitions for the most part. But the Junior cup itself is something of great tradition and value. I think it should be opened up to all non-league clubs.

As for the way ahead for the Juniors. I think it's unfortunate what's happened with the mass exodus to the EOS. But that appears to be clearly a result of the Junior FA's failing. They appear to be stalling. Five years after the Pyramid discussions started, they're no further forward. Kelty deserve a lot of praise for being brave enough to be the first to make the leap and actually do something rather than just the endless talking of the SJFA. 

I think the clear way ahead is for the West Juniors to come under the Pyramid asap. Then there's no absolute need for a new separate WoSL. The structure and management is all there already in the we. I understand the likes of Achinleck aren't interesting in moving up the Pyramid. That's totally fair enough. But it's not right for other clubs to be held back. There's nothing wrong with making promotion optional at lower levels of the Pyramid. Then all clubs can find their level and the stronger teams can make a more direct contribution to the entire league system. I have never understood why the bigger junior teams, who obviously play, and attract crowds, at a standard similar to at least League 2, aren't part of the Scottish league. Scottish football is too small not to have everyone on the same page. I also think its best if all Junior clubs come under the pyramid. Otherwise there's always going to be a lingering instability from time to time of clubs' situations changing, leading them to consider changing grade to go senior. In short I don't see why the allure, romance and passion of Junior football has to vanish or be compromised by joining the Pyramid as a whole. Everyone can benefit.

One main problem right now is the non-League structure. Id suggest automatic relegation from League 2 as soon as possible with a play-off for second bottom. Because the Lowland League is soon going to have a decent number of teams willing and able to cut it at L2 level. The LL also has to open promotion and relegation right up to absorb the best the EOS and any WOS league have to offer. Quality teams have already made the jump to the senior system and its in everyones interest that they are able to move to their level sooner.

Anyway glad to join the debate, this post fair rambled on a bit.

 

Good post . The clearly flawed pyramid system needed to be put right ( especially north off the tay) we have a large number of junior clubs with nowhere to go who are simply being abandoned by there once fellow clubs .we are asking the north clubs to embrace nothing and developed an im alright jack attitude ( not the junior way in my opinion) allas the spirit of junior football is being diluted in a dilusional gold rush . The problems should have been adressed from within .junior football will çontinue but the spirit is lost . 

[vikingTON]

The crocodile tears about the poor Junior clubs in the north is absolutely hilarious. An insignificant nuisance to the majority of Ayrshire and Central Belt Junior clubs right until the point that their beloved grade falls off a cliff into the sea; only now are they receiving the Helen Lovejoy treatment. 

Fooling absolutely no-one. 

[Marshmallo]

Which North clubs have been rejected from joining the pyramid? 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Marshmallo

[daleboy1969]

Just now, Marshmallo said:

Which North clubs have been rejected frlm the pyramid? 

They have nowhere to go .the highland league has no relegation or promotion in.  

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Cameron Wilson said:

After reading this thread and the new clubs in the EOS thread in great detail, what strikes me most is the lack of recognition for the cultural aspects of the Junior game. These guys are the absolute heart and soul of football. They simply love football in its purest form - just football. No hype. No big names. No big competitions. No basking in the glory of a big club. No TV. No big stadiums or crowds. Just local football. If we didn't have guys like this, the game as a whole would not exist. I can understand some of the disappointment at some Junior clubs' reluctance to be part of the rest of Scottish football. But it's understandable. They don't want their purism to be diluted by having to be distracted by the obligations that come with moving up the pyramid. They simply want to focus on playing football in their regions. For me I can't respect these guys enough even if I think some can't see their own value in joining the rest of the Scottish game properly. The true spirit of Juniors is something we can all, as football fans, admire. I agree with the other posters, I don't think its totally unique to the Juniors, it's the same around other non-league competitions for the most part. But the Junior cup itself is something of great tradition and value. I think it should be opened up to all non-league clubs.

- Despite about 17,000 references to 'Junior culture' over 530 pages, no-one has actually provided a coherent description of what it is and how it will be lost to the game. 

- They are no more or less fans of football than those in the senior national leagues or the non-leagues: 'claims like they are 'the heart and soul of the game' or necessary for 'the game as a whole to exist' are utterly trite pieces of nonsense.

- Absolutely nothing that you've said about football at Junior level wouldn't also apply to the South of Scotland or East of Scotland leagues, so is not in fact unique 'Junior culture'.

- There is no obligation on Junior clubs playing in the East of Scotland or other feeder league to make radical changes to 'move up the pyramid'. In reality, clubs will do so because it is obviously in their best interests to have a ground that isn't a complete hovel and to have new-fangled technology such as floodlights to increase their revenue and stop the nonsense of running a season into the second week in June. 

- The 'purism' 'or 'true spirit of the Juniors' is bollocks. We're not talking about an amateur setup where the players play for the love of the game and no compensation; it's simply a lower-grade version of semi-professional football, where the largest clubs or those backed by a local sugar daddy's money dominate the rest. 

The only difference between the Junior grade and the senior ranks is that the former is an archaic, closed-shop mess that is now finally being dissolved. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by vikingTON

[Jock Tamson]

So, what now for the East Superleague?

Is integration with the Highland League the only option that will be available to them for entry into the pyramid for season 19/20?



Sent from my SM-G955F using Pie and Bovril mobile app

[Marshmallo]

23 minutes ago, daleboy1969 said:

They have nowhere to go .the highland league has no relegation or promotion in.  

And how many clubs have tested this? 

[8MileBU]

 

You can’t even ask a civilised question. Whoever runs that account has totally lost the plot! [emoji1]

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

And how many clubs have tested this? 

As far as anyone is aware, none. The Highland League might not have promotion/relegation below it but it is open to application. A 19 team league, floodlights & a licence is proving a sufficient deterrent. It's going to need more than club to force a change.

The EoS had at least one enquiry from a North of Tay club. So there is in theory interest in the pyramid, just going to take convincing to go North.

 

[Truthteller]

Isa