Junior football, what is the future?

[Marten]

10 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

So it’s just for one year. If all goes well,  the  following season Camelon will be not quite back to where they started. If (unlikely) they are EoS champions they might get into the LL. Why would the crowds be turning out for Whitehill, Selkirk, Edusport, BSC when they don’t turn out for Superleague opposition?

 

 

First: some of the "lesser" LL teams will likely drop down sooner or later. Second: for every Edusport/BSC, there is an East Stirlingshire/Kelty/Spartans/EK etc.

[Robert James]

45 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

As I've said look at Dunipace. These clubs will improve  that were at deaths door in juniors. Camelon crowd be exact same and if the league is either of the two forecasted less travel. In one Coldstream and the other is st andrews the rest in both versions were Fife or Lothian clubs whough they' face anyway

Have a look at the Dunipace P&B forum, and you will see images of their proposed redevelopment. New and better signings as well.

I wonder why ?

 

[Jacksgranda]

6 minutes ago, Jambo'ness said:

 

And if the above is true, why do you keep banging on about it?  Are you scared that if next season's EoS proves successful, the west will turn senior too and Junior football will be all but gone, not dead, integrated into something that should have been done years ago?

Or, as I suspect, you are just a troll getting a thrill from every red dot you get.

Oh and spare answering that i'm a deluded soul.

"fool" - do get it right, please.

[Khufu2]

Why do you insist in inventing what I said? Where did I say money isn’t available and won’t be?

Of course, Dalkeith and Blackburn didn’t panic.  They had their own reasons for moving. The panic came from those who otherwise wouldn’t have moved and charged lemming-like after them.

Why  would you expect the standard to rise in the HL?

 

[Jacksgranda]

2 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Have a look at the Dunipace P&B forum, and you will see images of their proposed redevelopment. New and better signings as well.

I wonder why ?

 

pots of gold - milk - honey - handouts - promised land - money trees - manna 

[falkirktv]

51 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The only likely bump in attendance that Camelon would get is if they were to start challenging for the East Superleague. Since they haven't really been doing that of late, it would probably require the committee to run the club like a money pit.

SFA Pyramid might be a better chance for them to win back some support longer term compared to the financial black hole. Get into the EoS Premier as a mid level club against all their other traditional Superleague competition. Everything stays the same.

Then the repeat Superleague champions of the past get promoted and Camelon are suddenly in the spot of being a EoS Premier title challenger. Title challenge brings a wee bump in attendances, promotion brings a wee bump in attendances, battle relegation might bring a wee bump in attendances.

Staying as a perpetual mid level Superleague club wouldn't change anything and the gradual decline continues.

 

Correct add a club licence and Scottish cup entry and you have a sustainable model for the club, add in the youth system and you actually have a club with a direction, purpose and an objective. 

Or we could drift along with death by a thousand cuts.

[Jute]

1 hour ago, shuggie123 said:

Is being 6 or more promotions away from the top league not worse than 2? Most of the teams moving will be stuck in that position with no prospect of stepping up. It won't take long for the few fans they have to drift away when they have to pay £12 entry instead of £6.

Who charges £12. Not anybody in the EoS or Lowland League anyway. Some charged less than £6 though.

[GNU_Linux]

Who charges £12. Not anybody in the EoS or Lowland League anyway. Some charged less than £6 though.

To add to this even Edinburgh City don't charge 12 quid despite promotion to the big bad scary leagues with trips to Elgin.

[cmontheloknow]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

By being a member of a league which is part of the pyramid a club becomes a part of the pyramid.

There is no requirement, yet, at Tier6 for clubs to be Licenced. This appears to be a common misunderstanding.

In any case all of the non-licenced clubs in the 2017/18 EoS have been carrying out improvement/up-grades on and off pitch so they have improved their possibilities for becoming Licenced in future. Examples:

LTHV:  Now has cover at the ground.

Tynecastle: Next season playing at a ground which most clubs would give their eye teeth for.

Heriott-Watt Uni:  New Covered seated stands.

Ormiston: New ground.

Eyemouth United: Improvements to their ground.

Peebles Rovers: Getting their ground enclosed.

Tweedmouth Rangers  : Playing at Berwick Rangers' ground next season.

No misunderstanding on my part - point I was making was simply the EoS and SoS (especially the latter) became part of the pyramid with members under no compulsion to gain a Club License (and thus promotion upwards). Where's the 'commitment to the pyramid' that makes them different to the Juniors on the outside?

If you can only get a CL for committing to the pyramid, is it simply enough to be part of a league that was assimilated into the pyramid on grounds of history (right grade of football) and geography (right part of the country) when it comes to non-Full Member eligibility to the national cup? I don't think it's right to exclude the Juniors from the Scottish Cup until every club is on a level footing - i.e. there's a geographically and infrastructurally correct league at Senior/Pyramid level for all clubs to enter in (or opt out of). That blatantly is not the case right now with the glaring omissions beneath the LL in the West and beneath the HFL everywhere.

That said, once it is all in place and clubs make that decision - in or out - I  suppose there'd be grounds to revisit it.

Edited June 3, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[cmontheloknow]

For anyone asking re: ENTRY LEVEL for club Licensing:

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/2881/scottish-fa-club-licensing-manual-2018.pdf

Current clubs in it:

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/3584/club-licencing-current-status-2018.pdf

[Marten]

3 minutes ago, gogsy said:

A helipad next to the park.

Don't forget gold plated toilets that cost at least £ 150K.

[Jacksgranda]

8 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

13 minutes ago, Jute said:

Who charges £12. Not anybody in the EoS or Lowland League anyway. Some charged less than £6 though.

To add to this even Edinburgh City don't charge 12 quid despite promotion to the big bad scary leagues with trips to Elgin.

You missed out "on a wet Tuesday night in November"

[kefc]

32 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

So it’s just for one year. If all goes well,  the  following season Camelon will be not quite back to where they started. If (unlikely) they are EoS champions they might get into the LL. Why would the crowds be turning out for Whitehill, Selkirk, Edusport, BSC when they don’t turn out for Superleague opposition?

 

 

Unless Iv missed something I wasn’t pointing to Camelons attendances being boosted by moving, there’s obviously a better chance with fixture lists and however the clubs engages and markets itself. Camelon should be better off with the list of benefits frequently seen on this thread, a boost in attendances would be welcome but not paramount in the grand scheme of things.

I was alluding to the short termism of playing with all respect a lower level of opposition for Super/Premier League teams, theres a chance it would be for 1 year depending on how well they do. Season 19/20 once the levels are found will show a truer reflection of the structure in the East, a structure that will continue to improve.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Why do you insist in inventing what I said? Where did I say money isn’t available and won’t be?

Of course, Dalkeith and Blackburn didn’t panic.  They had their own reasons for moving. The panic came from those who otherwise wouldn’t have moved and charged lemming-like after them.

Why  would you expect the standard to rise in the HL?

 

Okay so now only some panicked.... Or did some have another look and weigh up their future, based on a multitude of reasons and choose to move? 

So you haven't said you don't think there is money there that everyone expects there to be..... Have I really got to go back and find the posts? 

As the standard of football in Scotland progresses so will the standard of leagues within the pyramid structure, I firmly believe the Highland league will also improve, maybe not at the same rate as the rest but it will improve.... Look at the bigger picture. 

Enjoy deflecting and denying.....just as a thought though, you still haven't said how you formed your views, where you have looked and what information you have used to come to your conclusions about the eosfl.....feel free, at any time to do so J.... 

[Marten]

1 minute ago, kefc said:

Unless Iv missed something I wasn’t pointing to Camelons attendances being boosted by moving, there’s obviously a better chance with fixture lists and however the clubs engages and markets itself. Camelon should be better off with the list of benefits frequently seen on this thread, a boost in attendances would be welcome but not paramount in the grand scheme of things.

I was alluding to the short termism of playing with all respect a lower level of opposition for Super/Premier League teams, theres a chance it would be for 1 year depending on how well they do. Season 19/20 once the levels are found will show a truer reflection of the structure in the East, a structure that will continue to improve.

How were your attendances like (LTHV game excluded) compared to when you were in the Juniors?

[kefc]

For a run of the mill league or cup game they were up. A home game v Peebles this season had more punters than a home fixture against Broughty last season for example.

Obviously our games v Boness, Linlithgow, Hill Of Beath would have boosted the seasons average last season but our core home support was definitely up by at least  50-75 due to a number of reasons ie marketing and an improved Matchday experience but the main reason which also had our hospitality selling out at all games was without doubt the fixture list.

But don’t read much into that improvement which in turn increased revenue undoubtably helped by the EOS fixture list and being part of the pyramid. We have all just moved to the land of milk and honey for handouts, deary me there’s no handouts  what there is though is a better structure to help improve and build a football club at the heart of a community.

Edited June 3, 2018 by kefc

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, kefc said:

For a run of the mill league or cup game they were up. A home game v Peebles this season had more punters than a home fixture against Broughty last season for example.

Obviously our games v Boness, Linlithgow, Hill Of Beath would have boosted the seasons average last season but our core home support was definitely up by about 50 due to a number of reasons ie marketing and an improved Matchday experience but the main reason which also had our hospitality selling out at all games was without doubt the fixture list.

But don’t read much into that improvement which in turn increased revenue undoubtably helped by the EOS fixture list and being part of the pyramid. We have all just moved to the land of milk and honey for handouts, deary me there’s no handouts  what there is though is a better structure to help improve and build a football club at the heart of a community.

But milk, honey and gold are a part of the staple eosfl diet kefc..... Fixture list, devil's illuminations and an improved community club operation that builds a long term sustainable future.....

Delusional you are! 

:-) 

[Jute]

49 minutes ago, gogsy said:

A helipad next to the park.

That’s at Eyemouth only.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

For a run of the mill league or cup game they were up. A home game v Peebles this season had more punters than a home fixture against Broughty last season for example.

Dont feel the need to defend yourselves re crowd sizes, there’s too many deluded folks on here just looking for a fight, one ‘Giant’ of the ayrshire game was quoted as boasting of an average away crowd in the hundreds when in reality theyve had paying away crowds of 5/6 this season. Ignore the folk trying to belittle attendances in the EOSL because many of them are either lying about or incapable of counting their own fans.

[Jute]

2 hours ago, Khufu2 said:

If you go to some of your newly-found friend’s grounds you won’t even find a wall to piss against.

So which of the current EoS grounds do not have toilet facilities then. I know Peebles share a toilet facility with neighbouring rugby club but cannot think of any of the others I have been to that do not have a toilets. Admittedly I have not been to them all but assuming you have been to be making such sweeping statements.