Junior football, what is the future?

[Khufu2]

9 minutes ago, Snafu said:

Don't you think that clubs should earn their place in a higher league through results on the pitch?

 

Yes, indeed, but you seemed more interested in facilities and pies than ability,  so I obliged.

As I've said several times it's difficult for the superior ex-juniors to move up and the mediocre LL teams to move down when there is a 1 up/1 down bottleneck. It doesn't matter how much better they are than the present incubents it's going to be many years before they all swap places.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Khufu2

[Khufu2]

13 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

I like Selkirk's ground - it's pretty unique in its own Heath Robinson way, and its set in a nice part of the country.

But then so is Lochburn.

Well, the first bit, anyway.

[Cyclizine]

It's going to be particularly difficult for any team to move up if they don't have a licence - until then it doesn't matter how many promotion places there are. I'm sure once there's a core of licenced teams in EoSFL (and obviously WoSFL) then the promotion / relegation slots will change. 

[Baxter's Nutmeg]

5 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Yes, indeed, but you seemed more interested in facilities and pies than ability,  so I obliged.

As I've said several times it's difficult for the superior ex-juniors to move up and the mediocre LL teams to move down when there is a 1 up/1 down bottleneck. It doesn't matter how much better they are than the present incubents it's going to be many years before they all swap places.

I can’t see LL teams voting for 2 down when there is no automatic promotion at the top.

[Khufu2]

Just now, Cyclizine said:

It's going to be particularly difficult for any team to move up if they don't have a licence - until then it doesn't matter how many promotion places there are. I'm sure once there's a core of licenced teams in EoSFL (and obviously WoSFL) then the promotion / relegation slots will change. 

From what the ex-juniors' supporters have been saying there'll be a whole raft of licensing in the next 12 months.

[Hillonearth]

19 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

But then so is Lochburn.

Well, the first bit, anyway.

Agreed. On the first bit...glass houses and so on.

[superbigal]

Boness have voted to leave and Larry is still slating the eos

[GordonS]

 
I’m sorry, but there’s a massive difference between the bottom of League 2 and the top of League 1. Massive.
 
One off cup games don’t mean anything.
 
As for Alloa’s attendances yes they are poor but they’re punching well above their weight and are extremely well run. The two part time teams directly below them, ourselves and Airdrie average around 800. You’ve picked Alloa to suit your argument.
 
There are a few clubs like Alloa who have done so very well off reasonably poor supports, Brechin/Cowden/Stranraer to an extent. All these teams show what can be achieved in the pyramid through being well run. It’s surely an argument for the pyramid instead of one against it.

You're not reading what I wrote. I said excluding the top clubs in L1.

One-off cup games mean something when you put a lot of them together. Then they're not one-off.

I picked Alloa because they're one of the two best part time clubs in the country in recent years, and got promoted this year. Hardly cherrypicking.

And Airdrie's attendances are shocking for a town that size and a club that used to regularly be in the to division. They should be getting at least what QotS get, and arguably what Hamilton or Falkirk get.

[heedthebaa]

Nice one Bo’ness 

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 minute ago, superbigal said:

Boness have voted to leave and Larry is still slating the eos

HE obviously doesn’t realise its a football team just playing in a different league at worst be no worse off

[Khufu2]

8 minutes ago, Snafu said:

Do you know about the voting system within the pyramid?

Its going to be many years for ex Junior clubs if they don't get their SFA licenses. Only 4 clubs currently hold licenses in the EOSL and are eligible for promotion to the LL, that is to my knowledge.

This is the point I'm making, for many years junior clubs have focused cash into building strong teams in short term gain arms races with their rivals rather than spend money on ground improvements. This has changed recently with more clubs applying more attention towards their facilities both for the club and its supporters. Some even moving to new grounds. If your club cannot achieve a SFA license regardless of how good the team is on the pitch you won't go up.

 

You can be sure if the likes of Selkirk, Coldstream and Girvan can achieve a license there is a large number of junior clubs who will also be able to achieve one.  The criteria are not particularly demanding.

[Khufu2]

21 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

Agreed. On the first bit...glass houses and so on.

Giza's rather nice at this time of year.

[GordonS]

In terms of facilities and community engagement I cant think of any club which can beat Spartans in the junior game?
Then lets consider other LL grounds, Kelty’s is cracking, again show me a better junior ground? Broadwood (ok some purists may not like it but its a great facility).
Lets also consider the other grounds via groundshare in the LL, Falkirk stadium and Alloa, two cracking facilities, again what junior ground is superior? Gretnas ground also excellent. Im baffled anyone would try argue against your point.

With no criticism to Spartans at all, I can easily name 20 Junior grounds off the top of my head I'd rather watch football at than Ainslie Park. It has one low tin seated stand set a fair distance back and nothing else at all. It has no terracing and no covered standing area. There's a bit of raised grass banking but it's quite low and shallow. Almost all spectators gather on 1.5 sides. It's also 3G, which is alright but still inferior to grass.

Parking is tricky too, and public transport from outside of Edinburgh means a long bus journey to and from the centre.

I've no idea what community stuff Spartans do so I'll have to take your word on that. A fair number of Junior clubs have Quality Mark Community Awards.

Until their new stand is built, Kelty is behind Spartans.

Falkirk??? Now you're just having a laugh.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, GordonS said:

Oh, and in general this is a thing that really, really pisses me off.

It's possible for someone to have a completely different perspective from you and not be ignorant.

I wasn't saying you were not entitled to a different perspective, and to be fair having family that play for a club doesn't guarantee you know what the club, in its entirety, offers in terms of a community club. (I worked for the club for 2 seasons and know the work that goes in to making it part of the community) 

It may well frustrate you that I disagree with your take on what a club offers, however in this instance I think I can hold such an opinion given my time there. 

And I also feel that it may be entirely possible that your definition of a community club may be vastly different to mines... Which is also fine. 

I don't buy into the whole crowd concern as I said previously so for me it doesn't matter who makes your crowd up, or how many attend. But again that's is just my take on that argument. 

[Hillonearth]

4 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Giza's rather nice at this time of year.

Especially in a state of de Nile

[GordonS]

I wasn't saying you were not entitled to a different perspective, and to be fair having family that play for a club doesn't guarantee you know what the club, in its entirety, offers in terms of a community club. (I worked for the club for 2 seasons and know the work that goes in to making it part of the community) 
It may well frustrate you that I disagree with your take on what a club offers, however in this instance I think I can hold such an opinion given my time there. 
And I also feel that it may be entirely possible that your definition of a community club may be vastly different to mines... Which is also fine. 
I don't buy into the whole crowd concern as I said previously so for me it doesn't matter who makes your crowd up, or how many attend. But again that's is just my take on that argument. 

It didn't frustrate me that you had a different opinion. It frustrated me that you dismissed my opinion by saying "well, you obviously don't know what you're talking about."

Ask around. Few football fans are excited by the prospect of watching the adult section of a youth club play before family and friends in an all-seater stadium with 8,000 seats. The Colts may be great at what they do, and all teams started somewhere, but that's just how it is for now.

[Khufu2]

10 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Mid table mediocre team according to Khufu2

Good enough for the LoL though.

[Khufu2]

10 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

Especially in a state of de Nile

[Jambo'ness]

17 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Mid table mediocre team according to Khufu2

I'd rather my team was mid-table and mediocre in the EoS than be under the rule of TJ and Co.  I'm not slating Junior football, it's been great but the leadership has been horrendous and is one of the main reasons I'm glad to see us leave.

[ShahktarYerMaw]

West League. Discussions ongoing. Keep an eye on here for updates next week.