Junior football, what is the future?

[Fife Journeyman]

25 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

One of the benefits for some clubs seems to be Tom Johnston doing his best to put you out of business if what i’ve heard is correct, hopefully be able to confirm the circumstances soon, but some very underhand tactics at play.

if its do do with HMRC and National Minimum Wage looks like the captain of the ship is willing too take down most of his passengers with him,

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Marten said:

I red dot posts when I see insults (like monkeys and other unacceptable posts. That often includes your posts. I don't red dot people I disagree with just because of disagreeing with it, as long as that post is in a respectable manner, fine, agree to disagree.

You misinterpret the Monkeys reference, it is not calling people monkeys although ironically we all are! However, I can't use this term anymore, I have been warned by the mods, I do however reserve the right to quote other people who use it. Democracy?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

if its do do with HMRC and National Minimum Wage looks like the captain of the ship is willing too take down most of his passengers with him,

No it was a direct attack against one club.

[kefc]

1 hour ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Are we ever going to get an answer to what "Junior Tradition" is or what makes junior football different to other non-league football or any an all-in non-league cup competition wouldn't be as good as - if not better than - the current Junior Cup or why EoS and Lowland League clubs aren't as big a part of their community as Junior clubs (look at Kelty's social media output since winning the EoS and tell me they don't fully engage in the community) or why it's OK to slag off poor crowds in the EoS and Lowland leagues but not the Junior leagues? Even an answer to one of those questions would be good tbh.

Good post and for an example on the social media we had 4550 followers on Twitter the morning of our Lothian Thistle match, by the Sunday we had over 5000. 450 new followers in 24 hours, a number that usually takes 12 months to get. Facebook was the same theme.

Im sure Bonyrigg had the same impact on their social media with their Senior Scottish Cup run. Thats the exposure box ticked for us being a senior club which in turn over the season has increased crowds, hospitality uptake, season tickets, sponsorship, community and national awarenes in the football club.

By competing regulary in the Senior game and national cup competitions over the years the exposure will rise again helping to market and grow from all angles.

[Jeek]

Genuine question. Don't you think it would be better and easier to make changes from the inside rather than sitting outside and throwing stones?

A lot of the staunch (not like that) junior teams appear to be following the old; 'first they ignore you...' thing. The UK has a history of this.

Whereas if they got in sooner, by now they could have had auto promotion to the LL, maybe even 2. Remember this would also be favoured by a lot of those teams already in it as it's no secret that a team like Clydebank will bring more support than Hawick or CSS.

It seems like the juniors know they've screwed up but are just going to hold on anyway.

[BoomShakalaka]

2 hours ago, BENJI BOY said:

You need to change your script writer or leave off the free cider and whacky baccy...or is it Irish Mist or Jamiesons.

Cider is never free !

[The Moonster]

17 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Be under no elusion, Junior Football has no say, take it or leave it is the deal, so no more rubbish about dialog or pros and cons, there are no pros in Junior football as far as the dancers to the tune are concerned. I know this, so why don't you form a pyramid forum and give us all peace. You won, the Pyramid will only be what those in charge want it to be with zero input from the Juniors. The tail wags the dog well done!

Toys everywhere. Glorious.

[BoomShakalaka]

2 hours ago, BENJI BOY said:

No but they have had large amounts of taxpayers money pumped into them that the successful Penicuik team hasn't.

 

Easthouses have had work done but have Dalkeith? Elaborate?

[BoomShakalaka]

2 hours ago, BENJI BOY said:

No I don't and it is another strand of your persistent juvenile drivel on here.. Regarding the Season Ticket production at the gate..my two friends at my back were waved through but insisted on showing theirs.....your Gate person was just a wee bit embarrassed at that action.

My gate person? I think you will find its a requirement to produce a season ticket for entry.

Man you have some massive chip on your shoulder - always greetin

[A.M]

When I look at this thread now there appears to be more posters from senior teams than junior teams.

I also notice that some of the more persistent posters are from fans of teams who have already jumped or about to jump to the EOS.

I just dont understand this, if your team has made the decision YOU are happy with why are you continually campaigning for other teams to leave ? We are continually being told by some of you guys that the teams who have jumped are doing so for the best interests of their club , that is fine , why dont you practice what you preach and leave the other clubs to make their own choice of what is best for their clubs without the anti junior propaganda ?

I will now sit behind my shield and wait for the barrage of pro pyramid bullets as always appears to happen when anybody has a differing view to the certain few.

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

When I look at this thread now there appears to be more posters from senior teams than junior teams.
I also notice that some of the more persistent posters are from fans of teams who have already jumped or about to jump to the EOS.
I just dont understand this, if your team has made the decision YOU are happy with why are you continually campaigning for other teams to leave ? We are continually being told by some of you guys that the teams who have jumped are doing so for the best interests of their club , that is fine , why dont you practice what you preach and leave the other clubs to make their own choice of what is best for their clubs without the anti junior propaganda ?
I will now sit behind my shield and wait for the barrage of pro pyramid bullets as always appears to happen when anybody has a differing view to the certain few.
 

Id be absolutely delighted for Talbot to remain junior and hope they can add many many new stars. I wish Talbot nothing but increased success as a junior club! X

[kleptomaniac]

Easthouses have had work done but have Dalkeith? Elaborate?

Easthouses, Dalkeith and Penicuik all lease their parks from MDC. MDC have upgraded each facility through surrounding fencing, upgraded changing rooms and installing floodlights.

[Marten]

I have no problem with people watching & enjoying junior football. I regularly watch non-league football, both junior and senior, which I love & enjoy. I just still don't think there is much of a difference. At both senior and junior non-league football I have visited proper community clubs, generally paid a very fair ticket price and encountered friendly people & hard working volunteers who clearly care about their club. I have seen good and poor attendances & standards of football at both. To me, non-league is non-league, it's something I love and regularly watch, but all the "advantages" of junior football, also exist in senior non-league football, so I just don't see the big problem. I have yet to be convinced about 1 good thing of junior football that can't happen in a pyramid. Yes, there is the junior cup, but I see no reason why that can't be expanded to include all of non-league. And let's be honest, for the vast majority of junior sides, the junior cup is not something they can realistically win. That doesn't make these clubs any less of a community club.

Many of the "arguments" against the pyramid are a result of the non-participation of the SJFA. No, I'm not a fan of Edusport, but would they honestly have been in the LL now if they'd first have to battle past the strong west juniors like Auchinleck Talbot and others? They played it by the rules and have every right to be where they are, but they wouldn't have been at that level in a proper pyramid. Poorly supported teams exist on both sides of the "divide". Anti-pyramid posters like to point out that the pyramid is "flawed", but with most non-league clubs not taking part, it's always going to be flawed. Had all juniors been in it, then there would have been better promotion/relegation for example. The standard now drops rapidly when you go down the leagues, with more strong teams that would be far less the case so there would be a much stronger case for a better promotion/relegation settlement. And finally, how can people claim that in a pyramid the juniors would have no say if they have literally refused to properly engage all those years?

Edited May 17, 2018 by Marten

[Burnie_man]

31 minutes ago, A.M said:

When I look at this thread now there appears to be more posters from senior teams than junior teams.

I also notice that some of the more persistent posters are from fans of teams who have already jumped or about to jump to the EOS.

I just dont understand this, if your team has made the decision YOU are happy with why are you continually campaigning for other teams to leave ? We are continually being told by some of you guys that the teams who have jumped are doing so for the best interests of their club , that is fine , why dont you practice what you preach and leave the other clubs to make their own choice of what is best for their clubs without the anti junior propaganda ?

I will now sit behind my shield and wait for the barrage of pro pyramid bullets as always appears to happen when anybody has a differing view to the certain few.

 

Some of the stuff being posted by Talbot contributors really is gobsmacking stuff, it's like they have got together and decided it's all some sort of conspiracy.  If you seriously think that posts on an internet forum have a major impact on clubs moving, you are being highly disrespectful to the clubs concerned who are more than capable of making a fact based decision for themselves. It's laughable nonsense that people genuinely believe that is the case!!

You aren't providing a differing view,  nobody has presented a differing view outlining the benefits of remaining Junior. You are absolutely free to do so, but nobody appears capable. Maybe we therefore just have to assume there are none.

Meanwhile, the SJFA remain silent as to what was the outcome of last weeks PWG meeting. If it was positive news we would have heard it by now.

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Burnie_man

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, Marten said:

I have no problem with people watching & enjoying junior football. I regularly watch non-league football, both junior and senior, which I love & enjoy. I just still don't think there is much of a difference. At both senior and junior non-league football I have visited proper community clubs, generally paid a very fair ticket price and encountered friendly people & hard working volunteers who clearly care about their club. I have seen good and poor attendances & standards of football at both. To me, non-league is non-league, it's something I love and regularly watch, but all the "advantages" of junior football, also exist in senior non-league football, so I just don't see the big problem. I have yet to be convinced about 1 good thing of junior football that can't happen in a pyramid. Yes, there is the junior cup, but I see no reason why that can't be expanded to include all of non-league. And let's be honest, for the vast majority of junior sides, the junior cup is not something they can realistically win. That doesn't make these clubs any less of a community club.

Many of the "arguments" against the pyramid are a result of the non-participation of the SJFA. No, I'm not a fan of Edusport, but would they honestly have been in the LL now if they'd first have to battle past the strong west juniors like Auchinleck Talbot and others? They played it by the rules and have every right to be where they are, but they wouldn't have been at that level in a proper pyramid. Poorly supported teams exist on both sides of the "divide". Anti-pyramid posters like to point out that the pyramid is "flawed", but with most non-league clubs not taking part, it's always going to be flawed. Had all juniors been in it, then there would have been better promotion/relegation for example. The standard now drops rapidly when you go down the leagues, with more strong teams that would be far less the case so there would be a much stronger case for a better promotion/relegation settlement. And finally, how can people claim that in a pyramid the juniors would have no say if they have literally refused to properly engage all those years?

A very good summary of the situation Marten.

[Jason King]

56 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Red dot me all you want, a back handed complement. But what I do care about is that it is all designed to quell me from putting a spoke in the wheel of the anti Junior campaign.

The Juniors within the Pyramid are effyouseekade, the resentment towards them is clear and they have no role now in any pyramid other than to conform. Over and above that some smell blood and see an opportunity to stick the boot in, which is happening under the guise of a thread about the future of the grade. In short it sucks, not because people have a poor opinion of the grade, but because they pretend otherwise whilst plotting it's demise. Why do this? Because they see the opportunity to continually turn heads of clubs within our grade with stories of silk and money whilst cultivating a bad mouth campaign aimed at the grade eventually creating its collapse. The icing on the cake being the big clubs like Talbot having to start at the bottom, firmly in their place.

Be under no elusion, Junior Football has no say, take it or leave it is the deal, so no more rubbish about dialog or pros and cons, there are no pros in Junior football as far as the dancers to the tune are concerned. I know this, so why don't you form a pyramid forum and give us all peace. You won, the Pyramid will only be what those in charge want it to be with zero input from the Juniors. The tail wags the dog well done!

 

[Jason King]

45 minutes ago, Jeek said:

It seems like the WEST juniors know they've screwed up but are just going to hold on anyway.

FTFY

[Jason King]

37 minutes ago, A.M said:

When I look at this thread now there appears to be more posters from senior teams than junior teams.

I also notice that some of the more persistent posters are from fans of teams who have already jumped or about to jump to the EOS.

I just dont understand this, if your team has made the decision YOU are happy with why are you continually campaigning for other teams to leave ? We are continually being told by some of you guys that the teams who have jumped are doing so for the best interests of their club , that is fine , why dont you practice what you preach and leave the other clubs to make their own choice of what is best for their clubs without the anti junior propaganda ?

I will now sit behind my shield and wait for the barrage of pro pyramid bullets as always appears to happen when anybody has a differing view to the certain few.

 

OK, lets ask a different Talbot fan seeing as the other one will not answer the question -

What are the benefits of staying in the Junior "grade" as opposed to the oft quoted benefits of becoming a senior club in the pyramid?

I have to admit to being disappointed in the lack of debate coming from the 'Bot fans - its all deflection and insults without any answers. Its no surprise that they appear destined to be left behind.

[A.M]

14 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Some of the stuff being posted by Talbot contributors really is gobsmacking stuff, it's like they have got together and decided it's all some sort of conspiracy.  If you seriously think that posts on an internet forum have a major impact on clubs moving, you are being highly disrespectful to the clubs concerned who are more than capable of making a fact based decision for themselves. It's laughable nonsense that people genuinely believe that is the case!!

You aren't providing a differing view,  nobody has presented a differing view outlining the benefits of remaining Junior. You are absolutely free to do so, but nobody appears capable. Maybe we therefore just have to assume there are none.

Meanwhile, the SJFA remain silent as to what was the outcome of last weeks PWG meeting. If it was positive news we would have heard it by now.

 

What part of my post is laughable nonsense ?

The laughable nonsense is that you seem to be sitting like a vulture waiting to pounce on anyone who doesn’t toe the pyramid line. 

I was making an observation , not talking pro or anti, and not talking on behalf of any team. 

[Burnie_man]

44 minutes ago, A.M said:

why are you continually campaigning for other teams to leave ?

why dont you practice what you preach and leave the other clubs to make their own choice of what is best for their clubs without the anti junior propaganda ?

 

1 minute ago, A.M said:

What part of my post is laughable nonsense ?

I have highlighted it for you, this follows on from another Talbot posters assertions that there is some sort of conspiracy, some sort of "campaign" to entice Junior clubs to move, and there is some sort of "anti-Junior propaganda"  war going on.  It's laughable nonsense.