Junior football, what is the future?

[Khufu2]

47 minutes ago, Robert James said:

If Talbot  wishes to remain outside the pyramid, that is their right. They probably won't be the only club which takes this stance, particularly some of the Ayrshire juniors. 

What Talbot needs to accept though, is that some other West clubs (eg Clydebank) feel differently and are in favour of joining the pyramid. Clydebank and others, including SoSL clubs, also have the right to make their own decision, now or in the future.  Respect on both sides of the West debate, is needed please

I'm sure Talbot and other west clubs will join the pyramid. If it makes sense. With better clubs sitting higher in the pyramid than mediocre ones. The east junior defectors have now totally ballsed up much chance of a sensible pyramid structure in the East.  Luckily it's a clean slate in the West.

So whereas Bo'ness and Linlithgow may end up a division or two below Eyemouth and Tweedmouth and a club that has never played a game of adult football, the west section of the pyramid could well reflect relative abilities. If they've any sense Bo'ness and Linlithgow should consider joining forces with more westerly clubs. the competition will be better too.

[vikingTON]

27 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

The level of contempt for a highly prestigious club tournament as the Junior Cup is honestly preposterous. 

The only thing preposterous here is that you think that a trophy that has failed to get a credible sponsor since time immemorial can be considered 'hlghly prestigious'. The two bob and a tangerine that your level can provide to the winner says otherwise, loudly and clearly, to everyone else in the Scottish game. 

The delusions about your setup are crumbling all around you. 

[tombrown]

Oh well said!!! its about playing in these tears what its all about.your correct the time to debate travel is when you join a league and play towards being in a position to go the next step within the national leagues at tear 3 and 4

[Khufu2]

6 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

Three years ago Armadale v Broughty Athletic in a play off on a Wednesday night for a place in East Region Junior Super League attracted just over 600. 892 attending a play off for the second tier of The SPFL reflects the state of Senior football in Scotland. I am sick and tired of people criticising junior football, the senior game at tiers 3 and 4 is a joke with most crowds attracting only hundreds.

I have to say I was shocked at the poor crowd at Tannadice last night - 5,600 for a Premiership play-off semi-final. Especially when you consider Lochee United attracted getting on for 2000 for a Junior cup semi-final a couple of weeks earlier. 

[Born To Run]

2 hours ago, GordonS said:

And I find it ridiculous that part-time football clubs with average attendances in the hundreds play national level football. I could call people childish for thinking it makes them special or important or relevant or ambitious.

Or people could just maybe stop insulting each other and respect the fact that not everyone likes the same things? You're fine regularly travelling several hours round trip to watch the same teams four times a season for over £20 a match. Great, I hope it works out well for you. Lots of other football supporters don't. Neither is superior. Live and let live, man.

 

At the risk of going against the grain here, I think Gordon makes a decent point - it does seem a little odd for a country of our population to have this many sides at “national” rather than “regional“ level.

If we were starting a totally new structure without limits, chances are less clubs would find themselves at a “national” level. However, there are no complaints about travel from any SPFL clubs that I’m aware of, so no issue exists.

Lord knows the last thing we need are more problems for the negotiations ahead! 

[Khufu2]

12 minutes ago, virginton said:

The only thing preposterous here is that you think that a trophy that has failed to get a credible sponsor since time immemorial can be considered 'hlghly prestigious'. The two bob and a tangerine that your level can provide to the winner says otherwise, loudly and clearly, to everyone else in the Scottish game. 

The delusions about your setup are crumbling all around you. 

Out of interest, what was the prize money for the Football Nation cupwinners? This is the premier cup competition  for the senior non-league sides in the southern half of the country. Attendance at the final: 130.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Khufu2

[Khufu2]

4 minutes ago, Born To Run said:

At the risk of going against the grain here, I think Gordon makes a decent point - it does seem a little odd for a country of our population to have this many sides at “national” rather than “regional“ level.

If we were starting a totally new structure without limits, chances are less clubs would find themselves at a “national” level. However, there are no complaints about travel from any SPFL clubs that I’m aware of, so no issue exists.

Lord knows the last thing we need are more problems for the negotiations ahead! 

It goes back to the age old question. Will you get better crowds for games against local rivals or against perhaps marginally better teams from further away.  An earlier post mentions 12 Dumbarton fans at Peterhead. How many more would you get if they were playing at Coatbridge or Cumbernauld?

[Born To Run]

1 minute ago, Khufu2 said:

Out of interest, what was the prize money for the Football Nation cupwinners? This is the premier cup competition  for the senior non-league sides in the southern half of the country. Attendance: 130.

The South Challenge Cup is the premier cup in the Lowland, with the final still to come.

This thread has quickly descended into “our crowd/prize money is bigger than yours”. Totally irrelevant.

[Vollyman]

I have to say I was shocked at the poor crowd at Tannadice last night - 5,600 for a Premiership play-off semi-final. Especially when you consider Lochee United attracted getting on for 2000 for a Junior cup semi-final a couple of weeks earlier. 
I was referring to SPFL leagues1 and2 when do they ever attract 2000? Probably nearer 200

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

I'm sure Talbot and other west clubs will join the pyramid. If it makes sense. With better clubs sitting higher in the pyramid than mediocre ones. The east junior defectors have now totally ballsed up much chance of a sensible pyramid structure in the East.  Luckily it's a clean slate in the West.

So whereas Bo'ness and Linlithgow may end up a division or two below Eyemouth and Tweedmouth and a club that has never played a game of adult football, the west section of the pyramid could well reflect relative abilities. If they've any sense Bo'ness and Linlithgow should consider joining forces with more westerly clubs. the competition will be better too.

Nobody has ballsed anything up, the EoS would still have existed if no Junior club had applied and therefore still the same issues would be present in the East, and if nobody had applied we would not be discussing the Juniors moving at all anyway it would be parochial business as usual.

Can you tell me what the agreed solution is to the Juniors joining the Pyramid and when? and what was the result of the Junior EGM, did everyone agree to joining?  Do you know the attitude of the EoS towards an orderly integration of remaining clubs?

Oh that’s right, nothing has actually happened yet and no discussions have even taken place. The only people ballsing anything up is the SJFA, for the last umpteen years until they were jolted into doing something about it, even then their attitude leaves a lot to be desired.

I’m surprised only 15 clubs have left so far to be honest.

[Khufu2]

1 minute ago, Born To Run said:

The South Challenge Cup is the premier cup in the Lowland, with the final still to come.

This thread has quickly descended into “our crowd/prize money is bigger than yours”. Totally irrelevant.

What's the prize money like in the South Challenge Cup then? Who are its sponsors?

Edited May 8, 2018 by Khufu2

[vikingTON]

2 minutes ago, Born To Run said:

At the risk of going against the grain here, I think Gordon makes a decent point - it does seem a little odd for a country of our population to have this many sides at “national” rather than “regional“ level.

Why did you choose 'population' as your metric instead of more relevant ones such as 'attendances at matches'?  Scotland can sustain many more sides at a national level because far, far more Scots attend SPFL football than the domestic leagues of countries with a comparable population; it's very straightforward. 

[Jock Tamson]

Assuming the boundary does not get reviewed.

Is it on the agenda to revisit this?

[vikingTON]

6 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Out of interest, what was the prize money for the Football Nation cupwinners? This is the premier cup competition  for the senior non-league sides in the southern half of the country. Attendance at the final: 130.

I don't recall anyone claiming that the above competition was "highly prestigious" champ; try again. 

[AlanCamelonfan]

20 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

Three years ago Armadale v Broughty Athletic in a play off on a Wednesday night for a place in East Region Junior Super League attracted just over 600. 892 attending a play off for the second tier of The SPFL reflects the state of Senior football in Scotland. I am sick and tired of people criticising junior football, the senior game at tiers 3 and 4 is a joke with most crowds attracting only hundreds.

Juniors was a great thing but its done nowith.  It' time to move on. Ive had 23 years of supporting camelon in the juniors and lovedette it but like most things all good things come to an end.

[Robert James]

10 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

I have to say I was shocked at the poor crowd at Tannadice last night - 5,600 for a Premiership play-off semi-final. Especially when you consider Lochee United attracted getting on for 2000 for a Junior cup semi-final a couple of weeks earlier. 

The Junior Cup has history and traditions. Would you be in favour of allowing senior N/L clubs to enter it, as an integrated Non League competition, similar to the FA Trophy in England  ?

[Khufu2]

1 minute ago, virginton said:

Why did you choose 'population' as your metric instead of more relevant ones such as 'attendances at matches'?  Scotland can sustain many more sides at a national level because far, far more Scots attend SPFL football than the domestic leagues of countries with a comparable population; it's very straightforward. 

Now do the calculation without Rangers and Celtic.

[Khufu2]

1 minute ago, Robert James said:

The Junior Cup has history and traditions. Would you be in favour of allowing senior N/L clubs to enter it, as an integrated Non League competition, similar to the FA Trophy in England  ?

Absolutely.  I suspect the likes of Eyemouth, Tweedmouth, Blackburn  and Inverkeithing whotsits won't want to be involved with the inferior juniors though.

[AlanCamelonfan]

9 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

Out of interest, what was the prize money for the Football Nation cupwinners? This is the premier cup competition  for the senior non-league sides in the southern half of the country. Attendance at the final: 130.

Actually it isn'.t. the south challenge cup is

[The Moonster]

2 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

Three years ago Armadale v Broughty Athletic in a play off on a Wednesday night for a place in East Region Junior Super League attracted just over 600. 892 attending a play off for the second tier of The SPFL reflects the state of Senior football in Scotland. I am sick and tired of people criticising junior football, the senior game at tiers 3 and 4 is a joke with most crowds attracting only hundreds.

It's funny - I never hear the chairmen or fans of League 1 and 2 sides come out and complain about how much of a joke their league set up.  You would think with them having a vote they could exercise that things would change if the league system was a joke.  Yet, all we hear from junior fans is that it's a joke. I'm sure you could quote numerous crowd figures from the juniors which match the seniors - yet junior clubs are jumping ship faster than bodies flying off the Titanic. Funny that junior clubs are jumping to join such a joke.

3 minutes ago, Khufu2 said:

It goes back to the age old question. Will you get better crowds for games against local rivals or against perhaps marginally better teams from further away.  An earlier post mentions 12 Dumbarton fans at Peterhead. How many more would you get if they were playing at Coatbridge or Cumbernauld?

Barely many more, 100 for a run of the mill game maybe? We're a small club and quite why folk expect us to take thousands to any game is anyone's guess.