Junior football, what is the future?

[cmontheloknow]

19 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

It could be slightly more accurate, but his message is "Integrate into the Pyramid or die a slow death", I don't think that is really undermined.

His message as ever is amplified and distorted through the egotistical Leckie Prism. I'd wager he knows little about the grassroots game compared to some of the posters on here and while his message will be read by more people than messages here are, I'm not sure it will have any increased effect or impact on the blockaded Junior Towers branch of Hampden. While I agree overall with the sentiment, the piece is not evidence-based and doesn't really offer much constructive advice for how to go about integration. It's just a Leckie hector. The whole point about Juniors in the 'big' cup really gets my goat to be honest. Him and that arse Des McKeown can ram it. Sideways!

Edited April 30, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

His message as ever is amplified and distorted through the egotistical Leckie Prism. I'd wager he knows little about the grassroots game compared to some of the posters on here and while his message will be read by more people than messages here are, I'm not sure it will have any increased effect or impact on the blockaded Junior Towers branch of Hampden. While I agree overall with the sentiment, the piece is not evidence-based and doesn't really offer much constructive advice for how to go about integration. It's just a Leckie hector. The whole point about Juniors in the 'big' cup really gets my goat to be honest. Him and that arse Des McKeown can ram it. Sideways!

LOL! I'm not a big fan of Leckie by any stretch, him or McKeown or that rag of a paper for that matter, but I'm glad that he at least has raised the issue in the mainstream press.

[cmontheloknow]

21 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

LOL! I'm not a big fan of Leckie by any stretch, him or McKeown or that rag of a paper for that matter, but I'm glad that he at least has raised the issue in the mainstream press.

I agree. A bit of an open goal missed by him though - I've not read Southy's twitter comments but the fact he manages a club that voted against the pyramid seems to have escaped Leckie's attention too.

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[Nimmo's Notes]

A few folk bemoaning the fact that entry to the pyramid system will result in going from paying 6 quid to get in, a pie for a pound, and being able to wander around the ground, to paying 20 quid to get in, £2.50 for a pie and being tied to a seat by a steward. 

Well, let's say every Junior club joined the system, what's that, 100+ clubs? Add to that all the Lowland, Highland, East and South clubs. 

Out of all that lot, there is ONE place up for grabs in the super shiny Scottish League......possibly.........if you can come through 4 playoff games! Chances are, that match day experience you enjoy in the non league divisions of Scotland is going to remain much the same. 

Onwards and upwards is there for you if you really go for it but for everyone going upwards there is someone going downwards, while most will remain the same. 

Personally, I believe it's an exciting time for Scottish football. All they have to do now is sort out the Scottish League itself and create leagues of 16 throughout and do away with playing teams 4 times a season, as well as the stupid split. 

[energyzone]

What did the Glenafton manager say?

[tombrown]

Why would the sosfl.merge they are already there for any team in the south with criteria to join, the teams dont need to be junior.theres already talks with some clubs in the west about a league being started there, again for any club not just junior clubs who meet criteria. the storey in the sun only highlights whats been the junior f.a.stance for the last 5 years.belittling clubs in the senior setup has always been a tool for devision.but these clubs are on the liecencing ladder some are nearly over the line. Its not overly hard to achieve tick all the boxes and your there. does it matter how good your club is on the park at this time as the senior leagues will get better with the clubs coming in.its the future that counts, thats the main reason these clubs have left the juniors.its going forward from now.

[GordonS]

3 hours ago, Nimmo's Notes said:

A few folk bemoaning the fact that entry to the pyramid system will result in going from paying 6 quid to get in, a pie for a pound, and being able to wander around the ground, to paying 20 quid to get in, £2.50 for a pie and being tied to a seat by a steward...

Which folk? I've said things involving those moving parts, but definitely not in that context.

[tombrown]

Visited most lowland league grounds this season.entry price £6.00 pie £1.00 tea coffee £1.00 most grounds you can move freely around your not restricted to your seat in the stand,you can stand at the side of the pitch as the playing area is railed off. EoS grounds are the same 

 

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

Leckie is an ocean going sized cùnt.  I wouldn't pish on him, or his paper if  either was on fire. We all understand the logic of the pyramid, but for a variety, of often emotional reasons, some are wary. Leckie won't help either side move closer.

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Leckie is an ocean going sized cùnt.  I wouldn't pish on him, or his paper if  either was on fire. We all understand the logic of the pyramid, but for a variety, of often emotional reasons, some are wary. Leckie won't help either side move closer.

It's not like you to sit on the fence, Sarge...

[drs]

32 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

It's not like you to sit on the fence, Sarge...

He's right about Leckie though!

[Auld Heid]

11 hours ago, Nimmo's Notes said:

A few folk bemoaning the fact that entry to the pyramid system will result in going from paying 6 quid to get in, a pie for a pound, and being able to wander around the ground, to paying 20 quid to get in, £2.50 for a pie and being tied to a seat by a steward. 

Well, let's say every Junior club joined the system, what's that, 100+ clubs? Add to that all the Lowland, Highland, East and South clubs. 

Out of all that lot, there is ONE place up for grabs in the super shiny Scottish League......possibly.........if you can come through 4 playoff games! Chances are, that match day experience you enjoy in the non league divisions of Scotland is going to remain much the same. 

Onwards and upwards is there for you if you really go for it but for everyone going upwards there is someone going downwards, while most will remain the same. 

Personally, I believe it's an exciting time for Scottish football. All they have to do now is sort out the Scottish League itself and create leagues of 16 throughout and do away with playing teams 4 times a season, as well as the stupid split. 

As someone who was totally against the whole concept - it took a long while to convince me otherwise.   It took asking stupid questions to get the answers to convince me - it was the best option to move forwards.

At Linlithgow we have refused to enter into meaningful conversation on what change would mean for our club.   Our crowds are dwindling, in 2013, I ran 2 buses (5 to the final) yet last season couldn't fill a 16 seater to the semi.  Lifelong supporters now regularly go elsewhere (Rangers, Hibs and Hamilton to name but a few)

Kelty was the warning to the SJFA (SFA) that changes were afoot - SILENCE.   Some at Linlithgow viewed them as no  loss, it's ok Bo'ness are still there.   We have supporters who  see the Pyramid as potentially playing Elgin away on a Tuesday evening - yet nobody has addressed such concerns. 

As a club we don't engage enough in meaningful conversation with our supporters or members.  How do you expect to change opinions if you don't communicate meaningfully with the very people you rely upon. 

With no disrespect to any club moving (Bonnyrigg apart) these clubs aren't followed by large supports or have large memberships - so in many cases the decision to move has likely been committee led.  (Camelon didn't consult their support)

 

[Burnie_man]

As someone who was totally against the whole concept - it took a long while to convince me otherwise.   It took asking stupid questions to get the answers to convince me - it was the best option to move forwards.
At Linlithgow we have refused to enter into meaningful conversation on what change would mean for our club.   Our crowds are dwindling, in 2013, I ran 2 buses (5 to the final) yet last season couldn't fill a 16 seater to the semi.  Lifelong supporters now regularly go elsewhere (Rangers, Hibs and Hamilton to name but a few)
Kelty was the warning to the SJFA (SFA) that changes were afoot - SILENCE.   Some at Linlithgow viewed them as no  loss, it's ok Bo'ness are still there.   We have supporters who  see the Pyramid as potentially playing Elgin away on a Tuesday evening - yet nobody has addressed such concerns. 
As a club we don't engage enough in meaningful conversation with our supporters or members.  How do you expect to change opinions if you don't communicate meaningfully with the very people you rely upon. 
With no disrespect to any club moving (Bonnyrigg apart) these clubs aren't followed by large supports or have large memberships - so in many cases the decision to move has likely been committee led.  (Camelon didn't consult their support)

If the committee/board of the club think it's the right way to go to safeguard the future, doesnt there come a time when the decision has to be taken regardless of wider opinion? Afterall, the committee/board are there to run the club and with it comes a responsibility.

That said, they need to communicate to begin with to try and avoid that scenario.

[Mr Illustrious]

7 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

 

If the committee/board of the club agree with me doesnt there come a time when the decision has to be taken regardless of wider opinion? Afterall, the committee/board are there to run the club and with it comes a responsibility.

That said, if they don’t their dinosaurs

 

Fixed that for you my friend.

[Burnie_man]

9 minutes ago, Mr Illustrious said:

Fixed that for you my friend.

*they're

If you're going to troll, try and be accurate.

[santheman]

3 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Leckie is an ocean going sized cùnt.  I wouldn't pish on him, or his paper if  either was on fire. We all understand the logic of the pyramid, but for a variety, of often emotional reasons, some are wary. Leckie won't help either side move closer.

He's lifted the whole column straight from this forum.

His editor probably told him to steer clear of the old firm game and this fitted the bill.

An odious cnut of the highest order.

[Mr Illustrious]

6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

*they're

If you're going to troll, try and be accurate.

*If the committee/board of the club agree with me doesnt they are come a time?* 

 

 

[GordonS]

40 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

We have supporters who  see the Pyramid as potentially playing Elgin away on a Tuesday evening - yet nobody has addressed such concerns. 

That was my worry too, which is why I'd rather join the pyramid at the same times as lots of other strong clubs. With no disrespect to any club in the LL, having never seen a LL, EoS or SoS team beat Linlithgow Rose, and only one HL team do it, it was hardly arrogance to think Rose would have had a very good chance of getting to a promotion play-off quickly, and the Juniors' record against L2 clubs suggests it would be winnable. It's not just the Juniors, Buckie Thistle's fans didn't want them to get promoted either.

I really, really don't want to be in a ten team, nationwide division with double the gate prices and with all the silly restrictions like being banned from bringing a wee bottle of juice into the ground. But a proper LL league, with the best of the non-league seniors and Juniors from East and West, that would be great.

It would be a lot more likely to happen if folk who follow clubs with average gates in double digits weren't lecturing others about "ambition" and "progress" though. 

[Burnie_man]

7 minutes ago, GordonS said:

That was my worry too, which is why I'd rather join the pyramid at the same times as lots of other strong clubs. With no disrespect to any club in the LL, having never seen a LL, EoS or SoS team beat Linlithgow Rose, and only one HL team do it, it was hardly arrogance to think Rose would have had a very good chance of getting to a promotion play-off quickly, and the Juniors' record against L2 clubs suggests it would be winnable. It's not just the Juniors, Buckie Thistle's fans didn't want them to get promoted either.

I really, really don't want to be in a ten team, nationwide division with double the gate prices and with all the silly restrictions like being banned from bringing a wee bottle of juice into the ground. But a proper LL league, with the best of the non-league seniors and Juniors from East and West, that would be great.

It would be a lot more likely to happen if folk who follow clubs with average gates in double digits weren't lecturing others about "ambition" and "progress" though. 

Just to raise this point, you want to be in a "proper LL", but presumably you'd never want to see Linlithgow win it just in case you end up in League 2?

Perhaps clubs who don't measure up to Linlithgow's lofty standards are wanting to try and better themselves beyond double digit crowds and one day with a bit of luck be able to compete at that level.  That opportunity is much harder where we are at present, and probably impossible.  So with ambition comes progress, and no more artificial glass ceiling holding that back.  That's surely a good thing.

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, Auld Heid said:

As someone who was totally against the whole concept - it took a long while to convince me otherwise.   It took asking stupid questions to get the answers to convince me - it was the best option to move forwards.

At Linlithgow we have refused to enter into meaningful conversation on what change would mean for our club.   Our crowds are dwindling, in 2013, I ran 2 buses (5 to the final) yet last season couldn't fill a 16 seater to the semi.  Lifelong supporters now regularly go elsewhere (Rangers, Hibs and Hamilton to name but a few)

Kelty was the warning to the SJFA (SFA) that changes were afoot - SILENCE.   Some at Linlithgow viewed them as no  loss, it's ok Bo'ness are still there.   We have supporters who  see the Pyramid as potentially playing Elgin away on a Tuesday evening - yet nobody has addressed such concerns. 

As a club we don't engage enough in meaningful conversation with our supporters or members.  How do you expect to change opinions if you don't communicate meaningfully with the very people you rely upon. 

With no disrespect to any club moving (Bonnyrigg apart) these clubs aren't followed by large supports or have large memberships - so in many cases the decision to move has likely been committee led.  (Camelon didn't consult their support)

 

An excellent post. The pyramid is the future, and I am sure that your crowds will increase if your club joins it. Just look at Kelty's crowds. Media interest and sponsorship/business engagement will also increase IMO.

There will be 4 or 5 vacancies in the EoS if it moves to a 2x16 league, as suggested. And the pyramid would be better if Linlithgow join it.