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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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1 minute ago, stanley said:

What is the logic behind not considering any applications in June?   

I'd assume the logic is they want to unveil a possible integration proposal in the summer. Given this, it would be prudent to pause any applications until a basis of agreement is reached, and if the licensing scheme itself may change (might see the available funding etc drop if a potential flurry of applications is coming down the line for one example).

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What is the logic behind not considering any applications in June?   


Clearly waiting for Linlithgow to have their AGM.

No show in the East without the main event being involved.

Can't wait to be part of the Super League - junior pioneers.....!!!!


Meanwhile back in the real world.

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22 minutes ago, Goalie Hamish said:

Mibbee its me but has anything really changed.  SFA refer Johnstone's letter to the Pyramid working group for consideration and discussion and in the meantime they are not going to look at licence applications at the June board meeting although not sure what that is going to achieve.

Long way to go before the Juniors get access.

The statement from the SFA interim CEO definitely bears no correlation to what was being claimed on here in recent days. The pyramid group clearly still have to resolve how integration happens so there is no suggestion of the juniors being tier 6 next season because the goal is only to resolve matters in time for 2019-20, and there is nothing in there that implies that a club moving to the EoS this summer shouldn't be able to get their licence sorted out by March 2019 in time to be in the promotion playoff, if they have been working on it for years like Bonnyrigg and Haddington have been.

Edited by LongTimeLurker
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2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The statement from the SFA interim CEO definitely bears no correlation to what was being claimed on here in recent days. The pyramid group clearly still have to resolve how integration happens so there is no suggestion of the juniors being tier 6 next season because the goal is only to resolve matters in time for 2019-20 and there is nothing in there that implies that a club moving to the EoS this summer shouldn't be able to get their licence sorted out by March 2019 in time to be in the promotion playoff.

What is does is make it clear that no agreement over summer = no SJFA in pyramid for 2019-20. Looks like a season notice which is fair. East remains the thorny problem.

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8 minutes ago, Goalie Hamish said:

What is does is make it clear that no agreement over summer = no SJFA in pyramid for 2019-20. Looks like a season notice which is fair. East remains the thorny problem.

Surely there are loads of problems. Will the juniors accept relegation from the LL into the West (or East) Superleague? Will a majority of juniors accept going in at tier 6? 

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I'm obviously reading a very different outcome here. 

I think the purpose of this short pause is to allow an optimal approach to tier 6 across the whole country. 

If the optimal approach were to include all ĺicenced clubs at tier 6 as at March 2018 then that carries a lot of merit in my view. 

Licencing may well be opened up to all clubs from June. That would mean for example that Bo'ness could complete the redevelopment of Newtown Park and secure their licence as an East Region junior team.  Or Bonnyrigg could do the same as an EoS team.  

Clubs with a licence in March 19 then make up tier 6 whether east or west or south (or north?). Clubs without a licence start at tier 7. So some of the teams in all of the current structure might end up at tier 6 whilst others who may be there now, won't be in 19/20. 

In terms of a common sense approach to an integrated, licenced tier 6 it works for me. 

Those looking for 150k toilets on their plans can give it a miss. 

Edited by HTG
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On 4/22/2018 at 15:53, Burnie_man said:

Pretty much. I'd expect that those clubs entering the EoS for next season will be able to apply for Licencing as normal. No reason why they couldn't.

So that was right, although the one month embargo on applications seems odd.

On 4/22/2018 at 15:53, Burnie_man said:

So the SFA Board have no objections to the SJFA joining the Pyramid, but that this will need to go through the Pyramid Working Group to discuss further and reach some form of agreement with all the other parties. That's where it all gets rather difficult, particularly in the east.

 

Exactly what is going to happen.

At least we now have clarity on exactly what was discussed. It doesn't change much to be honest, and it remains to be seen how the EoS approach negotiations.

 

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4 minutes ago, HTG said:

I'm obviously reading a very different outcome here. 

I think the purpose of this short pause is to allow an optimal approach to tier 6 across the whole country. 

If the optimal approach were to include all ĺicenced clubs at tier 6 as at March 2018 then that carries a lot of merit in my view. 

Licencing may well be opened up to all clubs from June. That would mean for example that Bo'ness could complete the redevelopment of Newtown Park and secure their licence as an East Region junior team.  Or Bonnyrigg could do the same as an EoS team.  

Clubs with a licence in March 19 then make up tier 6 whether east or west or south (or north?). Clubs without a licence start at tier 7. So some of the teams in all of the current structure might end up at tier 6 whilst others who may be there now, won't be in 19/20. 

In terms of a common sense approach to an integrated, licenced tier 6 it works for me. 

Those looking for 150k toilets on their plans can give it a miss. 

Bit of a leap there HTG!

That could well happen, it may not.  I don't think anyone on the SFA Board have any sort of idea of what integration looks like, and the interim CEO wont be there much longer. It smacks of policy on the hoof and it could all get bogged down in the PWG with competing interests to the fore.

This also raises the question of when is the SJFA EGM to discuss the survey results? where is TJ's mandate to enter these negotiations? nothing has been agreed by the Junior clubs at all, there's just been an indication that most would like to join the Pyramid, that's it.

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1 hour ago, Garret Deasy said:

Where has the SJFA claimed to have limited status? A serious question.

And I would agree with the member clubs 'owning' the SJFA and all its assets. So if it ends up being wound up then the assets would be distributed equally with all clubs who are members at the time. The assets just cannot be transferred to the SFA coffers. 

From the SJFA constitution: 7. Any club in membership of the Association resigning or being expelled shall have no right or interest in the property or assets of the Association. Therefore those remaining do have rights and interest in property and assets of the Association. 

1. Incumbent on the clubs to ensure there is no asset stripping going on prior to so many clubs leaving the ranks. This would include paying for fancy consultants whether employed by the SFA or otherwise etc.

2. As there is no limit to liability then all office bearers have unlimited personal liability for the actions of the organisation. Not an issue if they deliver the aims of the organisation correctly. If they don't deliver those aims, then all or any one of them can be pursued personally. If you own a house get it  transferred now to the wife's name guys. But maybe just a bit too late,  given some of the decisions already been made. :whistle 

Their website copyright notice names The Scottish Junior Football Association Ltd .

Ordinarily, I'd say it was next to inconcievable that such an organisation would not have limited liability status.

However, this is the parallel universe of Scottish football, where clubs become limited companies, go bust, have their assets sold to a brand new company and behold! the old club somehow resurrects itself and claims 54 league titles in the space of six years. Anything is possible for a determined Scottish fitba administrator.

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54 minutes ago, Born To Run said:

 

A thoroughly common sense message from Andrew McKinlay. No-where do they say the Juniors will jump in at the same level as the Eos/Sos,

Nor do they say they won't.

Edited by Khufu2
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2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

So that was right, although the one month embargo on applications seems odd.

Exactly what is going to happen.

At least we now have clarity on exactly what was discussed. It doesn't change much to be honest, and it remains to be seen how the EoS approach negotiations.

 

I am sure that David Baxter will be able to answer any questions from the 13 or so junior clubs, who  made formal EoS applications prior to 1st April 2018, which would have been submitted in accordance with its constitution and rules.  The  SFA letter refers to licensing & applications for full SFA membership, and doesn't prevent clubs from resigning from one league and joining another, which I guess is in accordance with the clubs' existing legal rights 

Changes in the STRUCTURE of the pyramid feeder leagues  themselves, seem to be deferred until 2019/20, so that the pyramid sub committee has time to consider this matter fully. This is surely sensible ?

This also allows time for the SFA's new CEO to take up his post. His appointment is welcomed.

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2 minutes ago, Robert James said:

I am sure that David Baxter will be able to answer any questions from the 13 or so junior clubs, who  made formal EoS applications prior to 1st April 2018, which would have been submitted in accordance with its constitution and rules.  The  SFA letter refers to licensing & applications for full SFA membership, and doesn't prevent clubs from resigning from one league and joining another, which I guess is in accordance with the clubs' existing legal rights 

Changes in the STRUCTURE of the pyramid feeder leagues  themselves, seem to be deferred until 2019/20, so that the pyramid sub committee has time to consider this matter fully. This is surely sensible ?

This also allows time for the SFA's new CEO to take up his post. His appointment is welcomed.

Any change to Pyramid structure would need a seasons notice I suspect so clubs know exactly what they are playing for next season.  So for full integration to happen in time for season 2019/20, full agreement must be reached with all parties by their AGM's this year I would suspect, therefore mid-June?  Any agreement reached at the PWG would need to be taken back to the respective memberships to be ratified or rejected. 

Time is very short and that's not even taking into consideration that negotiations wont be straightforward, and that's without a new CEO being dropped into the middle of it all. Interesting times.

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32 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Any change to Pyramid structure would need a seasons notice I suspect so clubs know exactly what they are playing for next season.  So for full integration to happen in time for season 2019/20, full agreement must be reached with all parties by their AGM's this year I would suspect, therefore mid-June?  Any agreement reached at the PWG would need to be taken back to the respective memberships to be ratified or rejected. 

Time is very short and that's not even taking into consideration that negotiations wont be straightforward, and that's without a new CEO being dropped into the middle of it all. Interesting times.

If anyone's looking for a worked example of a 'bugger's muddle', they won't have far to look!

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TJ in the original e-mail said :-   We are heading in the direction that will see us join the Pyramid – subject to an EGM – at a level no worse off than the EOS/SOS.

Is it reasonable to conclude that his use of the words "No worse off" (as opposed to "the same as") suggests that he thinks the Juniors could join the Pyramid at a better level than the EOS/SOS ? 

 

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Anyone know who the two requests for SFA Membership are? At first I was thinking one of them would be LTHV, but presumably they're an ongoing application and this read like two new applications. It's not really fair to put in an embargo in place, even short term, for clubs that might be waiting for official acceptance to the EoSFL.

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9 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Anyone know who the two requests for SFA Membership are? At first I was thinking one of them would be LTHV, but presumably they're an ongoing application and this read like two new applications. It's not really fair to put in an embargo in place, even short term, for clubs that might be waiting for official acceptance to the EoSFL.

Blackburn and Dalkeith a believe 

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3 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

No I made the point that if you step away from your £100,000 toilet block mentality, you’d see that clubs actually can make their grounds fit certain criteria. An off the cuff point about temporary stands (which have been used many times in Scotland, obviously no one actually expects Arbroath to make the uefa group stages) may blow your tiny little mind but then again you probably throw rocks at the sun each morning.

You've lost your temper and now can only hurl insults, effective strategy right enough! 

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