th1stleandr0se Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 7 hours ago, MEADOWXI said: Finally clubs may have to accept it will take 2 or 3 years of promotion and relegation to get where you believe you 'rightfully' belong, never going to happen though, and sadly I predict squabbling/division/recrimination and stupidity for the next few years. I think it could take a lot longer than that. In a true pyramid you don't have the straight swap of two or three teams a year. If, say, there are three leagues feeding a higher division then three down means one up. Can you imagine if Bonnyrigg, Bo'ness, Linlithgow, Camelon, Sauchie, Penicuik, Broxburn and Newtongrange are all fighting for one promotion spot and Hill of Beath, Carnoustie, Lochee, Dundonald, Broughty, Jeanfield and so on are are fighting for another, how long it would take for those who "belong" in a higher division to get there? By the time some of them got their turn the good players might have departed to the higher division leaving depleted squads. Also consider the imbalance in some of the games as the top juniors take on the existing amateurs at the lower level. Kelty have scored 7 goals or more in 13, yes, 13, games so far this season and double-figures 5 times. No, what we need is a system like in the start of the Junior Superleagues where the top few from the different feeder leagues went into the top division and so on. You can't simply tag the juniors onto the bottom of the LL/EoS system and hope that it will level out in a few seasons. It would be a disaster for the reasons above. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, gogsy said: If any of these teams are taking 4/5/6 seasons to get promoted then it might be because they dont automatically "belong " in a higher division East Region SUPER LEAGUE clubs are not fighting for any promotion places in the Juniors. There aren't any to fight for. Same situation in the West and North Regions. Compare that with the EoS battle between Kelty and LTHV, where promotion will go to the wire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lithgierose Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 43 minutes ago, th1stleandr0se said: I think it could take a lot longer than that. In a true pyramid you don't have the straight swap of two or three teams a year. If, say, there are three leagues feeding a higher division then three down means one up. Can you imagine if Bonnyrigg, Bo'ness, Linlithgow, Camelon, Sauchie, Penicuik, Broxburn and Newtongrange are all fighting for one promotion spot and Hill of Beath, Carnoustie, Lochee, Dundonald, Broughty, Jeanfield and so on are are fighting for another, how long it would take for those who "belong" in a higher division to get there? By the time some of them got their turn the good players might have departed to the higher division leaving depleted squads. Also consider the imbalance in some of the games as the top juniors take on the existing amateurs at the lower level. Kelty have scored 7 goals or more in 13, yes, 13, games so far this season and double-figures 5 times. No, what we need is a system like in the start of the Junior Superleagues where the top few from the different feeder leagues went into the top division and so on. You can't simply tag the juniors onto the bottom of the LL/EoS system and hope that it will level out in a few seasons. It would be a disaster for the reasons above. Makes you wonder why teams did not move with kelty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 If any of these teams are taking 4/5/6 seasons to get promoted then it might be because they dont automatically "belong " in a higher division But that's exactly the situation you will have next season in the EoS by allowing teams in by application not results.Or at least setting conditions around licensing. Imagine your 18/19 champion not being promoted as not yet obtained their licence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Just now, Auld Heid said: But that's exactly the situation you will have next season in the EoS by allowing teams in by application not results. Or at least setting conditions around licensing. Imagine your 18/19 champion not being promoted as not yet obtained their licence. Clubs are getting in to the EoSFL by application because its the bottom of the pyramid. The only clubs that can enter the EoSFL right now based on results are those clubs relegated from the Lowland League. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drs Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: Clubs are getting in to the EoSFL by application because its the bottom of the pyramid. The only clubs that can enter the EoSFL right now based on results are those clubs relegated from the Lowland League. Stop bringing facts into it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanburn Dave Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Stop bringing facts into it! Yes he is just being a trouble maker. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Clubs are getting in to the EoSFL by application because its the bottom of the pyramid. The only clubs that can enter the EoSFL right now based on results are those clubs relegated from the Lowland League. Ok fair point on 1st part.But the EoS set up still potentially breaks down if teams aren't meeting criteria to move up as happened last season.How many of the new applications are well placed to quickly reach required standard for licensing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 23 minutes ago, Auld Heid said: Ok fair point on 1st part. But the EoS set up still potentially breaks down if teams aren't meeting criteria to move up as happened last season. How many of the new applications are well placed to quickly reach required standard for licensing. Just scanning http://nonleaguescotland.org.uk a lot of the presumed applicants match up well with the grounds of other licenced clubs. The ability to get licenced is probably the biggest motivator in moving, more so than getting promotion to a higher league. Within a year I wouldn't be surprised if the majority are licenced and within 2 they might all be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Hamish Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 hour ago, th1stleandr0se said: Also consider the imbalance in some of the games as the top juniors take on the existing amateurs at the lower level. Kelty have scored 7 goals or more in 13, yes, 13, games so far this season and double-figures 5 times. No, what we need is a system like in the start of the Junior Superleagues where the top few from the different feeder leagues went into the top division and so on. You can't simply tag the juniors onto the bottom of the LL/EoS system and hope that it will level out in a few seasons. It would be a disaster for the reasons above. Oh you can and thats what will happen. Who said Superleague teams would end up in regional leagues which is the basis of yer point? Mair Lithgae fretting. Somebody said there is still time to apply so why not just get on and dae it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th1stleandr0se Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, Goalie Hamish said: Oh you can and thats what will happen. Who said Superleague teams would end up in regional leagues which is the basis of yer point? Mair Lithgae fretting. Somebody said there is still time to apply so why not just get on and dae it. The point I'm trying to make is that the Junior Superleague teams should be entering at LL level where they probably belong otherwise it will take far too many seasons for the top juniors to find their way to the right level. The range of junior teams probably matches the range of the teams in the LL/EoS setup and the most appropriate way of merging them is to have proportional representation, i.e. if there were enough teams in both East of Scotland groups (juniors and below SFL2 seniors) to make, say, 4 divisions (for arguments sake a "pyramid of 1, 1 and 2) then 25% of the juniors and 25% of LL/EoS teams should be in the top division, 25% of each in the next and 50% of each in the lower level. When the Superleagues were formed they didn't say the Lothian juniors were the superior league so the Fife and Tayside teams should all come in at the bottom and eventually find their level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Hamish Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 minute ago, th1stleandr0se said: The point I'm trying to make is that the Junior Superleague teams should be entering at LL level where they probably belong otherwise it will take far too many seasons for the top juniors to find their way to the right level. The range of junior teams probably matches the range of the teams in the LL/EoS setup and the most appropriate way of merging them is to have proportional representation, i.e. if there were enough teams in both East of Scotland groups (juniors and below SFL2 seniors) to make, say, 4 divisions (for arguments sake a "pyramid of 1, 1 and 2) then 25% of the juniors and 25% of LL/EoS teams should be in the top division, 25% of each in the next and 50% of each in the lower level. When the Superleagues were formed they didn't say the Lothian juniors were the superior league so the Fife and Tayside teams should all come in at the bottom and eventually find their level. Too late for that now bud that ship is years over the horizon. Its EoS or Juniors take yer pick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th1stleandr0se Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, gogsy said: Well you quoted Newtongrange for a start, im not sure how their performance over say the last 10 years would indicate they belong at Lowland league level? They wouldn't be in the top 25% so wouldn't be in the top league anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Once the Lowland League made it to a fully licenced 16 clubs it ended any hope of a Junior league/clubs being entered in to Tier 5. With a lot of clubs moving across to the EoSFL with the intention of getting a licence its inevitable that the EoS Premier will have licencing as a requirement. Which is something that a WoSFL might well have, especially if an initial preference is given to those WoS clubs that are already licenced. The Juniors as a block of clubs aren't likely to move across at tier 6 as they aren't going to force licencing on their member clubs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 50 minutes ago, Goalie Hamish said: Too late for that now bud that ship is years over the horizon. Its EoS or Juniors at tier 6 - take yer pick. Hamish old bean, I've taken the liberty of adjusting your post slightly so that it more accurately sets out the likely outcome in the east. Whether that lasts as a long term outcome, who can say. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Hamish old bean, I've taken the liberty of adjusting your post slightly so that it more accurately sets out the likely outcome in the east. Whether that lasts as a long term outcome, who can say. Is it likely? Two leagues at the same level, covering the same geographic area and feeding into the same league. Seems utterly looney. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny131 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 On 11/04/2018 at 21:01, Sergeant Wilson said: There can't be two leagues in the east, can there? Why? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, kenny131 said: Why? Simple answer - the SFA won't allow it ! Look at the English non-league pyramid, governed by the Football Association :- * 14 leagues at Step 5 * 16 leagues at Step 6 They all cover separate areas of the country. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corner Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, kenny131 said: Why? There could be, but would be a bad idea because * reduces quality on the field, why split the best sub LL east clubs across two parallel leagues? * reduces quality off the field, an all entry-licensed tier 6 is an obvious and progressive next step * unnecessarily complicates promotion by adding extra play offs for issues which would be better settled over a season * unnecessarily complicates relegation from LL, who goes where and why? Are there any reasons which make it a good idea? Edited April 13, 2018 by corner 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLad Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 There could be, but would be a bad idea because * reduces quality on the field, why split the best sub LL east clubs across two parallel leagues? * reduces quality off the field, an all entry-licensed tier 6 is an obvious and progressive next step * unnecessarily complicates promotion by adding extra play offs for issues which would be better settled over a season * unnecessarily complicates relegation from LL, who goes where and why? Are there any reasons which make it a good idea? One reason might be that the Juniors and EOS might never agree to some of the plans getting banded about. Mixing the current East super, EOS and lowland would be a messy affair, with all parties looking after their own interests. East Super and EOS becoming tier 6 for the Lowland might be not be be palatable for some who believe their team should be placed higher but you can't expect to just turn up late to the party and take control of the music 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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