Junior football, what is the future?

[cmontheloknow]

Just now, Dipple burn said:

Are you getting those big yellow suits we seen at Salsbury to take the old ones away?

Was actually going to recommend a few posters on here going by their ability to both consume and regurgitate shite at will.

[Shannon]

Had a wee swatch at the LL forum and there doesn't seem to be a mention about all the Junior defectors hopeing to join the elite.

Probably cause we wouldn't join Lowland League and would be East of Scotland forum you would have to look in!

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, calmac25 said:

AM soccer are based in Cupar, the plan when they were applying for the Lowland League had been to ground share with East Fife. Since then East Fife have laid a 3G and Kennoway Star Hearts are due to relocate their after the summer.

I can't remember the Austin Macphee/Cupar Hearts story but I think there was a disagreement over buying in to his vision so he set up his own club which are now highly regarded.

For either club I think the pavilion at Duffus park has been done up but the ground overall would require a good bit of work. The Howe of Fife rugby club next door have invested heavily in facilities but not sure how welcoming or suitable they would be for football

Helpful thank you, as I have never visited Duffus Park.

 

[Dipple burn]

1 minute ago, Shannon said:

 

Probably cause we wouldn't join Lowland League and would be East of Scotland forum you would have to look in!

 

But the goal is the LL thats what all the commotion is about and they could'nt give a toss whats going on in the scrabble below them.

[San Starko Rover]

But the goal is the LL thats what all the commotion is about and they could'nt give a toss whats going on in the scrabble below them.

Yes and next season the Lowland league might well be talking about Bonnyrigg or Camelon as the season progresses like they’re no doubt talking about LTHV and Kelty at the moment but this year which juniors are joining the EoS is no factor to them.

[HoBNob]

13 hours ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Tremendous result at Dumbarton, I like many Junior fans was delighted. But what you and others on this thread are doing is to try and devalue the premier tournament in the grade your club have been part of for over 100 years, moving on to pastures new with damming statements of faint praise. Forty years since your club won the Junior Cup,  perhaps you can't remember it, or have actually never experienced it, so how can you compare? 

You have never experienced a massive result against the odds in the Scottish Cup so how can you compare? 

What those fans were trying to do is out into context how great a day, and a result it was for there club. You just didn't appreciate it because it was a junior club not being utterly obsessed with the junior Cup. 

9 hours ago, The Moonster said:

Can you explain what's "not ideal" about having a perfect side view of the pitch like at the Rock?  

 

There's more to football than getting a perfect view, you get better views at your stadium than say Gayfield, Glebe or Station Park but I'd have them miles ahead as stadiums. 

It isn't a perfect stand due to it being a factor in what is a poor footballing experience all told. 

9 hours ago, Isabel Goudie said:

OK, I'll have a go, but I am now getting to the stage of losing the will again and I feel am trying to convince the inconvincible and, to a degree, the hostile on this thread.

 

My stance now on this is mainly a defence of Talbot's position, shared by a lot of clubs, which is concern of losing their identity. If I may will use my club as the main example, but justify by saying other clubs, and fans of, would readily endorse the sentiment.

 

In a way, has been echoed elsewhere, Talbot are in a unique position and it could be strongly argue they are the quintessential Junior club from a the most partisan Junior area. They owe much of that to the equally unique world that is Junior football,  a club from a village has realised and maintained success that most other clubs can only dream of,  and it is heartily felt that the environs of the grade and an area that has embraced that culture has as much to do with the success as hardworking committees or large crowds, although part of that is why the crowds are as good.

 

Why do I believe it is unique? Because over 40 years of watching it I have witnessed tremendous occasions with massive crowds that at times most clubs in Scotland in any grade would envy. I'm still gobsmacked that despite Talbot 13 Scottish Junior finals in 30 years, they still pack out to the gunnels the East Stand at Rugby Park, no complacency from familiarity. Even last year when they weren’t playing well and not favourites. I believe that Talbot's continuing success is because of the Junior Football heritage in East Ayrshire. I have been to a few SOS and EOSL games, but see no evidence that it would generate even a glimpse of the passion or commitment I have witnessed over the years in Ayrshire. Big Scottish ties against Bonnyrigg, Linlithgow and Bo'ness have been equally thrilling as the all Ayrshire affairs, as with Pollok and Rob Roy.

 

To compare this with the sanitised sterile atmosphere of some senior games, especially the less well supported that can be  over priced, over stewarded, void of atmosphere. Yes I know that there are great parts of the senior game and there are Junior games which are nothing like those described, but at the top end Juniors when it's good it is special. For me whatever is left of that should be harnessed and part of the new set up. Opening up the Junior Cup would be beneficial in this and for other non-league clubs I’m sure.

 

It probably won’t for some, but I hope that it does explain why Talbot and other Junior clubs have trepidation. As with most things cultural a lot of it can’t be measured in units and is difficult to assess exactly. However, I stand by it and suggest that having the biggest Junior clubs in a pyramid with a forum where they can retain and foster that identity would be good for all.  

 

I'm positive you were asked to explain what the junior identity is, and how you would lose it by being in the pyramid and you've utterly failed in honesty. There is nothing there that isn't replicated through all levels of Scottish football, you touch on it and "the unique world of junior football" what is it that's unique? 

I did have a solid chuckle at "see no evidence that it would generate even a glimpse of the passion or commitment I have witnessed over the years in Ayrshire" the fans of the juniors are moaning at potentially having to travel an extra half hour to support there team! Passion and commitment my arse. That's just an empty post totally skirting around the question which you were repeatedly asked. 

 

What is the" junior soul"and how on earth would you lose it joining the pyramid, did Kelty lose it when they left the juniors? Do Bonnyrigg, Linlithgow etc lose it when they play in the big Scottish Cup? After all that is senior football against senior teams, surely they would lose there junior soul on these occasions? 

 

 

[Black & Red Socks]

10 hours ago, GLESGABOY said:

Bingo!!.....Is Pro Pyramid Gansta the same as Wanka?? Asking for a friend................. between you and Hamish you must be getting through some amount of bed sheets with all these pyramid wet dreams that you`re having. You have now left the building so why are you persisting with your barrage of pyramidpish? I see you were catching farts on another thread about your move to Utopia and if things are so bad why the f**k do you care what happens, you`ve left. Be a good chap and let the door hit your arse on the way out..cheerio noooo...

This has got to be one of the poorest posts on this or any other thread that I've had the misfortune to read. In the face of properly constructed, rational and, indeed, factual information being laid before you and everyone else reading this thread on the reasons why a fair amount of SJFA clubs consider a coherent and sustainable future lies in the EoSFL and the Pyramid you first claim to be working on a pitch that will detail all the benefits of remaining Junior and then, when you're called out on this repeatedly by a variety of posters, you fail to come up with even one worthwhile reason and, instead, resort to infantile retorts and obscene language.

As has been said before, no wonder teams are fleeing from this bully boy style nonsense. There will be more doing so in the years ahead too, and in some small way your contributions on P&B this last wee while might just help them to make up their minds on that very course of action.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Black & Red Socks

[Toffee fan]

OK, I'll have a go, but I am now getting to the stage of losing the will again and I feel am trying to convince the inconvincible and, to a degree, the hostile on this thread.

 

My stance now on this is mainly a defence of Talbot's position, shared by a lot of clubs, which is concern of losing their identity. If I may will use my club as the main example, but justify by saying other clubs, and fans of, would readily endorse the sentiment.

 

In a way, has been echoed elsewhere, Talbot are in a unique position and it could be strongly argue they are the quintessential Junior club from a the most partisan Junior area. They owe much of that to the equally unique world that is Junior football,  a club from a village has realised and maintained success that most other clubs can only dream of,  and it is heartily felt that the environs of the grade and an area that has embraced that culture has as much to do with the success as hardworking committees or large crowds, although part of that is why the crowds are as good.

 

Why do I believe it is unique? Because over 40 years of watching it I have witnessed tremendous occasions with massive crowds that at times most clubs in Scotland in any grade would envy. I'm still gobsmacked that despite Talbot 13 Scottish Junior finals in 30 years, they still pack out to the gunnels the East Stand at Rugby Park, no complacency from familiarity. Even last year when they weren’t playing well and not favourites. I believe that Talbot's continuing success is because of the Junior Football heritage in East Ayrshire. I have been to a few SOS and EOSL games, but see no evidence that it would generate even a glimpse of the passion or commitment I have witnessed over the years in Ayrshire. Big Scottish ties against Bonnyrigg, Linlithgow and Bo'ness have been equally thrilling as the all Ayrshire affairs, as with Pollok andF Rob Roy.

 

To compare this with the sanitised sterile atmosphere of some senior games, especially the less well supported that can be  over priced, over stewarded, void of atmosphere. Yes I know that there are great parts of the senior game and there are Junior games which are nothing like those described, but at the top end Juniors when it's good it is special. For me whatever is left of that should be harnessed and part of the new set up. Opening up the Junior Cup would be beneficial in this and for other non-league clubs I’m sure.

 

It probably won’t for some, but I hope that it does explain why Talbot and other Junior clubs have trepidation. As with most things cultural a lot of it can’t be measured in units and is difficult to assess exactly. However, I stand by it and suggest that having the biggest Junior clubs in a pyramid with a forum where they can retain and foster that identity would be good for all.  

 

For someone who is losing the will - again - funny how you keep coming back again, and again, and again!

 

[.Stuart.]

So ive to give up my work to follow my team all over scotland??

If you work Saturday afternoons, I doubt you’d be able to go to games no matter how local they are anyway.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Toffee fan said:

For someone who is losing the will - again - funny how you keep coming back again, and again, and again!

 

To be fair, I was referring to another thread regarding the again bit, which I never commented on again. However, I am genuinely attempting to debate the pyramid because it looks like it will happen. It is difficult to do that when a collective of people on a Junior forum, in a thread about the future of Junior Football are actually hostile to the Juniors and, it seems, would be satisfied with the complete demise of the grade. Some have genuinly promoted the pyramid, on principle it is difficult to argue with. My issue is that we could be hurtling towards something that could be problematic for every club.  The attitude by some is so what and are not willing to listen. Some seem to be so consumed in hysteria that they won't concede that there are any issues, when there clearly are. If the Juniors join the pyramid, and it appear likely, they will be the biggest group of clubs in it, they will also have the biggest clubs, it would therefore appear that they could have a big say in the future. The arrousal by some on the prospective demise of the Juniors could indeed be premature. Interesting times, you never know it might all make for some juicy encounters in the future. 

[Marshmallo]

9 hours ago, stevie2502 said:

14 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

If there is a West of Scotland league formed at tier 6, how would this change which teams Cumnock play?

It will through time....

Same as in the Juniors with relegation and promotion then. The teams Cumnock played changed a couple of years ago when you went down, did you stop going then?

[Goalie Hamish]

Bingo!!.....Is Pro Pyramid Gansta the same as Wanka?? Asking for a friend................. between you and Hamish you must be getting through some amount of bed sheets with all these pyramid wet dreams that you`re having. You have now left the building so why are you persisting with your barrage of pyramidpish? I see you were catching farts on another thread about your move to Utopia and if things are so bad why the f**k do you care what happens, you`ve left. Be a good chap and let the door hit your arse on the way out..cheerio noooo...

Dammit missed that roaster Weegieboy he's away tae play with his pigeons again which is appropriate as that's anither pastime of his that's dying oot [emoji23]

[Fifes Elite Force]

10 hours ago, GLESGABOY said:

Bingo!!.....Is Pro Pyramid Gansta the same as Wanka?? Asking for a friend................. between you and Hamish you must be getting through some amount of bed sheets with all these pyramid wet dreams that you`re having. You have now left the building so why are you persisting with your barrage of pyramidpish? I see you were catching farts on another thread about your move to Utopia and if things are so bad why the f**k do you care what happens, you`ve left. Be a good chap and let the door hit your arse on the way out..cheerio noooo...

What even is this

[Burnie_man]

21 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

This is what you notice with died in the wool Junioristas like yourself, they think the “grade” should act as one, your loyalty to the “grade” should usurp any club loyalties. The “grade” decides what is best, we all move to keep the natural order or none of us move, the big “grade” hoose must stay open!  That’s what you and others really believe (just look at the numpty from Armadale).  You don’t like it when individual clubs decide they have had enough, and leave.  You hear if from TJ & Co, it’s tantamount to treachery and it shines through in every one of your posts. 

It’s that attitude which has killed the “grade”.

 

1 hour ago, Isabel Goudie said:

 If the Juniors join the pyramid, and it appear likely, they will be the biggest group of clubs in it, they will also have the biggest clubs, it would therefore appear that they could have a big say in the future. The arrousal by some on the prospective demise of the Juniors could indeed be premature.

Clubs will join the Pyramid, not the "grade", they will not be the biggest group as there are no groups, just clubs, no "grades".

You support a club, not a "grade" of football.  That's the tribal mentality that has got us to where we are now propagated by TJ who wants to keep his well paid job at all costs, but many still can't see it.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Burnie_man

[Burnie_man]

Musseburgh held their meeting last night re the EoS, any word as to outcome from the Mussy contributors to this page?

[Jason King]

14 hours ago, Isabel Goudie said:

You give the game away there, you actually are hostile and anything I say you will make no difference to you.  Any genuine football fan that would say they wouldn't bat an eyelid if a football club in Scotland were to shut up shop has an agenda. I certainly would never wish that on any club and it would sadden me. You make an arguement about being the same for all football fans but then state the the West Super Premier is meaningless, whilst claiming to be a Bens fan, you can't have it both ways. I get that some people don't agree with me about the Junior identity, I even concede that I am not explaining it very well given its complexities and subjectivity, but I gave it a go. However, it in some part was a waste of time, as you and all the acolytes who dive in with the green dots to support your anti Junior stance and your lack of grace towards an excellent non league club really would like to see the demise of the grade, and a widely respected club. 

Why are you on this forum? I suspect to gloat! 

I say old boy, you seem rather upset.

As has already been mentioned you clearly have not actually read what I said but carry on responding to what you think has been written. In the general hierarchy of Football of course Junior football is meaningless. Do you really think there are thousands of Aberdeen fans who care if Benburb win the title this season or hundreds of Morton fans who would bat an eyelid if Talbot shut down tomorrow? Its non-league football in Scotland, and not even the top echelons of non-league football in Scotland, of course its meaningless beyond those with an interest in it, in exactly the same way as the likes of Rochdale are meaningless to everyone outside of England etc. Its not meaningless to me as my team play in that league but I'm not stupid enough to think that outside of a dwindling number of supporters there is a passionate interest in the level of football that my team play in. There aren't people hunched over their phones around midnight on Saturday night in Malaysia desperately hitting refresh on the West Region website as they need to know how the Bens got on at Thorniewood.

If Celtic and Rangers closed down this afternoon there wouldn't be a massive number of Tottenham/PSG/Real Madrid fans caring a single iota as to them its a small club from a backwater league that they have no interest in.

And in the same way that when Stonehouse/Gretna/Clydebank/Airdrieonians folded a few years ago I wasn't crying into my Bovril as they weren't my club, if Benburb shut down at the end of the season I would obviously be clearly distressed (for all of a couple of minutes, because at the end of the day its just a sport and no one dies) by that but I wouldn't expect every other fan of Scottish football clubs to give it more than a passing glance or even know about it.

I've been to 32 games this season, that's games of football not Junior games, not senior games just games of Football. The grade is irrelevant to me, I watch my team and would support them wherever they play. That's a concept you seem to be having difficulty understanding but carry on insulting me as its the only recourse you have to your complete and utter lack of a cohesive case as to why Junior football is different.

And by the way, your acolytes and green/red dot obsession is painfully desperate posting.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Jason King

[Jason King]

1 hour ago, Isabel Goudie said:

. Some seem to be so consumed in hysteria

The only person being hysterical round here appears to be you.

[kefc]

10 hours ago, GLESGABOY said:

Look at you getting your pyramidpanties in a knot. I`m well aware of the content. The future of the Junior game (on the thread that you started.....really?)  is now out of your hands and nothing more than an interesting distraction from your impending move to Utopia. Frankly I`m surprised you`ve got so much time to spare to pour scorn all over anyone else`s opinion if they appear to waver from your party line. I thought you would be filling out application forms for all the cash that`s coming your way for being in the pyramid?? For the avoidance of any doubt I`ll post where and when I see fit and if that irritates you (and it clearly does) then so much the better. You`re actually a bigger ass-clown than I gave you credit for if you think I`m involved in "running the Junior game" I`ve no need to sell anything, lets see how it plays out and then see who has the last laugh........... Now I`m going to apply the pigeon rule to you so feel free to howl away. I won`t be listening to anymore of your over inflated , self important bullshit musings............

"see who has the last laugh" WTF is that about. If what has happened in the last 4 weeks on here, in the media, talks between clubs has set off the alarm bells at the SJFA to waken up to the fact of the pyramid and club licencing then its been worthwhile giving clubs the best chance to improve. Hopefully they can get a quick agreeement and comprimise with the current people in charge within the pyramid and current Junior football clubs can prosper.

Up until then clubs in the EOS and LL will enjoy their u20 league, Scottish Youth Cup entry, Fixture lists, Scottish Cup Entry at Round 1, SFA Licence, Irn Bru Cup, Betfred Cup, Pyramid Structure, use of floodlights to ease fixture congestion etc.

Edited April 5, 2018 by kefc

[Jason King]

1 minute ago, kefc said:

Up until then clubs in the EOS and LL will enjoy their u20 league, Scottish Youth Cup entry, Fixture lists, Scottish Cup Entry at Round 1, SFA Licence, Irn Bru Cup, Betfred Cup, Pyramid Structure, Use Of Floodlights to ease fixture congestion etc.

Hysterical ramblings of someone who wants to destroy the grade IMO

[Jacksgranda]

3 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Hysterical ramblings of someone who wants to destroy the grade IMO