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Junior football, what is the future?


Burnie_man

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15 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I think its possible it could even revert into something similar to what it once was. There's likely to be enough clubs not enamoured by the SFA Pyramid and would rather have more local leagues with a smaller number of teams. Superleague era ends and you have Ayrshire, Central, East, North and maybe a mixed Fife/Tayside as your redrawn Regional/District Leagues.

This could be a wise insight into the future.

With many small/lower division junior clubs struggling to survive, a return to local leagues would seem to be a logical outcome. These realigned leagues could remain within the scope of the SJFA, and have an option to join the (enhanced) pyramid feeder leagues at tiers 6 & 7, but only if they wished to do so.  Dual membership of the SFA and SJFA should be discontinued, with clubs given (say) 3 - 5 years to become licensed. thereby enabling them to stay (or join) at tiers 6 & 7. 

Enclosed grounds would be required for all senior clubs, and floodlights would be "a must have" at tier 5.

Of course, to make the above work, a WoS senior league at tiers 6 & 7 would be essential.

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Can’t blame Bonnyrigg for looking at the possibility of moving, while they are very proud members of the East Juniors they are left with the possibility of being left behind. To me the pyramid is inevitable (look at England) as the trickle in the East has now started with Kelty, Dalkeith, Bo’ness (stated they will be joining the EoSL) who’ll blink next is anyone’s guess.

 

Bonnyrigg could sit on their hands and refuse to leave the Juniors but there is the possibility that if they do this teams below them will jump them as Dalkeith are about to and fill the EoSL league and form extra divisions. With every team that crosses over the East Juniors will weaken and in 5 years time they could face the prospect of staying in a very weak league or joining at Tier 7 or even 8 having to battle past teams they were ahead of while looking at other teams they were ahead of who could be as high as Tier 4 or 5 if things go well.

 

I think we all know the SFA and SJFA should have sorted a proper pyramid merger but the SFA seem fairly uninterested and the SJFA just wants to stick its fingers in its ears and hope this goes away.

 

Bonnyrigg are right to look at what the future holds and where they want to be in 5 years+

 

 

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Just throwing this out there for discussion.
As expected we've seen Kelty jump ship, maybe one or two will follow in the next couple of seasons but I can’t see a trickle becoming a flood for various reasons, particularly in the West.
However, that doesn’t mean that there aren’t a significant percentage of clubs out there who would like to see a proper pyramid structure in place which wholly involves Junior clubs, and for these clubs to work towards gaining an SFA Licence and work their way up that structure, participating in the Scottish Cup.
Currently, the SJFA don’t appear willing to engage in serious discussions with the SFA, or even open a debate internally with members on this issue.
So what do Junior clubs do next? what is the long-term future of Junior football?  Do nothing and hope that we only lose a handful of clubs and carry on unchanged, or begin an honest and open discussion between member clubs about how to integrate with the pyramid.
These are serious questions that now need asked but I doubt we’ll hear much about it at the upcoming AGM, it’ll be more head in the sand stuff and no leadership.

NO future that's the answer
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6 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

It's three weeks to the EoSFL deadline for new members, it's going to be an interesting few weeks with at least 6 or 7 Junior  clubs having either applied or inquired about membership for next season.

So speculating based upon expressions of interest (past & present), the 6 or 7 new EoSL clubs could be:

Dalkeith, Clydebank, Bonnyrigg, Bo'Ness, Kilwinning, Haddington (juniors) and Cowdenbeath (if Cove Rangers win the SPFL relegation play-off).

Does anyone know of any other declarations of interest , or impending EGMs ?

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So speculating based upon expressions of interest (past & present), the 6 or 7 new EoSL clubs could be:
Dalkeith, Clydebank, Bonnyrigg, Bo'Ness, Kilwinning, Haddington (juniors) and Cowdenbeath (if Cove Rangers win the SPFL relegation play-off).
Does anyone know of any other declarations of interest , or impending EGMs ?

Not sure why the Blue Brazil would be relegated two divisions, but Hawick RA are on a bit of a shoogly peg in the LFL... If Cowden do come down then there'll be two down from LFL as well.
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Not sure if he posts on here or not but there is a post from prorege on Tony's non-league forum saying:

Quote

There's a lot going on behind the scenes across various cklubs and in the "corridors of power". 

As many as 20 East Junior clubs could be willing to quit the Association if they cannot gain licensed status any other way. Whether this leads to a "take-over" of the East of Scotland league, or leads to the SFA rescinding the "Senior" requirement for achieving a licence, remains to be seen. 

Another possible outcome is that the East Region Juniors become the feeder league for the Lowland league with the East of Scotland seniors integrated into it. 

I expect that by 2020 there will, one way or another, be effective integration of the East Juniors and Seniors. 

Clydebank may be more likely to apply to the South of Scotland, get turned down, and blow the whiole mess wide open by appealing to the SFA. The gover ing body would theh have to decide if they really want a pyramid or not. 

Furthernore, a team from not far North of the Tay will seek licensed status in the near future. We'll have to see how the mandarins sort out that one, given that the HFL is 2 clubs above pyramid capacity and there are no feeders. 

 

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Just now, gogsy said:

East Kilbride development side play in Development league west , surely  Cowdenbeath would be able to continue in East league.  

No idea but I wouldn't rule it out. Just with the likes of Stranraer, Berwick Rangers and Hibs have had reserve teams in the EoS/SoS while being SPFL sides it's possible.

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I'm guessing the club just north of Dundee would be Montrose Roselea. They've played at Links Park in the league, I wonder if that would be a permanent plan rather than doing up Broomfield, although that park wouldn't be too far off.

Will be interesting to see what the HFL do, clubs are in theory free to apply as per their constitution, I suspect a rejection will result in an appeal to the SFA that'll set the cat amongst the pigeons.

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33 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:


Not sure why the Blue Brazil would be relegated two divisions, but Hawick RA are on a bit of a shoogly peg in the LFL... If Cowden do come down then there'll be two down from LFL as well.

Hawick are 16th and likely to go down - if Cowdenbeath get relegated and replaced by a Highland League club then the 15th Lowland team, currently Dalbeattie Star, get relegated as well (to the SoSFL in this case). See:

 

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1 hour ago, gogsy said:

I know Cowdenbeath are having a poor season  but putting them down two divisions seems to be a bit unfair.:unsure: Speculation doesn't meaning anything, only one of those clubs mentioned have confirmed they are joining EOS league next season.

 

Sorry and well spotted, as I should have said, plus Vale of Leithen (not Cowden) who I am tipping to be relegated (along with Hawick RA) as the 'knock on' 2nd relegated club from the LL into the EoSL, after the Blue Brazil lose to Cove in the SPFL play-off. This also assumes that Cove will defeat the LL champions (probably Spartans or East Kilbride), in the HFL/LL playoff, which I consider to be likely. 

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10 hours ago, Robert James said:

So speculating based upon expressions of interest (past & present), the 6 or 7 new EoSL clubs could be:

Dalkeith, Clydebank, Bonnyrigg, Bo'Ness, Kilwinning, Haddington (juniors) and Cowdenbeath (if Cove Rangers win the SPFL relegation play-off).

Does anyone know of any other declarations of interest , or impending EGMs ?

Bo'ness is short for Borrowstounness and doesn't have a capital N (sorry just needed to get that out of my system as one side of my family was from there and it gets on my nerves a wee bit). I'm not in the loop in Bo'ness United terms but they weren't shy about talking about it in the Falkirk Herald last year and having a meeting with some of their supporters, so I'm skeptical they are a factor at the moment. Think they would prefer to move together with Linlithgow Rose to keep the derby that their season tends to revolve around intact and given we are hearing nothing about EGMs in Linlithgow I suspect the Rose are happy where they are for now given they are already licensed. I suspect Kilwinning Rangers are not a factor as they would be viewed as being firmly in SoS territory and with them it's the new WoS thing that they might be interested in. Don't think Cowdenbeath are a factor as they'll be able to stay in the development/reserve league if they want to, because that's how Scottish football tends to work. So if I were doing the speculating I think the two to three beyond Dalkeith, Clydebank, Bonnyrigg and Haddington (maybe anyway, don't think that's fully confirmed) could be pretty much any of the other east region clubs that could get licensed reasonably quickly and it may just be clubs inquiring about what's involved with an eye to the future rather than something imminent.  For it to fly under the radar it's more likely to be smaller clubs with smaller memberships that can easily be canvassed for an opinion like Blackburn or St Andrews United than one of the big name superleague clubs that need to do a highly visible formal EGM like Bonnyrigg and  Clydebank are doing. We'll find out what the story is soon enough.

 

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11 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

I'm guessing the club just north of Dundee would be Montrose Roselea. They've played at Links Park in the league, I wonder if that would be a permanent plan rather than doing up Broomfield, although that park wouldn't be too far off.

Will be interesting to see what the HFL do, clubs are in theory free to apply as per their constitution, I suspect a rejection will result in an appeal to the SFA that'll set the cat amongst the pigeons.

What's the club just north of Dundee bit all about? Is that for EoS entry or getting licensed? Given the boundary between the LL and HL has been adjusted to the mouth of the North Esk rather than the Tay all of the senior and junior clubs in Angus and Perthshire are now firmly in the LL catchment.

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Can I just flip this round and ask are there any Senior or Amateur club looking to move Junior Grade. Either way I think the Junior grade is becoming weaker with some of their biggest clubs moving or potentially moving to the seniors, to the benefit to the pyramid may I add. I like an earlier suggestion of the district set up and run at a tier 7 and 8 level. Could this be how the grade survives and perhaps grow into something stronger (Not so much the teams within it but the strength of survivability and financial stability) than it currently is. 

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1 hour ago, Doonhamer doon south said:

Can I just flip this round and ask are there any Senior or Amateur club looking to move Junior Grade. Either way I think the Junior grade is becoming weaker with some of their biggest clubs moving or potentially moving to the seniors, to the benefit to the pyramid may I add. I like an earlier suggestion of the district set up and run at a tier 7 and 8 level. Could this be how the grade survives and perhaps grow into something stronger (Not so much the teams within it but the strength of survivability and financial stability) than it currently is. 

A fully integrated Pyramid provides a lot more opportunity to regionalise the further down you go, particularly in the East as it stands if and when the East Juniors and EoS become one.

So for those Fife clubs who hanker after a return to the Fife League, the Pyramid probably provides a better long term opportunity for this to happen, particularly if Amateurs come on board.

The only other way is if a rump of Junior clubs continue to "hold out" and it happens out of necessity, but there's no future in that.

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On 3/11/2018 at 22:46, Cyclizine said:

I'm guessing the club just north of Dundee would be Montrose Roselea. They've played at Links Park in the league, I wonder if that would be a permanent plan rather than doing up Broomfield, although that park wouldn't be too far off.

Will be interesting to see what the HFL do, clubs are in theory free to apply as per their constitution, I suspect a rejection will result in an appeal to the SFA that'll set the cat amongst the pigeons.

I know this is hardly my place to speculate, but Broughty Athletic are quite a solid outfit... and are just north of Dundee, just!

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In an ideal world there would be a pathway from the premiership all the way down to your local amateur outfit under one SFA although I suppose the difficulty would be the different types of contracts etc - the majority of the better run amateur leagues would be very simple to join below a junior league with the most complex part being the number of teams that get promoted/relegated through playoffs.

Senior (all the leagues including a west of scotland)

Junior (the same leagues as things stand however premier leagues feed into north/east/south/west senior leagues)

Amateur (more complex although the same leagues feeding their respective junior lowest tier leagues - potentially having a new 'elite' leagues that would be promoted into the juniors which would still allow the number of leagues in amateur/the new ones being created and teams can opt out of promotion into this?)

 

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8 hours ago, Doonhamer doon south said:

Can I just flip this round and ask are there any Senior or Amateur club looking to move Junior Grade. Either way I think the Junior grade is becoming weaker with some of their biggest clubs moving or potentially moving to the seniors, to the benefit to the pyramid may I add. I like an earlier suggestion of the district set up and run at a tier 7 and 8 level. Could this be how the grade survives and perhaps grow into something stronger (Not so much the teams within it but the strength of survivability and financial stability) than it currently is. 

No idea about any Amateurs looking to move to the Juniors, but a Senior at this point seems unlikely. The momentum that saw Easthouses and Craigroyston move to the East Region looks to have been reversed in the EoSFL's favour and doesn't seem like that will change.

A EoSFL, SoSFL or HFL club are more likely to take a year out or join the local amateur set up. Which is mainly down to the geography of the leagues.

Edited by FairWeatherFan
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