Junior football, what is the future?

[edinabear]

As recent as last season I wouldn't have thought the any Junior involvement in the Pyramid would be possible but with Kelty moving and a few other clubs expressing an interest the pendulum has now swung in the other direction.

I think what we will see is a drip feeding of Juniors applying to join East of Scotland and South of Scotland leagues over the coming seasons. Once these leagues are full then there is no way the various governing bodies can continue to bury their heads in the sand.

[Jason King]

39 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said:

Isabel never mentioned Talbot once in his post so I fail to see the relevance in this part. I have seen you quote that BSC result a few times, I have never seen you mention the replay result, does that not suit your agenda.

And Isabel is right, Kelty are not seen as Junior heavyweights. Yes they are capable of putting good teams together as most junior teams are but they are artificially better at the moment due to external funding.

Denigrating a club that was  Superleague champions twice in three years seems remarkably petty. I don't think anyone would argue they are a historical heavyweight but to say they were not one of the big hitters in the entire Junior grade when they left is frankly laughable. 

They are the model that we should all be looking at, yes there is external funding but look at what they have done with that funding - all weather pitch, additional hospitality, redoing the terraces and they have plans in for a new stand. They haven't wasted the money solely on chasing the silverware, they have invested for the future - if the funding stopped tomorrow they have moved their club to a level where they can sustain themselves by generating their own substantial income.

[kefc]

30 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Denigrating a club that was  Superleague champions twice in three years seems remarkably petty. I don't think anyone would argue they are a historical heavyweight but to say they were not one of the big hitters in the entire Junior grade when they left is frankly laughable. 

They are the model that we should all be looking at, yes there is external funding but look at what they have done with that funding - all weather pitch, additional hospitality, redoing the terraces and they have plans in for a new stand. They haven't wasted the money solely on chasing the silverware, they have invested for the future - if the funding stopped tomorrow they have moved their club to a level where they can sustain themselves by generating their own substantial income.

Kelty Hearts Football Club business model explained in 1 post.

[Wile E Coyote]

23 minutes ago, Jason King said:

Denigrating a club that was  Superleague champions twice in three years seems remarkably petty. I don't think anyone would argue they are a historical heavyweight but to say they were not one of the big hitters in the entire Junior grade when they left is frankly laughable. 

They are the model that we should all be looking at, yes there is external funding but look at what they have done with that funding - all weather pitch, additional hospitality, redoing the terraces and they have plans in for a new stand. They haven't wasted the money solely on chasing the silverware, they have invested for the future - if the funding stopped tomorrow they have moved their club to a level where they can sustain themselves by generating their own substantial income.

I haven't seen Kelty's new facilities so good on them if they have improved but I think they were badly needed even if they had stayed Junior. The Junior Cup tie between Kelty and Talbot i mentioned earlier was postponed for weeks and weeks due to the park being waterlogged and was eventually move to Ballingry  as there was no sign of Kelty's ground improving.

Nobody in the West region cares about Kelty moving. I have literally never heard it mentioned at any junior game I have been at. That is one of the main problems of the LL, its big in the East but there is no benefit as it stands for West teams so it will continue to be ignored by a large percentage of the better non-league teams.

[honestly united]

2 hours ago, Isabel Goudie said:

This is the kind of endorsement from a supporter of a senior club that the SFA love, because it lets them get away with neglecting football at non league level, they need to actually organise it so as to have a semblance of sense. The current pyramid only pays lip service to progression. The East of Scotland league is of such a standard that a Junior team can join it, and no one can claim Kelty were a Junior heavyweight, and are winning every game with embarrassing ease and yet this grade officially stands above the top junior grades. As for the SOS set up also officially higher than top Junior,  widely considered a lower level than the EOS and geographically isolated, making it obsolete due to Junior clubs in the West having too much to lose to even consider joining it. Why would they? To gain entry into the LL should they win? This is a league who accepted a team created to give foreign students a game, SOS league being so poor they entered it won it and gained promotion to the LL. So a sports club for foreigners is now in a set up with a collection of upgraded boys clubs and a few well run community clubs. Why on earth would any big Junior club from the west join a league of a lower standard than the Ayrshire  district to gain entry into a LL set up which is so ad hoc  that it could have been named the Heath Robinson Lowland League?

You cant blame the SFA for the standard of the league, as its the best they can do with the current teams they have. Yes the juniors would improve the standad below LL (and the LL for that matter) which would be good for everyone. Thats the whole point, if the juniors joined en masse then there could be a discussion on a revised structure below the LL. If 10 or 15 west clubs decided they wanted to jump ship this summer, then there would be an argument for a WoS league, but if there is one then they would have to join the SoS. Although im sure an Auchinleck or any other top junior club could put up with one season in the SoS to get into the LL if Licensed.

 

[archieb]

4 hours ago, edinabear said:

I think what we will see is a drip feeding of Juniors applying to join East of Scotland and South of Scotland leagues over the coming seasons.

EoSL maybe. SoSL not a chance.

3 hours ago, honestly united said:

Although im sure an Auchinleck or any other top junior club could put up with one season in the SoS to get into the LL if Licensed.

Pretty sure Talbot have already ruled out this option. Glasgow area clubs would laugh in your face at the very suggestion.

[parsforlife]

Pretty sure Talbot have already ruled out this option. Glasgow area clubs would laugh in your face at the very suggestion.

Honestly don't see what the huge problem would be to 'doing a kelty' a bunch of clubs within 1 hour and a half that whilst won't be competitive can hardly be that much different to what is happening in the Eos for Kelty.

[Wile E Coyote]

10 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

 

Honestly don't see what the huge problem would be to 'doing a kelty' a bunch of clubs within 1 hour and a half that whilst won't be competitive can hardly be that much different to what is happening in the Eos for Kelty.

 

Because getting to the Lowland League is not attractive for West Region clubs. Its very east centric so you have increased travelling, lower crowds and overall lower standard than you are in at the minute.

I know somebody will come back about the money you make but nobody ever mentions the money you have to pay out. Does licensing not include employing a community coach. Thats at least 20k paid out there.

To me football is about more than how much money you can get at this level

Edited November 3, 2017 by Wile E Coyote

[Wile E Coyote]

1 minute ago, Bishoptonbankie said:

Thats a really well paid coach then....

Genuine question- What is the going rate for a community coach then ?.

Much lower and you are getting towards poverty wages

[archieb]

41 minutes ago, Bishoptonbankie said:

Hmm are you sure about that.....

Pretty much, yeah.

22 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Honestly don't see what the huge problem would be to 'doing a kelty' a bunch of clubs within 1 hour and a half that whilst won't be competitive can hardly be that much different to what is happening in the Eos for Kelty.

 

For example.

Significant increase in travel costs, and decrease in home gate money due to minimal number of traveling supporters.

Risk of loss of players due to reduced budget and extra travelling.

[kefc]

26 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said:

Because getting to the Lowland League is not attractive for West Region clubs. Its very east centric so you have increased travelling, lower crowds and overall lower standard than you are in at the minute.

I know somebody will come back about the money you make but nobody ever mentions the money you have to pay out. Does licensing not include employing a community coach. Thats at least 20k paid out there.

To me football is about more than how much money you can get at this level

Load of rubbish about a community coach, you don’t even need to have a youth structure.

[AlanCamelonfan]

5 hours ago, kefc said:

Kelty Hearts Football Club business model explained in 1 post.

wait until they have to replace the pitch. I believe thats what hindered stenhousemuir

[kefc]

6 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

wait until they have to replace the pitch. I believe thats what hindered stenhousemuir

Who replaces the pitch, Kelty ? 

Our Pitch is owned by Fife Council,  a replacement pitch  fund is in operation with a percentage of booking fees going towards replacing the pitch in its 8 to 12 year life span.

Why the negativity on things you know nothing about?

Edited November 3, 2017 by kefc

[archieb]

13 minutes ago, Bishoptonbankie said:

Well you're pretty wrong in your presumption, several west region clubs are actively looking.

Time will tell.

[kefc]

These 3 places available in the EOS League I’m sure will be taken up this year, teams aren’t interested or who wait to see what unfolds may find themselves 1 or 2 levels below tier 6 and even further below the Lowland League if clubs want to join en mass or if the SJFA link up with the pyramid.

You could effectively have a few of Premier division junior teams move this year to the EOS then 1/2 years down the line the Juniors and East Superleague sign up to the pyramid under the EOS League.

Everyone will find there level in time but it could take a few years to get to the Lowland League which  if it isn’t already  will be the Premier Non League division with the various benefits to grow a club on offer both financial and if successful exposure nationally in the 3 National Cup competitions

Don’t think it’s been mentioned but EOS and SOS Clubs have 3 routes into the William Hill Scottish Cup every year.

Getting Licenced or winning the EOS/SOS League  or winning the Alex Jack Cup, Licenced or not.

Edited November 6, 2017 by kefc

[NE63 exile]

wait until they have to replace the pitch. I believe thats what hindered stenhousemuir

A valid point but are the club not struggling to attract bookings with more business floating the way towards the Falkirk Stadium up the road. I see the club are frequently pushing empty slots on Twitter. I remember Ochilview being mobbed 7 nights a week when the 3G was first laid.

[drs]

9 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

wait until they have to replace the pitch. I believe thats what hindered stenhousemuir

Because they allegedly forgot to hive a % of takings into a pitch replacement fund.

[8MileBU]

wait until they have to replace the pitch. I believe thats what hindered stenhousemuir

Who replaces the pitch, Kelty ? 
Our Pitch is owned by Fife Council,  a replacement pitch  fund is in operation with a percentage of booking fees going towards replacing the pitch in its 8 to 12 year life span.
Why the negativity on things you know nothing about?

C’mon now kefc! You should know better than to entertain a Camelon fan making remarks about other clubs pitches!

[Burnie_man]

11 hours ago, Wile E Coyote said:

Does licensing not include employing a community coach. Thats at least 20k paid out there.

 

Blimey, that's right up there with £150k toilets!

[kefc]

21 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Blimey, that's right up there with £150k toilets!

Some are happy to be negative towards the pyramid, licencing etc. without doing any kind of research which in turn makes them look kind of silly. Every bit of relevant info is available online and even on this site.