Jacksgranda Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 2 hours ago, GordonS said: Oh well, that anecdote proves there wasn't systematic oppression of Catholics then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) On 21/07/2021 at 16:02, Jacksgranda said: Working class Protestants were all rich, had well-paying jobs and lived in big houses in NI from 1921-72 unlike their working class Roman Catholic neighbours and were not in any way marginalised by what is sometimes laughingly referred to as "big house Unionism" whose leaders had not become in any way estranged from street level reality. Everything was basically wonderful in Belfast in the swinging 60s under Cpt Terence O'Neill until big bad Ian Paisley got all uppity and started brainwashing the gullible urban lumpen proles and rural Presbyterian peasantry about a sectarian divide that the UUP elite had not in fact in any way exploited to create their effective one party state. It is completely mystifying why this segment of the population would not have trusted people like Brian Faulkner to look after their interests over something like Sunningdale. This has been a documentary brought to you by Peter Taylor of the BBC that will shape perceptions across the wider UK... Edited July 24, 2021 by LongTimeLurker -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 Damn these straw men are even bigger than the bonfires 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 Can't have a more nuanced and complex picture of what happened in NI from 1921-72 as that messes up the overly simplistic narrative that's been drummed into our heads. At no point will we ever consider whether direct rule from Whitehall with the mainstream British Labour party representing working class interests might have been better than what unfolded and examine why that didn't happen and why the UUP elite were allowed instead to do what they did by Westminster for so many decades until all the social tensions that had built up boiled over in 30 years of mayhem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 'Missus Bunfield, Missus Bunfield, what about civil rights for protestants Missus Bunfield ?' 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 Can't have a more nuanced and complex picture of what happened in NI from 1921-72 as that messes up the overly simplistic narrative that's been drummed into our heads. At no point will we ever consider whether direct rule from Whitehall with the mainstream British Labour party representing working class interests might have been better than what unfolded and examine why that didn't happen and why the UUP elite were allowed instead to do what they did by Westminster for so many decades until all the social tensions that had built up boiled over in 30 years of mayhem.Someone saying there was systemic oppression of Catholics can’t be countered by saying “there were poor Protestants” or “I knew a rich Catholic”. That’s really all that’s being disputed. It’s possible to have a class analysis of a situation that acknowledges the fact that the people predominantly in the lower class are of a specific race or religious persuasion and that it might be that way because a specific group(s) in power are deliberately implementing policies to do that! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 You have fundamentally misunderstood the point Jacksgranda was making. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 16 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Someone saying there was systemic oppression of Catholics can’t be countered by saying “there were poor Protestants” or “I knew a rich Catholic”. That’s really all that’s being disputed. It’s possible to have a class analysis of a situation that acknowledges the fact that the people predominantly in the lower class are of a specific race or religious persuasion and that it might be that way because a specific group(s) in power are deliberately implementing policies to do that! On 19/07/2021 at 19:06, Jacksgranda said: Not me, not defending what went on. Not worth 30 years of murder, mayhem and bombing, though, with the resulting bitterness and division. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, NotThePars said: ...It’s possible to have a class analysis of a situation that acknowledges the fact that the people predominantly in the lower class are of a specific race or religious persuasion... I agree in broad hypothetical terms but that sort of analysis really isn't applicable to NI though. For example, in Belfast the Shankill and the Falls were and are much of a muchness in terms of housing conditions and deprivation levels. Although the inhabitants of the former were favoured for certain industrial sector jobs if you went back a few decades, they were also usually about as welcome as a rattlesnake in a lucky dip in a wide range of other better paying ones for British class system based reasons. Any sensible class based analysis of the island of Ireland in the 20th century both north and south would have to acknowledge that the dominance of 17th century inspired constitutional politics helped the property owning elite defend their class interests against working class ones whether that be through the RoI's Tweedledum vs Tweedledee FF vs FG politics or through the UUP one party state at Stormont. James Connolly's Easter Rising participation was disastrous for the future prospects of socialism in other words. In both post-partition statelets there was rampant discrimination against those who were perceived to be of the wrong persuasion in sky fairy worship terms or whose face didn't fit politically or for class based reasons with emigration being the usual solution. Anyone from a working class background with a bit of get up and go usually got up and went. Things have moved on now since EEC entry in the 70s and Maggie T in the 80s but direct rule from Westminster and post-WWII British socialism would have been a better outcome than that for promoting working class interests. Edited July 24, 2021 by LongTimeLurker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speckled tangerine Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 Just past dinosaur deniers HQ. Disappointed not to see Jeff & Ed going hammer and tongs in the street TBQH. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 That's not the HQ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speckled tangerine Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said: That's not the HQ "Constituency Office" then. Still a dour little place in a dour backstreet. We enjoyed Wallace Park though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Seeing as some pretty basic trolls were ruining another thread by there constant bleating that the DUP are really "just good guys", only misunderstood, and that they in no way hold hateful, bigoted or misogynistic views, so here's a thread for them to wallow in their naivety and ignorance. Let's start shall we, and where to begin, there is a ton of absolute nonsense the DUP have spouted? How about an easy one, Sammy Wilson and his "I don’t care about Co2 emissions to be quite truthful because I don’t think it’s all that important. I still think climate change is a man made con" .. Climate denial [✓] (source) Maybe Iris Robinson equating child abuse to homosexuality: "I cannot think of anything more sickening than a child being abused. It is comparable to the act of homosexuality. I think they are all comparable. I feel totally repulsed by both." .. Homophobia [✓] (source) Edwin Poots, who was hilariously leader for all of about 10 days, chimes in with: "My view on the earth is that it's a young earth. My view is [it was created in] 4000 BC" .. Nonsense psuedo-science [✓] (source) How about Peter Robinson defending a preacher (McConnell) with "He doesn't have an ounce of hatred in his bones" who claimed "Islam is heathen, Islam is Satanic. Islam is a doctrine spawned in hell." .. Religious zealotry [✓] (source) If I can be bothered, I'll rip apart their policies and corruption, but this should be a good starting point where almost all of us can accept that the DUP are absolutely disgusting individuals, driven by hate and religious indoctrination. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 They are absolute cretins. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Jesus. H. Chroist. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Richey Edwards said: They are absolute cretins. Indeed they are, only the politically motivated or religiously indoctrinated would argue. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 lol who said they were good guys? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Don’t disagree with any of that. However I must point out that the SNP, of which I’m a member, has a young earther MSP and has homophobes who also hold elected office. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Remember when certain posters were castigating the SNP for not propping up the government in Westminster in exchange for a quick bung of public money? I realise that's not really the point here, I just like bringing it up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, NotThePars said: lol who said they were good guys? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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