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I would say I’m not convinced by him at this point, obviously sacking him now won’t happen and I wouldn’t be for that but if we lose both derbys I can’t see him recovering and rightly or wrongly the writing will be on the wall from there.

Could be argued that if we’d been knocked out the cup he’d have a bit more leeway.

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25 minutes ago, Les Cabbage said:

First of all we finished 7th, another fact you’ve managed to get wrong.

And secondly, give me early cup defeats over getting hopes up and embarrassing ourselves at Hampden against Hearts and St Johnstone any day.

Both are as dull as dishwater the only difference being one had the one of the best players in the country, the other didn’t.

I don't think the club nor support would agree with you there.   What a ludicrous comment.  "Aye lets get emptied in the first round in case we lose the final".

Maloney took the job and the board gave Maloney the job both knowing fine will we would be without Boyle.  It was hardly a surprise and it's a shite as anything excuse.  

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2 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said:

I don't think the club nor support would agree with you there.   What a ludicrous comment.  "Aye lets get emptied in the first round in case we lose the final".

Maloney took the job and the board gave Maloney the job both knowing fine will we would be without Boyle.  It was hardly a surprise and it's a shite as anything excuse.  

Aye because defeats like the 2012 cup final, the final last year and the two semi final defeats to Hearts would be a lot worse if we’d lost 2-1 to Kilmarnock in an early round right enough.

I have absolutely no idea what you’re getting at with your second point, it’s been well documented we weren’t expecting to lose him for one and for two even if it wasn’t what difference would that make to the point in question, the point was that our drop off in form was due to Boyle leaving, how would us knowing or not knowing about it change anything?

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32 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

I'm genuinely past the point of caring about the individual, but for what it's worth:

I think Jack Ross was a good manager who fulfilled his brief (and more) of what should be expected of a Hibs manager. I don't like the way he wasn't given the chance to see that through with a final against Celtic on the horizon. I think that Ron Gordon is a reactionary who caved because a pocket of supporters sang "Jack Ross, get tae f**k".

Shaun Maloney has been Hibs manager for 92 days. It is his first job as a professional football club's first-team manager. It would be utterly ridiculous to expect him to be the finished package, and he clearly needs to be given some more time to embed his players and philosophy before making any rash decisions.

Otherwise, and going back to my point about structure, what's to say that the next appointment won't be "sussed out" for not having a clue either? There is no stability in this plan of 'sensibly' sacking Maloney right now.

We should have only sacked Jack Ross for someone who was a better alternative.  He was Dempsters guy though and the club wanted rid.

Maloney hasn't shown absolutely anything to suggest he will be even a decent manager.  There wasn't time for giving a rookie time when we sacked Jack before a major final and there's no time to go through another transition period when there is literally no positives. 

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7 minutes ago, Les Cabbage said:

Aye because defeats like the 2012 cup final, the final last year and the two semi final defeats to Hearts would be a lot worse if we’d lost 2-1 to Kilmarnock in an early round right enough.

I have absolutely no idea what you’re getting at with your second point, it’s been well documented we weren’t expecting to lose him for one and for two even if it wasn’t what difference would that make to the point in question, the point was that our drop off in form was due to Boyle leaving, how would us knowing or not knowing about it change anything?

It was only worse because it was Hearts.  And 2006 and 2012 where complete pumpings.  We lost narrowly in the last Semi and should have won.  

Everyone and their dog knew boy was leaving.  The Saudi bids came in and interest before the window even opened.    We knew it.   We should have hired a manager to put up with this loss of him.  But instead it's just a massive excuse for being pish.  Was there the same sympathy for sacking Yogi who lost Stokes on deadline day to Celtic when he was sacked?  

It would have been completely unprofessional if anyone interviewing (and remember he didn't even apply for the job) Maloney didn't ask him how he would cope with a player that in the background had a £2m bid for.   You think Maloney came in decided to build his side around the lad then lost him at the last minute?  Not a chance.  It's been in the pipeline for months.  Unless you think the Saudis just thought about signing Boyle in January having never considered it or been in touch to the player through his agent.   We are also soft as shite in midfield.  What does the manager do?  Tell Gogic and Hallberg to toddle off and play people unable to cope being ran over in the middle of the pitch.  Is that losing Boyles fault also?

Play to the squad and the players available's strength.  That doesn't happen.  It's a stubborn system that is brutal because we haven't the players. 

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Just now, Hoose Rice said:

It was only worse because it was Hearts.  And 2006 and 2012 where complete pumpings.  We lost narrowly in the last Semi and should have won.  

Everyone and their dog knew boy was leaving.  The Saudi bids came in and interest before the window even opened.    We knew it.   We should have hired a manager to put up with this loss of him.  But instead it's just a massive excuse for being pish.  Was there the same sympathy for sacking Yogi who lost Stokes on deadline day to Celtic when he was sacked?  

It would have been completely unprofessional if anyone interviewing (and remember he didn't even apply for the job) Maloney didn't ask him how he would cope with a player that in the background had a £2m bid for.   You think Maloney came in decided to build his side around the lad then lost him at the last minute?  Not a chance.  It's been in the pipeline for months.  Unless you think the Saudis just thought about signing Boyle in January having never considered it or been in touch to the player through his agent.   We are also soft as shite in midfield.  What does the manager do?  Tell Gogic and Hallberg to toddle off and play people unable to cope being ran over in the middle of the pitch.  Is that losing Boyles fault also?

Play to the squad and the players available's strength.  That doesn't happen.  It's a stubborn system that is brutal because we haven't the players. 

Mate you’re completely missing the point I’m gonna give this conversation up because it’s like speaking to a brick wall.

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6 minutes ago, Les Cabbage said:

Mate you’re completely missing the point I’m gonna give this conversation up because it’s like speaking to a brick wall.

 

No problem mate. It's all good. 

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1 hour ago, Hoose Rice said:

 

Sacking Jack Ross was ludicrous.  

Sacking Maloney would be sensible.  He's not got a clue.   Talks a good game, so did Cathro and Glass. 

Cathro talked like he'd learnt English by absorbing it in a cave without ever meeting a native speaker.  His woeful communication was one of his biggest problems

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16 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

Cathro talked like he'd learnt English by absorbing it in a cave without ever meeting a native speaker.  His woeful communication was one of his biggest problems

Fair point.  His puppet master talked a good game for him then. 

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I'm just tired of sacking c***s tbh. Out of the rumoured list of candidates last time Alex Neil was the only one who got me excited and he ruled himself out pronto. I don't think the list of candidates will have improved vastly or at all during that period.

Regardless of whether or not Maloney is doing well I'd be on the verge of giving up if he gets sacked. Under Jack Ross in the early part of this season we were playing some great stuff until Magennis got injured, talk of the football being eye-bleeding was vindicated at times but broadly I thought it was harsh. The club have got rid of him for Maloney, they should have the courage of their convictions to see it out until the end of next season at the bare minimum.

I've not been convinced of much we've done since the restart after the winter break but the constant cycle of hiring and firing was well described by Hibs Fan and we should be giving managers a chance to succeed in the medium term at the very least before we cut them loose.

My main reservation about Maloney, other than the results, is his complete lack of charisma. I just don't see how he captures the imagination of the players and drives them on to do better. 

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I sympathise with both sides of this argument, to be honest. What I find bizarre is the idea that it would be better getting knocked out of cups earlier rather than later. I reckon anyone with that mentality needs to be asking themselves why they watch football in the first place. 

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My reservation about Maloney is for the same reasons that the experiments at Tynecastle and Pittodrie with Cathro and Glass went tits up.

For a club the size of Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen you do not employ a rookie IMHO. Being the cones and bibs guy or the laptop analyst for a club or international side does not give the ability or the experience to take on a club of that size. Aberdeen made the painful decision to empty Glass (it had to happen) and went for Jim Goodwin who had served his time in the lower leagues and taken St Mirren as far as he could in the Premiership. That is why that appointment will work.

Hiring a rookie is an attractive option for Directors as firstly the rookie will shut up and do as he's told and they are also easy to sack and dump all the blame on when it all goes wrong.

Edited by AndyM
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24 minutes ago, AndyM said:

My reservation about Maloney is for the same reasons that the experiments at Tynecastle and Pittodrie with Cathro and Glass went tits up.

For a club the size of Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen you do not employ a rookie IMHO. Being the cones and bibs guy or the laptop analyst for a club or international side does not give the ability or the experience to take on a club of that size. Aberdeen made the painful decision to empty Glass (it had to happen) and went for Jim Goodwin who had served his time in the lower leagues and taken St Mirren as far as he could in the Premiership. That is why that appointment will work.

Hiring a rookie is an attractive option for Directors as firstly the rookie will shut up and do as he's told and they are also easy to sack and dump all the blame on when it all goes wrong.

Stubbs did not too bad for you guys as a rookie tbf

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3 hours ago, The Other Foot said:

I sympathise with both sides of this argument, to be honest. What I find bizarre is the idea that it would be better getting knocked out of cups earlier rather than later. I reckon anyone with that mentality needs to be asking themselves why they watch football in the first place. 

I agree with it in a retrospective sense.

For example, were I a Hibby, I'd absolutely rather have been knocked out the cup in the 4th round in 2012 than lost the final 5-1 to Hearts. But at the time of a cup run it's silly to seek to shy away from these things.

I'm really excited about the semi-final, but if we lose it, I'll probably rather we'd lost the shoot-out to Livi.

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26 minutes ago, AndyM said:

My reservation about Maloney is for the same reasons that the experiments at Tynecastle and Pittodrie with Cathro and Glass went tits up.

For a club the size of Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen you do not employ a rookie IMHO. Being the cones and bibs guy or the laptop analyst for a club or international side does not give the ability or the experience to take on a club of that size. Aberdeen made the painful decision to empty Glass (it had to happen) and went for Jim Goodwin who had served his time in the lower leagues and taken St Mirren as far as he could in the Premiership. That is why that appointment will work.

Hiring a rookie is an attractive option for Directors as firstly the rookie will shut up and do as he's told and they are also easy to sack and dump all the blame on when it all goes wrong.

Where does that philosophy end though? What club is the right size to employ a rookie? If every club felt the same then there'd never be a fresh face.

Gerrard was a rookie and won Rangers their much-craved title.

I think that rookies are exactly who Hibs should be going after if there is no clear option (Alex Neil, for example, not being interested).

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3 hours ago, The Other Foot said:

I sympathise with both sides of this argument, to be honest. What I find bizarre is the idea that it would be better getting knocked out of cups earlier rather than later. I reckon anyone with that mentality needs to be asking themselves why they watch football in the first place. 

Obviously in hindsight there's a case that you can make for it as @VincentGuerin points out, if you had told me before the Motherwell game that we would draw Hearts in the semi final and lose 5-0, I would probably have said "can we just lose narrowly to Motherwell instead please?".

However, you can only win these trophies by going far in the tournament and, yes, risking 'losing big games' (which is apparently some sort of unforgivable sin for Hibs fans. :lol:)

Anyway, I'm just chuckling at the thought of Jack Ross, talking to the BBC after a 2-0 defeat to Stranraer in the fifth round of the Covid Cup last season and saying "eh, no, see what I'm doing is avoiding a dismal cup final defeat to St Johnstone in May. It's 4D chess, really. You might not see it now but you'll thank me later, honest. 896425534_WisecrackRoss.png.c2c2f9a49461281d5d207935ecf22f38.png"

That would've gone down well.

Edited by HibsFan
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6 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I agree with it in a retrospective sense.

For example, were I a Hibby, I'd absolutely rather have been knocked out the cup in the 4th round in 2012 than lost the final 5-1 to Hearts. But at the time of a cup run it's silly to seek to shy away from these things.

I'm really excited about the semi-final, but if we lose it, I'll probably rather we'd lost the shoot-out to Livi.

This is pretty much what I mean, obviously I didn’t go into the Motherwell wanting us to lose, but after the draw came out and with the absolute fear I have going into the semi final I am kind of wishing we’d just got papped out.

Having said that if we do somehow fluke a win then obviously my tune will change.

If anyone here reckons they’d be happier losing 5-1 to Hearts in a final than 2-1 to Aberdeen in a semi final or 1-0 to St Johnstone in a final instead of on penalty’s to Motherwell in a quarter final I think they’re absolutely off their rocker and that’s the point I was making.

Really not sure how anyone doesn’t understand that tbqh.

 

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4 minutes ago, Les Cabbage said:

This is pretty much what I mean, obviously I didn’t go into the Motherwell wanting us to lose, but after the draw came out and with the absolute fear I have going into the semi final I am kind of wishing we’d just got papped out.

Having said that if we do somehow fluke a win then obviously my tune will change.

If anyone here reckons they’d be happier losing 5-1 to Hearts in a final than 2-1 to Aberdeen in a semi final or 1-0 to St Johnstone in a final instead of on penalty’s to Motherwell in a quarter final I think they’re absolutely off their rocker and that’s the point I was making.

Really not sure how anyone doesn’t understand that tbqh.

 

The fear is obviously all part of the fun. The sun will come up the next day regardless.

When Hibs got their penalty in extra-time of the last semi, for the first time I wished we weren't playing them. Obviously, what followed was a remarkable emotional turnaround.

It's maybe different depending on your perception of the strength of the sides, but I've never really looked at any of our games at Hampden and thought we won't win. Even the last one. The fear is there, of course, but I've never actually looked at the teams etc and thought we were in trouble. Even last time, I thought Hibs' perceived superiority was vastly over-stated and that Hearts would probably win.

From a Hearts point of view, this is probably a good year to have this fixture. We should win it. But the margins will be relatively small and the fear will grow as it gets closer. Might as well enjoy it.

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Very much from the outside looking in but there definitely seems to be parallels between glass and maloney. Maloney cv at least earns him a shot. 

I can see him going the same way as glass but he’s here now so he needs given a summer window and pre season imo. 

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