The Hibernian Thread

[tamthebam]

"I wouldn't be that fussed about Ross leaving.. "

Hmm..

"I'm not that fussed about Lennon leaving"

Enter Heckingbottom...

"Bye Bye Pat Fenlon"

Enter Butcher...

"Cheerio Yogi"

Enter Calderwood...

"Cheerio Miller ya boring fud"

Enter Jim Duffy...

Point being if Ross went can you trust Ron and the board to make a better appointment. If so, fair enough.

[tree house tam]

Surely you boys could have a conveyor belt of home grown managers?

Part of the reason we have been pretty successful lately is because we basically know who our next manager will be. I think the only one outwith that is Lomas who impressed in an interview. Jack Ross isn't a good manager, you could do a fair bit better with some forward planning.

Edited May 24, 2021 by tree house tam

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

8 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Just a small observation on that. When St Johnstone played Aberdeen this season, in 4 games they ranged from absolutely one-dimensional, to uninspired, to turgid, to boring, to absolute pish. We won 3 games against them and drew the other 0-0. 

Just because they absolutely have Hibs number, doesn't mean they're a great side. They're not.  What they are this season is a good cup side. That happens from time to time, and St Johnstone have been magnificent in both cups,  but I would still insist that league consistency is a better mark of a team's ability.

Hibs are a better team than St Johnstone. They just can't play against them. 

As a further small observation, opposition fans were slated by Hibees when the called Boyle a cheat. 'Trial by Sportscene' was the cry. 

I think that yesterday conclusively proved that indeed, Boyle is a fucking cheat. Case closed. 

 

Fair play to you I've no idea how you've managed to come out of a weekend where Hibs lose a cup final and still look like the most seething person on the forum but somehow you've done it! 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

1 hour ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Fair play to you I've no idea how you've managed to come out of a weekend where Hibs lose a cup final and still look like the most seething person on the forum but somehow you've done it! 

Lol. I'm happy and relaxed that you guys once again embarrassed yourselves. 

Still, if you need someone to lash out at in your anger and frustration, I'm happy to be there for you...

 

[Leith Green]

9 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Just because they absolutely have Hibs number, doesn't mean they're a great side. They're not.  What they are this season is a good cup side. That happens from time to time, and St Johnstone have been magnificent in both cups,  but I would still insist that league consistency is a better mark of a team's ability.

Hibs are a better team than St Johnstone. They just can't play against them. 

Thing is, this kinda gets to the heart of what some fans deem to be "success" - and I know we had these debates between Hibs and Dons fans when McInnes was about to leave.

People may ask what we (Hibs) deem a good season - if coming third, qualifying for Europe  and decent cup runs would be deemed a success?

Some say "yes", and if it came around next season would be ahead of our budget (which will be 4th or 5th next season).

To me, thats an accountants answer.

As a fan? Winning stuff is all that really counts - St Johnstone have finished 5th, got European football and won two cups.

You say they are not a great side based on the fact they dont play sparkling football - for me, great sides find a way to win - and St Johnstone did that, and deserve every accolade they and Davidson are getting. 

Thats what I call success - you dont get to put 3rd place in the trophy cabinet.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

5 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Lol. I'm happy and relaxed 

Bob, everyone knows this is not true mate.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

1 minute ago, Leith Green said:

Thing is, this kinda gets to the heart of what some fans deem to be "success" - and I know we had these debates between Hibs and Dons fans when McInnes was about to leave.

People may ask what we (Hibs) deem a good season - if coming third, qualifying for Europe  and decent cup runs would be deemed a success?

Some say "yes", and if it came around next season would be ahead of our budget (which will be 4th or 5th next season).

To me, thats an accountants answer.

As a fan? Winning stuff is all that really counts - St Johnstone have finished 5th, got European football and won two cups.

You say they are not a great side based on the fact they dont play sparkling football - for me, great sides find a way to win - and St Johnstone did that, and deserve every accolade they and Davidson are getting. 

Thats what I call success - you dont get to put 3rd place in the trophy cabinet.

Also just ignoring relative budget for some reason. Doing so little with the opportunity that Rangers, Hearts and Hibs simultaneously combusting gave them has broken Dons for some reason, insisting that performing pretty much to budget in the league is more impressive than winning cups is so funny to me but there we go. 

[Leith Green]

Just now, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Also just ignoring relative budget for some reason. Doing so little with the opportunity that Rangers, Hearts and Hibs simultaneously combusting gave them has broken Dons for some reason, insisting that performing pretty much to budget in the league is more impressive than winning cups is so funny to me but there we go. 

Your not wrong about some of them on here - but there are also Hibs fans using that in some way to absolve that performance "aye but the season was still successful" type of shite.

I dont agree - as I said above, St J deserve every accolade going, I dont see what we did as anything other than broadly as expected.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Reminds me of this.

 

[Valentino Bolognese]

11 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

Thats what I call success - you dont get to put 3rd place in the trophy cabinet.

We all know that 3rd is all that can realistically be achieved though, it's our farce of a league. 

On the radio the other day (think it was Pat Nevin) was saying that's why the Scottish cups are so much more important domestically than the FA or league cups are in England, to the top premiership sides at least. Realistically half a dozen teams can win it and they get, what is it, 4 CL places and top 6 gets Europe in some form I think? They money for even the FA cup is buttons when you've aiming for last 4 CL. 

FWIW I agree that with their resources I'd be thinking Hibs would expect a top 4 finish and at least semis in both cups this year. In some ways that's as much to do with a weakened top flight this year though. Next year might be tougher, depending on what folk's finances are like post-covid.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

2 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

We all know that 3rd is all that can realistically be achieved though, it's our farce of a league. 

On the radio the other day (think it was Pat Nevin) was saying that's why the Scottish cups are so much more important domestically than the FA or league cups are in England, to the top premiership sides at least. Realistically half a dozen teams can win it and they get, what is it, 4 CL places and top 6 gets Europe in some form I think? They money for even the FA cup is buttons when you've aiming for last 4 CL. 

FWIW I agree that with their resources I'd be thinking Hibs would expect a top 4 finish and at least semis in both cups this year. In some ways that's as much to do with a weakened top flight this year though. Next year might be tougher, depending on what folk's finances are like post-covid.

I know that the boards of the likes of Leicester, Spurs etc would rather have top 4 than the FA Cup, but do the fans ?

How many Leicester fans would swap their FA Cup win for a season of Champions League games ?

[Valentino Bolognese]

1 minute ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

I know that the boards of the likes of Leicester, Spurs etc would rather have top 4 than the FA Cup, but do the fans ?

How many Leicester fans would swap their FA Cup win for a season of Champions League games ?

That's a false dichotomy though, it's not either/or.

If you're not consistently getting to where the money is (CL in the EPL's case) you're not going to be competing for domestic cups, or at the very least you're significantly hurting your chances of ever getting there. 

 

 

[Widge]

33 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

Thing is, this kinda gets to the heart of what some fans deem to be "success" - and I know we had these debates between Hibs and Dons fans when McInnes was about to leave.

People may ask what we (Hibs) deem a good season - if coming third, qualifying for Europe  and decent cup runs would be deemed a success?

Some say "yes", and if it came around next season would be ahead of our budget (which will be 4th or 5th next season).

To me, thats an accountants answer.

As a fan? Winning stuff is all that really counts - St Johnstone have finished 5th, got European football and won two cups.

You say they are not a great side based on the fact they dont play sparkling football - for me, great sides find a way to win - and St Johnstone did that, and deserve every accolade they and Davidson are getting. 

Thats what I call success - you dont get to put 3rd place in the trophy cabinet.

Objectively, I think this is a very, very good answer.

Success is never going to be the same in everybody's eyes. Whether that's finishing third, fourth or qualifying for Europe, the only real measure of success is what you actually win at the end of the day. You can look on a season and say it's been successful, but that doesn't actually constitute success on a tangible scale.

Hibs have had a good season. Third in the league is the best you were ever likely to achieve this season (and many more), 2 cup semi finals and a final as well shows that Jack Ross and Hibs are a good team. Does Ross have his flaws, yeah he does which is exactly why he isn't still at Sunderland. As for saints, I've it's no surprise an Aberdeen fan thinks we're crap, they've done to us this season what we've done to Hibs. So the only time Aberdeen fans will see us play is when we're generally being made to play our worst. 

I've got to say, all the Hibs fans I've talked to in the last few days has been nothing but congratulatory and full of praise and it's been great to see. In terms of Hibs next steps, I think I'd be selling Porteous and getting a younger version of Darren McGregor in. Doig is a terrific talent, but if the money being quoted appears you'd be mad not to take it, it's not like his stats make him irreplaceable and it's always nice to see young Scottish talent move for big money. I think as a team Ross needs to find a way to get more from the midfield, that's where games against us are being lost, for all fans can moan at Porteous for making mistakes if he had a midfield willing to take the ball of him and create something 9/10 there wouldn't be an issue. Saints and other teams know that your midfield can have the ball and not look like scoring if you simply cut off the supply to the front men. Hibs fans will know the team so much better than I do, but I think from an outsiders point of view, Jack Ross needs to find a couple of attacking midfielders who'll go and create. I dunno if that was Scott Allan and Stevie Mallan before they were shipped out, but these are the types of guys I look at and worry will find space in a tight game. 

[Valentino Bolognese]

5 minutes ago, Widge said:

Objectively, I think this is a very, very good answer.

Success is never going to be the same in everybody's eyes. Whether that's finishing third, fourth or qualifying for Europe, the only real measure of success is what you actually win at the end of the day. You can look on a season and say it's been successful, but that doesn't actually constitute success on a tangible scale.

Hibs have had a good season. Third in the league is the best you were ever likely to achieve this season (and many more), 2 cup semi finals and a final as well shows that Jack Ross and Hibs are a good team. Does Ross have his flaws, yeah he does which is exactly why he isn't still at Sunderland. As for saints, I've it's no surprise an Aberdeen fan thinks we're crap, they've done to us this season what we've done to Hibs. So the only time Aberdeen fans will see us play is when we're generally being made to play our worst. 

I've got to say, all the Hibs fans I've talked to in the last few days has been nothing but congratulatory and full of praise and it's been great to see. In terms of Hibs next steps, I think I'd be selling Porteous and getting a younger version of Darren McGregor in. Doig is a terrific talent, but if the money being quoted appears you'd be mad not to take it, it's not like his stats make him irreplaceable and it's always nice to see young Scottish talent move for big money. I think as a team Ross needs to find a way to get more from the midfield, that's where games against us are being lost, for all fans can moan at Porteous for making mistakes if he had a midfield willing to take the ball of him and create something 9/10 there wouldn't be an issue. Saints and other teams know that your midfield can have the ball and not look like scoring if you simply cut off the supply to the front men. Hibs fans will know the team so much better than I do, but I think from an outsiders point of view, Jack Ross needs to find a couple of attacking midfielders who'll go and create. I dunno if that was Scott Allan and Stevie Mallan before they were shipped out, but these are the types of guys I look at and worry will find space in a tight game. 

From what I understood from Hibs fans, Allan/Mallan were the embodiment of the powder puff soft centre that was blamed for a lot of their poor performances over the last few years, they were too easy to play through. Hence Gogic.

Agree to an extent about Porteous, but I think you're too kind. The guy's the definition of bombscare, only ever 3 seconds away from a wild decision, misplaced pass or reckless challenge. Looks like the type of player that's believed his own hype and TBH if there's any money on the table for him Hibs need to empty him asap, his value drops every minute he plays. 

[PauloPerth]

10 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Just a small observation on that. When St Johnstone played Aberdeen this season, in 4 games they ranged from absolutely one-dimensional, to uninspired, to turgid, to boring, to absolute pish. We won 3 games against them and drew the other 0-0. 

Just because they absolutely have Hibs number, doesn't mean they're a great side. They're not.  What they are this season is a good cup side. That happens from time to time, and St Johnstone have been magnificent in both cups,  but I would still insist that league consistency is a better mark of a team's ability.

Hibs are a better team than St Johnstone. They just can't play against them. 

As a further small observation, opposition fans were slated by Hibees when the called Boyle a cheat. 'Trial by Sportscene' was the cry. 

I think that yesterday conclusively proved that indeed, Boyle is a fucking cheat. Case closed. 

 

Agree Aberdeen had Saints' number this season, we've struggled to break you down but not sure I agree with the rest.

The season runs August-May and Hibs deserve to be called the third best team in the country because of where they finished.  But Saints were second bottom at the turn of the year after a woeful first half of the season.  Since then only the OF clubs and Aberdeen have beaten us.  

I don't accept Hibs are a better team. Better individually in a few positions yes, but I genuinely feel this St Johnstone side is the third best in the country right now, and has been since March.  

Classing this St Johnstone team as just being a good Cup side is well wide of the truth.  We won't keep all this team together over the summer sadly, but if we did, we'd be in with a great shout of 3rd next season.

[RandomGuy.]

It's worth remembering be rested a lot of players in our last match v Aberdeen to focus on the cup, and they also benefitted from the horrendous penalty decision at Pittodrie.

[Guest TheJTS98]

1 hour ago, Leith Green said:

Thing is, this kinda gets to the heart of what some fans deem to be "success" - and I know we had these debates between Hibs and Dons fans when McInnes was about to leave.

People may ask what we (Hibs) deem a good season - if coming third, qualifying for Europe  and decent cup runs would be deemed a success?

Some say "yes", and if it came around next season would be ahead of our budget (which will be 4th or 5th next season).

To me, thats an accountants answer.

As a fan? Winning stuff is all that really counts - St Johnstone have finished 5th, got European football and won two cups.

You say they are not a great side based on the fact they dont play sparkling football - for me, great sides find a way to win - and St Johnstone did that, and deserve every accolade they and Davidson are getting. 

Thats what I call success - you dont get to put 3rd place in the trophy cabinet.

I agree with this. Obviously it's the same conversation as Hearts fans often have.

I'm in my mid-30s and Hearts have finished top 3 in the league 12 times in my lifetime. Four of those top 2. It's nice, and a sign of a good season, but ultimately it doesn't really matter.

For example, we absolutely strolled to third place (by 15 points) in 2003-04, yet it's a season absolutely nobody ever reminisces about. 2004-05 was far more enjoyable and exciting. We got to the UEFA Cup groups and made two cup semis. Even though we finished 5th in the league it was miles more enjoyable. I'd  take 04-05 over 03-04 any day.

This new Conference tournament might change Scottish clubs' modern relationship with Europe. But for the last few years, unlike our 04-05 run, or Aberdeen 07-08, it's hardly been a thrilling thing to support a non-OF side in Europe. A couple of rounds at most then out before the groups. All that effort to finish 3rd for that?

It's all about cups for our clubs. One thing Hibs have nailed in the last few years is being a good cup team. Of course, part of that is that they've had some kind draws, but Hearts' Brora experience is a reminder that you still need to win those games. Hibs have been in plenty of finals and semi-finals in the last decade, and that's miles better as a part of your life than seeing your team finish 3rd.

All about cups.

Edited May 24, 2021 by TheJTS98

[D Angelo Barksdale]

31 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

That's a false dichotomy though, it's not either/or.

If you're not consistently getting to where the money is (CL in the EPL's case) you're not going to be competing for domestic cups, or at the very least you're significantly hurting your chances of ever getting there. 

 

 

It's a hypothetical. We know what the club's board would want, what would the fans pick top 4 or a cup ?

[Valentino Bolognese]

Just now, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

It's a hypothetical. We know what the club's board would want, what would the fans pick top 4 or a cup ?

I just don't agree with the question, one leads to the other, success builds success. 

In a one-off season silverware obviously (you don't have to tell me). But there's never a situation where that choice is at the expense of underperforming in the league.

[PauloPerth]

Cups for me all the way.  If we had a genuine chance of winning the league then fair enough, but the financial doping makes that near impossible.

In 2014 we had an entertaining but up and down league season, dishing out and receiving a few pumpings along the way. We just sneaked into the top six and finished sixth in the end.  We also reached the LC semi final and won the Scottish Cup.

The next few years we consistently finished 4th and got a game (sometimes two!) in Europe but were mostly poor in the cups.

Give me that 2014 season every time!!