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16 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

 

Well argued. 

 

11 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

If that squad is more than good enough to win most games they play then why couldn't Lennon do it? 

Because the guy's not a great manager and given his very public criticisms of Kamberi he's maybe not incredibly respected by his players? 

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20 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

Yet they’ve failed to win in five and in his previous spells at Hibs he had sides with players that were more than good enough not to lose 16 times over two Championship seasons, more than good enough to get through the playoffs and more than good enough to finish above Falkirk. They failed to do those things because Stubbs is a bad manager.

He’ll obviously always be popular among Hibs fans for the cup win but his overall managerial record, including his league record at Hibs, is genuinely terrible. Having a good record in cup competitions doesn’t make him an appropriate choice to take over a side with an unhappy squad who are on a terrible run which needs to be turned around, and doesn’t compensate for the reality of that being the last kind of setting Stubbs is likely to perform well in.

I absolutely agree. I love the man but there’s no way I’d have him back. 

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The big picture here is not Lennon, it has to be the fact that Philly, yep Philly made a decent post.

Fucking astonishing.

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26 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

Yet they’ve failed to win in five and in his previous spells at Hibs he had sides with players that were more than good enough not to lose 16 times over two Championship seasons, more than good enough to get through the playoffs and more than good enough to finish above Falkirk. They failed to do those things because Stubbs is a bad manager.

He’ll obviously always be popular among Hibs fans for the cup win but his overall managerial record, including his league record at Hibs, is genuinely terrible. Having a good record in cup competitions doesn’t make him an appropriate choice to take over a side with an unhappy squad who are on a terrible run which needs to be turned around, and doesn’t compensate for the reality of that being the last kind of setting Stubbs is likely to perform well in.

Is P36, W19, D14, L3 a terrible record in the Championship?

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3 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

Is P36, W19, D14, L3 a terrible record in the Championship?

When you're paying one of the top six wages in the country, and that division contains part time sides, then failing to win 47% of your matches is terrible. 

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Yet they’ve failed to win in five and in his previous spells at Hibs he had sides with players that were more than good enough not to lose 16 times over two Championship seasons, more than good enough to get through the playoffs and more than good enough to finish above Falkirk. They failed to do those things because Stubbs is a bad manager.
He’ll obviously always be popular among Hibs fans for the cup win but his overall managerial record, including his league record at Hibs, is genuinely terrible. Having a good record in cup competitions doesn’t make him an appropriate choice to take over a side with an unhappy squad who are on a terrible run which needs to be turned around, and doesn’t compensate for the reality of that being the last kind of setting Stubbs is likely to perform well in.
Add in Darren Jackson to the mix and its a recipe for relegation in a normal season.

To be fair to Stubbs he didn't rip up a title winning squad. We lost our 2 best players in Morgan and Davies, who were one of the few players capable of making the step up.

Hibs need a manager with good man management skills. I reckon Strachan would be a superb appointment, maybe the best one they could possibly make.

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2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

When you're paying one of the top six wages in the country, and that division contains part time sides, then failing to win 47% of your matches is terrible. 

That's Neil Lennon's Championship record. Which is exactly the point I was trying to make.

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I thought it was widely believed that John Doolan was a big factor in Stubbs success at Hibs. They built a great team but often failed to have a plan B against teams that sat in against us. Stubbs hasn't covered himself in glory since he left us, I'd be tempted to give it Strachan t' end o' season.

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Just now, ShrooTheLookingGlass said:

I thought it was widely believed that John Doolan was a big factor in Stubbs success at Hibs. They built a great team but often failed to have a plan B against teams that sat in against us. Stubbs hasn't covered himself in glory since he left us, I'd be tempted to give it Strachan t' end o' season.

Doolan was and I'd be very prepared to give him the job in the summer if he wanted it.

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7 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

That's Neil Lennon's Championship record. Which is exactly the point I was trying to make.

Does that mean Stubbs is a good choice though?

You'd be idiots to hire him again, IMO.

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Just now, sergie's no1 fan said:

Add in Darren Jackson to the mix and its a recipe for relegation in a normal season.

To be fair to Stubbs he didn't rip up a title winning squad. We lost our 2 best players in Morgan and Davies, who were one of the few players capable of making the step up.

Hibs need a manager with good man management skills. I reckon Strachan would be a superb appointment, maybe the best one they could possibly make.

I won't argue too much on that however he created discontent in epic proportions. He told five regulars of the Championship winning team to find new clubs even though two of them had signed new contracts just weeks before he was appointed. When the existing squad saw the new Stubbs' signings they were shocked that these players were so bad and good pros were being shown the door. Discontent was rife.

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13 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Does that mean Stubbs is a good choice though?

You'd be idiots to hire him again, IMO.

That's not what makes Stubbs a good choice, but it contextualises this "terrible league manager" label that Stubbs has been given by some Hibs fans and a lot of neutrals. It simply isn't true, and if it is then Lennon has to be given a similar label, because he 'outperformed' Stubbs in a much weaker Championship by a single point.

Back to Stubbs, he had two bad spells as manager, one at the very start when he was trying to assemble a team from the car crash that Butcher had left behind, and then in the spring of 2016 when he couldn't operate a team to fight on three fronts. Finishing third behind Falkirk is a price worth paying for wining the Scottish and reaching the League Cup Final. He is the only manager in our history to take us to both cup finals in a season, and though Motherwell and Aberdeen have done in the last couple of years, it's pretty rare that a non-OF side does that.

Maybe I'm just a bit of a romantic when it comes to football, but clubs like Hibs are, with the best will in the world, not going to ruthlessly conquer and dominate Scottish football. People get so worked up about whether we finish 5th or 8th when in truth it really doesn't matter.

What do matter (to me at least) are the cups, they are the only realistic chance of success that Hibs have, and we have only won six in our history.  Stubbs is good in cups, let's give it a go.


Edit: TLDR, some standard Hibs warrior poetry.

Edited by HibsFan

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1 minute ago, sidofthesouth said:

Strachan would be a fantastic appointment for u guys. Is it a realistic possibility?

He grew up a Hibs fan, seen him at Hibs matches fairly frequently and pretty sure he's living in or around Edinburgh. It's not that far fetched.

 

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The curse of Gauld strikes again - Ryan Gauld moves to a club and chaos ensues. Not the poor lad’s fault but McNamara must have put a hex on him.

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2 minutes ago, sidofthesouth said:

Strachan would be a fantastic appointment for u guys. Is it a realistic possibility?

Strachan hasn't had a club job for eight years, his last post at Boro was an epic failure with some terrible football being played.  His style of football is generally negative and I'm sure wouldn't go down well at Easter Road.  He also fucked up a relatively easy group as national team manager.  

He is also  61, surely Hibs should be looking at a younger, ambitious manager.  Strachan is a wee tadger.

 

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Stubbs was a bawhair away from being the first non OF manager to win the double in 26 years, and with a Championship side too. On paper that’s phenomenal. He failed to get promoted ahead of a rejuvenated Hearts and Rangers in the most competitive Championship ever, which isn’t completely shameful. Yes, we finished behind Falkirk 2nd season, but we also had an insane fixture pile up due to the 2 cup finals, and 4 semi finals that season. He rebuilt Hibs from scratch, and it’s telling that we are only starting to nosedive now Lennon has built his own team. 

That said, we’re not looking for a manager to rebuild, we are looking for someone who can get the best out of an existing group of players and Stubbs doesn’t have a track record of that. 

Edited by Austinho

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4 hours ago, Willie adie said:

id expect

mcinnes

Tommy wright

steve clarke 

gordon strachan 

to be the 4 on the shortlist

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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