"The ICT Thread - The Championship Years"

[bdu98196]

Regarding Gardiner, not sure whether there is an issue from a fans perspective, but there are a few potential concerns.

Originally on arrival it was touted that improvements in communications from within the club and building a closer union with fans was an objective, overall though I'm not sure this has been achieved or there have been significant strides or efforts shown to address.

The appointments around the club, it may well be these are the best people for the jobs and present value both financially and contribution, however from the outside appointments such as JR into DoF role and BD are not providing the success perhaps expected. This may be classed as a bedding in or transition period, however it may also be questioned as being nepotism keeping pals in jobs. Only time will tell based on whether this turns around and who might be future appointments (given we have Neil McCann for a short while too - all so far the Dundee, Hearts, Rangers connections to SG)

On the financial side without having significant access or time to look into it all (unlike others), there had perhaps not been the levels of investment into the club that was hoped, however we have had a pandemic to deal with and everyone knows football is just a big charity with no chance of return - so its really donations not investments - and how many wealth benefactors are really out there? But overall the club does feel to be a bit better and more stable, debts managed and some investment all round. Maybe not the strides forward everyone wants but certainly improving and not a step backwards (on the face of it).

[SandyCromarty]

1 hour ago, TDog said:

Strange response 

I didn’t claim to know anything about the club’s finances. However since Gardiner has come in we have managed to build a gym, employe data analysis, employe a dof and knocked back over six figures for Robbie Deas. All that would suggest the club is in a better place financially. 

 

Granted I forgot about his comments regarding the streaming service but was curious why people on this thread thought he was the problem. 

Not a strange response from me at all as your original post clearly stated that Gardiner had quote 'Seems to have done a decent job getting the club more financially stable' unquote.

Now that indicated to me that you are aware of what financial stabilisation Gardiner had carried out and all I was asking, in all absolute honesty, which areas has he done this?

Your answer above seems to point to the fact that he has spent money by building a gym.

I'm not trying to be nasty or am I on a wind up.

[TDog]

2 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

Not a strange response from me at all as your original post clearly stated that Gardiner had quote 'Seems to have done a decent job getting the club more financially stable' unquote.

Now that indicated to me that you are aware of what financial stabilisation Gardiner had carried out and all I was asking, in all absolute honesty, which areas has he done this?

Your answer above seems to point to the fact that he has spent money by building a gym.

I'm not trying to be nasty or am I on a wind up.

You would think if the club is in a position to build a new gym, the financial situation has improved to afford it. 

Fwiw I’m not defending Gardiner, just not convinced he’s the problem at the club 

[The Mantis]

14 hours ago, Yorick said:

While every team sooner or later blames the manager, were there not issues before Billy Dodds even arrived?

ICT from my memory were hardly playing teams off the park with silky football under Robertson. He seemed to be 'criticism free', few complained about Robertson. Didn't get you promoted either.

What changed? They appeared to be flying under Dodds at start of season. Was certainly a very impressive run, was he not due some credit there? 

Neil McCann was a great temporary appointment, was there no chance of getting him full time? Don't remember what happened at the time. 

If ICT make the play offs, which I think they will, is that not a successful season? Why are they expected to finish above bigger budget teams like Killie/Hearts/Dundee Utd/Dundee?

Is Scot Gardiner doing a good job? Why is Dodds getting all the blame, isn't there more to this than simply swapping the manager out? 

Dodds still a United legend, hope he does succeed and get ICT promoted.

 

I realise your post has an element of “know your place” and I understand that.

Without descending into “our club is special” you have to realise that from 1994 to 2016 ICT probably was special (apart from an unlucky 37 point relegation in 2009 which we quickly bounced back from).

The reason was that we had the right people in place and continually replaced them with more of the right people. When you have that at a club you can achieve pretty much anything. Compared to our richer neighbours across the bridge we made great appointments in Paterson, Robbo, Brewster Mk1, Butcher and Hughes while MacGregor presided over a number of sackings.

If you keep making the right appointments you can keep this up almost indefinitely regardless of budgets. We absolutely murdered Dundee in the run-in in 2010 and I see no reason why we would be any different competing with Killie in the league. I don’t recall anybody expecting us to compete with Hearts or to a lesser extent United.

When Kenny Cameron refused Hughes permission to speak to Utd in 2016 it set in motion a chain of events which has ruined everything at the club. We’re now in a sort of Falkirk situation which could see things getting a lot worse.

FWIW I don’t think Dodds is getting all the stick. Most people seem to think a root and branch clearout is needed. When we recruited Gardiner everybody was pointing and laughing at us, and he certainly seems to have recruited some of his old pals, possibly to our detriment, although for me the jury is out, mainly because the club has stopped talking to the fans, so nobody has a clue what is going on. But no, I don’t think Dodds is a good manager. Maybe a coach but as a manager he has no track record at all. Being a Utd legend doesn’t really help us.

[Yorick]

How much of the success was down to people like Terry Butcher, Charlie Christie, even John Hughes and scouts? Remember ICT made some great signings from lower leagues in England round Butcher's time particularly. Even outgoing players lost to Aberdeen and the like, were well replaced. Certainly appeared to have very good scouts who could find quality. Why has the quality lately not been as good? Though I guess it's the same for most teams in the Championship, this season particularly. Has any team being outstanding outside Arbroath? 

[bdu98196]

Standard answer for any Scottish club, we got a bit of success then paid higher contracts to existing players and new ones thinking we could push on when realistically we were at our ceiling.

Unrest created by not letting Yogi leave or discuss with DUtd, set of a chain of events with pay-offs and steady decline in quality throughout the club.

Appointing Foran (player/manager) on a long term (4 year) high value managerial contract with little experience or the ability to match - keep him there too long, players dont play for him, results fall away and we get relegated (should have gone in the 3-0 pumping by Hamillton)

Still got guys in the Championship on Premiership salaries, so have to cut of cloth elsewhere meaning an unbalanced team coupled with poor recruitment. Fail to get up first time round then slowly the income drops, footfall drops all resulting in lower quality product on the park with less quality players etc. Add in Covid etc we are no where we are.

Its a very similar story we see often.

There are mistakes (many of them) but we as a club should be in a better position then we are even given some of the past.

[SandyCromarty]

15 hours ago, The Mantis said:

I realise your post has an element of “know your place” and I understand that.

Without descending into “our club is special” you have to realise that from 1994 to 2016 ICT probably was special (apart from an unlucky 37 point relegation in 2009 which we quickly bounced back from).

The reason was that we had the right people in place and continually replaced them with more of the right people. When you have that at a club you can achieve pretty much anything. Compared to our richer neighbours across the bridge we made great appointments in Paterson, Robbo, Brewster Mk1, Butcher and Hughes while MacGregor presided over a number of sackings.

If you keep making the right appointments you can keep this up almost indefinitely regardless of budgets. We absolutely murdered Dundee in the run-in in 2010 and I see no reason why we would be any different competing with Killie in the league. I don’t recall anybody expecting us to compete with Hearts or to a lesser extent United.

When Kenny Cameron refused Hughes permission to speak to Utd in 2016 it set in motion a chain of events which has ruined everything at the club. We’re now in a sort of Falkirk situation which could see things getting a lot worse.

FWIW I don’t think Dodds is getting all the stick. Most people seem to think a root and branch clearout is needed. When we recruited Gardiner everybody was pointing and laughing at us, and he certainly seems to have recruited some of his old pals, possibly to our detriment, although for me the jury is out, mainly because the club has stopped talking to the fans, so nobody has a clue what is going on. But no, I don’t think Dodds is a good manager. Maybe a coach but as a manager he has no track record at all. Being a Utd legend doesn’t really help us.

Well put as usual, 10 attaboys to you.

[SandyCromarty]

18 hours ago, TDog said:

You would think if the club is in a position to build a new gym, the financial situation has improved to afford it. 

Fwiw I’m not defending Gardiner, just not convinced he’s the problem at the club 

Fair enough.

One of our income streams is a share of the SFA Club Academy grants awarded to 25 Scottish clubs which may have helped towards the gym.

Interestingly Tulloch, as far as I know, own the car parks where the gym is located, so hopefully build permission from them was allowed with no charges.

[Yorick]

22 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

Standard answer for any Scottish club, we got a bit of success then paid higher contracts to existing players and new ones thinking we could push on when realistically we were at our ceiling.

Unrest created by not letting Yogi leave or discuss with DUtd, set of a chain of events with pay-offs and steady decline in quality throughout the club.

Appointing Foran (player/manager) on a long term (4 year) high value managerial contract with little experience or the ability to match - keep him there too long, players dont play for him, results fall away and we get relegated (should have gone in the 3-0 pumping by Hamillton)

Still got guys in the Championship on Premiership salaries, so have to cut of cloth elsewhere meaning an unbalanced team coupled with poor recruitment. Fail to get up first time round then slowly the income drops, footfall drops all resulting in lower quality product on the park with less quality players etc. Add in Covid etc we are no where we are.

Its a very similar story we see often.

There are mistakes (many of them) but we as a club should be in a better position then we are even given some of the past.

Guess that would have an effect on a team, when some players still on Premiership salaries, while others on Championship? Can anyone estimate the difference per week? 

Should they make the play offs, still wouldn't bet against ICT going up through them. Having Inverness in Premiership along with County makes superb away days for the rest of us! 

[PB1994]

11 minutes ago, Yorick said:

Should they make the play offs, still wouldn't bet against ICT going up through them. Having Inverness in Premiership along with County makes superb away days for the rest of us! 

That’s because you haven’t seen us play. No chance we get promoted or even finish in the playoffs if things don’t change.

[Yorick]

21 hours ago, PB1994 said:

That’s because you haven’t seen us play. No chance we get promoted or even finish in the playoffs if things don’t change.

I will be watching Hamilton v ICT match live via iPlayer tonight. Easy for me to say, but looking forward to it, something to do on a Friday night. Wish there were more Championship matches on the TV. Hope the full play offs will be televised, if Dundee finish in the play off spot, will be box office! 

[SandyCromarty]

Thank feck for those results today which meant we kept third spot, after the dross we served up last night I thought we could have been in table freefall.

Joe Hardy looked like a bewildered hamster when he came on.

[Roland]

While the draw last night was disappointing, don't think Kilmarnock, Raith or Partick are that much better. Still think we will make the play offs, despite this run. Winning the play offs is another matter, just can't see it, but you never know...

[Central Belt Caley]

Anyone else think Cammy Mackay had a good game last night? Was pleasantly surprised with him, didn’t have much chance with the goal but looked steady otherwise 

[PB1994]

1 hour ago, Central Belt Caley said:

Anyone else think Cammy Mackay had a good game last night? Was pleasantly surprised with him, didn’t have much chance with the goal but looked steady otherwise 

I think he’s been decent both games he’s played. Maybe could have come out for the corner Ayr scored from but I think that is perhaps a bit harsh on him.

[SandyCromarty]

11 hours ago, Central Belt Caley said:

Anyone else think Cammy Mackay had a good game last night? Was pleasantly surprised with him, didn’t have much chance with the goal but looked steady otherwise 

From what I've seen of him over the two games I would say we're lucky to have him.

[Dennis_WYNESS]

On 26/02/2022 at 19:51, Central Belt Caley said:

Anyone else think Cammy Mackay had a good game last night? Was pleasantly surprised with him, didn’t have much chance with the goal but looked steady otherwise 

He has always done well when he's stepped in for us. Just glad we've managed to hold on to him for so long as we normally let our young local keepers go out on loan to highland league clubs or elgin and never to be seen again.

[TheScarf]

4 hours ago, Dennis_WYNESS said:

He has always done well when he's stepped in for us. Just glad we've managed to hold on to him for so long as we normally let our young local keepers go out on loan to highland league clubs or elgin and never to be seen again.

He's a very decent second keeper for this level.  It's a shame our wingers can't create anything and our centre midfielders are all made of fucking glass.

[TheScarf]

I see our esteemed, annoying little brother across the bridge are having a Q and A with Mackay and Cowie this month.  I wonder if Dodds/Gardiner etc would be brave enough to host one for us.  I won't hold my breath.

[SandyCromarty]

29 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

I see our esteemed, annoying little brother across the bridge are having a Q and A with Mackay and Cowie this month.  I wonder if Dodds/Gardiner etc would be brave enough to host one for us.  I won't hold my breath.

Rather than a Q & A with Dodds and Gardiner a one sided Shouting Match from us would be more appropriate.