weirdcal Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 2 hours ago, bdu98196 said: But hardly grounds for some fans calling to have him instated as an Assistant Manager - Slightly tubby ex-pro scores against some butchers, bakers & candlestick makers while being filmed on a fucking gameboy colour. Never said he should be? Just asked if it had been seen. If you want an interesting stat. Look at our managers win %s over our history. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdu98196 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 9 hours ago, weirdcal said: If you want an interesting stat. Look at our managers win %s over our history. Stats mean very little, its actual results that mean something. Churning out the usual Pele or Robbo#1 have great stats and highest win ratios, even seen someone lumping Dudds into there means pretty much f**k all. Playing in the seaside leagues or even the Championship compared to guys who managed the team in the Premiership is useless. Facts are our most successful manager (whether anyone likes it or not) is Yogi, he delivered 3rd place SPL, a SC and a LG final - those are facts. Current fact is this Championship is absolute shite quality (possibly even worse than last year and that is some going) and we have a team and budget (shown by the size and depth of our squad) that should be fighting for the title which we are not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyCromarty Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) I wouldn't want to see Tokely in any managerial capacity at our club after seeing his behaviour and bawling out his players from the touchline when he managed Brora. Good man management is positive encouragement and the ability to listen. At our level the best I saw with the above capabilities was Pele. Edited January 9, 2023 by SandyCromarty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthStand10 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 2 hours ago, bdu98196 said: Stats mean very little, its actual results that mean something. Churning out the usual Pele or Robbo#1 have great stats and highest win ratios, even seen someone lumping Dudds into there means pretty much f**k all. Playing in the seaside leagues or even the Championship compared to guys who managed the team in the Premiership is useless. Facts are our most successful manager (whether anyone likes it or not) is Yogi, he delivered 3rd place SPL, a SC and a LG final - those are facts. Current fact is this Championship is absolute shite quality (possibly even worse than last year and that is some going) and we have a team and budget (shown by the size and depth of our squad) that should be fighting for the title which we are not. I reckon we’d be in the play-offs at a minimum currently if we didn’t have so many injuries and the fact we aren’t even that far off it highlights how bad the league is this season 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdu98196 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 42 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said: Good man management is positive encouragement and the ability to listen. At our level the best I saw with the above capabilities was Pele. Brewster probably had the fittest group of players including bringing health & training methods that are now common considered place. Butcher probably had us for periods tactically set up best and Yogi played some of the most attractive football (that 2014-15 season especially). Its clear that each manager brings different offerings with various levels of fan popularity and reviews in history. However, right now the Dodds legacy will be high level inconsistency, long loosing runs, poor entertainment and falling out with key players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdu98196 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, NorthStand10 said: I reckon we’d be in the play-offs at a minimum currently if we didn’t have so many injuries and the fact we aren’t even that far off it highlights how bad the league is this season The injury list has pretty much not changed in weeks. 8 of the players who started at PT played on Sat, yet now seem to be 'back'. Not much has changed other than Ridgers returns and a new addition - certainly not the injury situation. Therefore does it not look ridiculous that it has been banded as the excuse for so long - clearly a lot more too this now the dressing room harmony appear to 'restored' and players want to play (again). We saw last year how big the play-off gulf is becoming between Premiership & Championship therefore winning the title is the only guaranteed way to get promoted. Realistically the chances of the Championship teams winning the play-off going forwards is going to be ever decreasing due to budgets and quality. When you factor is the dross levels of this division and as you state 'we aren't even far off' just shows if we were galvanised and a more tactically astute (irrespective of restrictions faced) then we would be in a much more positive position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthStand10 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, bdu98196 said: The injury list has pretty much not changed in weeks. 8 of the players who started at PT played on Sat, yet now seem to be 'back'. Not much has changed other than Ridgers returns and a new addition - certainly not the injury situation. Therefore does it not look ridiculous that it has been banded as the excuse for so long - clearly a lot more too this now the dressing room harmony appear to 'restored' and players want to play (again). We saw last year how big the play-off gulf is becoming between Premiership & Championship therefore winning the title is the only guaranteed way to get promoted. Realistically the chances of the Championship teams winning the play-off going forwards is going to be ever decreasing due to budgets and quality. When you factor is the dross levels of this division and as you state 'we aren't even far off' just shows if we were galvanised and a more tactically astute (irrespective of restrictions faced) then we would be in a much more positive position. I’ll respond to your points when I get a minute later. Between now and then could you give your opinion on this, we are 10 points off the top, 6 off second and 4 off the play-offs with a game in hand on some. Simple yes or no answer is fine: 1) do you think we’d have more points on the board if we didn’t have so many injuries? 2) do you reckon we could have won at least a couple more games? Edited January 9, 2023 by NorthStand10 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdu98196 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, NorthStand10 said: Between now and then could you give your opinion on this, we are 10 points off the top, 6 off second and 4 off the play-offs with a game in hand on some. My opinion is that you seem to be accepting of mediocrity and bought into the propaganda being spun by the club that injuries are the only reason for mediocre performances. you have a refusal to acknowledge the limited tactics and lack of galvanised squad lies with the manager. Its clear that we should have more points on the board than we do and better results, whether that relies on squad changes or performing better with those that have been available. There has to be questions asked why the performances were so abject against Morton & PT for example yet now with the same core (8 players) in the team we are winning and have a whole 'new' mood - unless anyone is suggesting the 3 changes are the scapegoats for all that was wrong because the team style or play and tactics haven't changed - therefore something has changed in the dynamic of the camp. Edited January 9, 2023 by bdu98196 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyCromarty Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, bdu98196 said: Brewster probably had the fittest group of players including bringing health & training methods that are now common considered place. Butcher probably had us for periods tactically set up best and Yogi played some of the most attractive football (that 2014-15 season especially). Its clear that each manager brings different offerings with various levels of fan popularity and reviews in history. However, right now the Dodds legacy will be high level inconsistency, long loosing runs, poor entertainment and falling out with key players. Brewster was terrible at man management, his whole ethos revolved around Craig Brewster and the big I am, he was unpopular among players with his disciplinary regime and was sacked when we had a bad run and we were at the bottom of the league. I recall Barry Wilson being dropped by him and when I asked Barry why he said that Brewster said he was overweight? I suspect it was more to do with Barry being a better player. Edited January 9, 2023 by SandyCromarty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthStand10 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 55 minutes ago, bdu98196 said: My opinion is that you seem to be accepting of mediocrity and bought into the propaganda being spun by the club that injuries are the only reason for mediocre performances. you have a refusal to acknowledge the limited tactics and lack of galvanised squad lies with the manager. Its clear that we should have more points on the board than we do and better results, whether that relies on squad changes or performing better with those that have been available. There has to be questions asked why the performances were so abject against Morton & PT for example yet now with the same core (8 players) in the team we are winning and have a whole 'new' mood - unless anyone is suggesting the 3 changes are the scapegoats for all that was wrong because the team style or play and tactics haven't changed - therefore something has changed in the dynamic of the camp. My opinion is injuries are the most important reason for the downturn in form but NOT the only reason, your opinion appears to solely blame the manager and you can’t see past that. You accused me of buying into propaganda from the club which is incorrect. I CAN see limitations in the manager and thought we were very generous not sacking him during last seasons awful run, but I believe this time it’s mainly down to injuries. You agree we should have more points which is good. You refer to a new mood - who’d have thought ending a bad spell by scoring 10 goals and winning a couple games brings positivity and confidence! Furthermore, the main “core” of our team is injured or were until recently (deas, devine, macgregor, allardice etc). Henderson joined up, Ridgers and Dan Mackay returned and this improved the team recently. I hope we can take this good momentum from beating two poor teams into playing better opponents like Morton and Partick. You know as well as I do if we didn’t have so many key players out that even a couple extra wins would see us fighting it out at the top and that’s exactly why you avoided my second question. Edited January 9, 2023 by NorthStand10 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 6 hours ago, NorthStand10 said: My opinion is injuries are the most important reason for the downturn in form but NOT the only reason, your opinion appears to solely blame the manager and you can’t see past that. You accused me of buying into propaganda from the club which is incorrect. I CAN see limitations in the manager and thought we were very generous not sacking him during last seasons awful run, but I believe this time it’s mainly down to injuries. You agree we should have more points which is good. You refer to a new mood - who’d have thought ending a bad spell by scoring 10 goals and winning a couple games brings positivity and confidence! Furthermore, the main “core” of our team is injured or were until recently (deas, devine, macgregor, allardice etc). Henderson joined up, Ridgers and Dan Mackay returned and this improved the team recently. I hope we can take this good momentum from beating two poor teams into playing better opponents like Morton and Partick. You know as well as I do if we didn’t have so many key players out that even a couple extra wins would see us fighting it out at the top and that’s exactly why you avoided my second question. How dare you come on here with a post of such downright reasonableness! In a league of such small margins there are some players that seem to be worth more than the shirt they fill. A quick look at this season's results and when Allardice has played we got a favourable result 80% of the time. When he didn't, that fell to 54%. There are big players for us. When they are available, fully fit and firing, we shouldn't have too much cause for complaint. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis_WYNESS Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 On 09/01/2023 at 10:45, bdu98196 said: Brewster probably had the fittest group of players including bringing health & training methods that are now common considered place. Butcher probably had us for periods tactically set up best and Yogi played some of the most attractive football (that 2014-15 season especially). Its clear that each manager brings different offerings with various levels of fan popularity and reviews in history. However, right now the Dodds legacy will be high level inconsistency, long loosing runs, poor entertainment and falling out with key players. What did Foran offer? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micaley68 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 4 hours ago, Dennis_WYNESS said: What did Foran offer? Joma sports teamware! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdu98196 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 4 hours ago, Dennis_WYNESS said: What did Foran offer? Never suggested they were all positives, just different offerings like tactical ineptitude and a stubbornness to change formations when it didn't work, before falling out with players and causing dressing room unrest. So maybe some are more similar than others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthStand10 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, bdu98196 said: Never suggested they were all positives, just different offerings like tactical ineptitude and a stubbornness to change formations when it didn't work, before falling out with players and causing dressing room unrest. So maybe some are more similar than others. I’m genuinely not having a go here but you’ve mentioned players falling out with Dodds previously, who are the players / what’s supposed to have happened? (By “players” I’m guessing it’s more than the Ridgers rumours?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityDave94 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 On 09/01/2023 at 07:52, bdu98196 said: Stats mean very little, its actual results that mean something. Churning out the usual Pele or Robbo#1 have great stats and highest win ratios, even seen someone lumping Dudds into there means pretty much f**k all. Playing in the seaside leagues or even the Championship compared to guys who managed the team in the Premiership is useless. Facts are our most successful manager (whether anyone likes it or not) is Yogi, he delivered 3rd place SPL, a SC and a LG final - those are facts. Current fact is this Championship is absolute shite quality (possibly even worse than last year and that is some going) and we have a team and budget (shown by the size and depth of our squad) that should be fighting for the title which we are not. I'm a little slow to catch onto your logic here, so could you explain why stats should be dismissed as previously I understood the relationship between the two is that statistics are facts as numbers or numbers as facts which ever way? Your actual results are stats as well as facts. Your own conclusion that Yogi was our most successful manager could not have been arrived at without using stats to support that viewpoint and prove that as a fact, which is correct. Also given that we are 10 points behind the leader at 20 games in 6th place and compare that to Rangers in 2nd place 9 points behind battling away with Celtic which is still regarded by many as a battle for the title since its only January, I can't see why we are not regarded as not still in a battle for the Championship title if there is only a one point difference in comparison. It can't be one is and the other isn't just because we are sitting 6th with other teams inbetween us and Queen's Park. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdu98196 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 2 hours ago, approximately dave said: Also given that we are 10 points behind the leader at 20 games in 6th place and compare that to Rangers in 2nd place 9 points behind battling away with Celtic which is still regarded by many as a battle for the title since its only January, I can't see why we are not regarded as not still in a battle for the Championship title if there is only a one point difference in comparison. It can't be one is and the other isn't just because we are sitting 6th with other teams inbetween us and Queen's Park. I don't give 2 fucks about Rangers or Celtic and see no relevanceto anything here. Not once have I suggested we aren't still capable of competing but we should be in a much better position than are and based on current for longer than just 2 games we are relegation form not promotion or title winning. Those are facts. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityDave94 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 15 minutes ago, bdu98196 said: I don't give 2 fucks about Rangers or Celtic and see no relevanceto anything here. Not once have I suggested we aren't still capable of competing but we should be in a much better position than are and based on current for longer than just 2 games we are relegation form not promotion or title winning. Those are facts. You haven't answered my question on why you dismiss stats, as everything in your interpretation of stats influences your opinion right there in your post even though you don't realise it. And your opinion is not automatically a fact just because you say and seriously! .....based on current but .....erm for longer than just 2 games??. Do you understand what current form is? If you want to be selective with stats that's up to you, personally I find that piece of goal post moving hilarious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthStand10 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, approximately dave said: You haven't answered my question on why you dismiss stats, as everything in your interpretation of stats influences your opinion right there in your post even though you don't realise it. And your opinion is not automatically a fact just because you say and seriously! .....based on current but .....erm for longer than just 2 games??. Do you understand what current form is? If you want to be selective with stats that's up to you, personally I find that piece of goal post moving hilarious. Spot on. He takes his opinions as facts and when someone proves him wrong he either doesn’t reply or throws his toys out the pram. He mentioned “dressing room unrest” but apparently he “can’t get into it as it’s private.” He also said we have good squad depth, if he think’s having 2 senior player on the bench is good depth god help him (a goalkeeper and George Oakley). He refused to accept injuries to key players are badly impacting us. Also, apparently results matter not win percentages, while that might be true to an extent don’t the results determine the win percentage? Edited January 10, 2023 by NorthStand10 -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdu98196 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) Watch you guys don't get wrist injuries with your constant happy clapping. Edited January 10, 2023 by bdu98196 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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