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6 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-energy-fracking/scotland-rejects-fracking-citing-overwhelming-public-opposition-idUKKCN1C81M5

"Scotland will block fracking indefinitely" "Scotland imposed a moratorium on fracking, the process of fracturing underground shale rock to release gas and oil, in 2015 and that will now remain for the foreseeable future. "

Effectively banned but not officially banned. 

That article was published before the quotes from his boss to Parliament.

Edited by strichener

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1 hour ago, strichener said:

That article was published before the quotes from his boss to Parliament.

Yeah but like I said, the context is missing.  It omits the actual detail of what was proposed.

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And here it is.

http://archive.is/nJxeI

"Indeed, as it reached its culmination at Holyrood today, Liam MacArthur of the Liberal Democrats gently - very gently - chided the Minister, Paul Wheelhouse, for taking the "scenic route" in arriving at his destination.
And that destination? An effective ban. As opposed to what, an ineffective ban? Certainly, the terminology provoked yet more debate. Why could there not be a law simply banning fracking outright?
Mr Wheelhouse explained that this would tie up scarce parliamentary time which might be required for such minor matters as Brexit.
Others in government have argued that a new law is unnecessary and ineffectual as it could be overturned by a future parliament in any case.
So what to do? The minister's approach is to transform an existing temporary moratorium into a lasting ban, deploying planning law. That will then be finalised following a further strategic environmental assessment. (Told you this was a protracted tale.)"
No ban.  The moratorium continues.  Sod off, INEOS.

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2 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

Yeah but like I said, the context is missing.  It omits the actual detail of what was proposed.

The context was in the question from the Green representative who prompted the response.  I am not disputing the existence of a ban or otherwise, just pointing out that the Government appears to be arguing that it both exists and that it doesn't concurrently.

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1 minute ago, strichener said:

The context was in the question from the Green representative who prompted the response.  I am not disputing the existence of a ban or otherwise, just pointing out that the Government appears to be arguing that it both exists and that it doesn't concurrently.

Using process rather than problematic legislation to achieve a goal is not unknown in Government. They don't have the power to issue a formal ban so they're just saying they'll refuse planning permission.  Same result. I don't see any deception here, it will be interesting to see how the Ineos legal campaign goes. BTW I don't agree with Government by popularity poll, the decision on fracking should be made on the science and not on ill informed bias. 

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2 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Using process rather than problematic legislation to achieve a goal is not unknown in Government. They don't have the power to issue a formal ban so they're just saying they'll refuse planning permission.  Same result. I don't see any deception here, it will be interesting to see how the Ineos legal campaign goes. BTW I don't agree with Government by popularity poll, the decision on fracking should be made on the science and not on ill informed bias. 

If I put my pedant hat on - there is a vast difference between refusing planning permission (which the Government can't actually do as it is the responsibility of local authorities) and having a ban.  With the nuclear power stations, there was a change to the NPF, a step that hasn't yet been taken for fracking.

Edited by strichener

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10 minutes ago, strichener said:

If I put my pedant hat on - there is a vast difference between refusing planning permission (which the Government can't actually do as it is the responsibility of local authorities) and having a ban.  With the nuclear power stations, there was a change to the NPF, a step that hasn't yet been taken for fracking.

The Government can overrule local authorities on planning permission, otherwise they couldn't have said there would be no fracking.

http://www.parliament.scot/ResearchBriefingsAndFactsheets/S4/SB_14-87_Scottish_Ministers_Power_to_Call-in_Planning_Applications.pdf

P.S. Google tells me that NPF is the Naga People's Front.

 

Edited by welshbairn

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Surely the whole episode raises questions about the standard of government lawyers, they are arguing that a fracking ban isn't in place when multiple reliable sources- the SNP website, Nicola Sturgeon and government ministers - say the opposite. A quick Google would be all that is needed. 

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36 minutes ago, sparky88 said:

Surely the whole episode raises questions about the standard of government lawyers, they are arguing that a fracking ban isn't in place when multiple reliable sources- the SNP website, Nicola Sturgeon and government ministers - say the opposite. A quick Google would be all that is needed. 

That's Ineos's case. A ban would be illegal, that's why the Government lawyers are saying it isn't one, in strictly legal terms.

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59 minutes ago, sparky88 said:

Surely the whole episode raises questions about the standard of government lawyers, they are arguing that a fracking ban isn't in place when multiple reliable sources- the SNP website, Nicola Sturgeon and government ministers - say the opposite. A quick Google would be all that is needed. 

 

20 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

That's Ineos's case. A ban would be illegal, that's why the Government lawyers are saying it isn't one, in strictly legal terms.

The SNP 's sleekit Lawyers have lots and lots of previous. But it beggars belief that the Scots Government can treat a company which has invested over £1.5 billion pounds locally on services which are absolutely essential  to the Scottish economy and which provides employment for around 10 thousand people so casually. Why on earth should anyone even consider investing in Scotland?

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3 minutes ago, Blue Brazil Forever said:

 

The SNP 's sleekit Lawyers have lots and lots of previous. But it beggars belief that the Scots Government can treat a company which has invested over £1.5 billion pounds locally on services which are absolutely essential  to the Scottish economy and which provides employment for around 10 thousand people so casually. Why on earth should anyone even consider investing in Scotland?

Because it's about fracking, which would be an ecological disaster by all accounts.  There's more to Scotland than shale fracturing so lots of people happily invest here.

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10 minutes ago, Blue Brazil Forever said:

 

The SNP 's sleekit Lawyers have lots and lots of previous. But it beggars belief that the Scots Government can treat a company which has invested over £1.5 billion pounds locally on services which are absolutely essential  to the Scottish economy and which provides employment for around 10 thousand people so casually. Why on earth should anyone even consider investing in Scotland?

The Ineos boss Jim Ratcliffe has become the richest man in Britain, for starters.

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8 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Because it's about fracking, which would be an ecological disaster by all accounts.  

Workings please.

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On ‎11‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 17:33, strichener said:

The context was in the question from the Green representative who prompted the response.  I am not disputing the existence of a ban or otherwise, just pointing out that the Government appears to be arguing that it both exists and that it doesn't concurrently.

When is a ban not as ban? When it is a moratorium.  Incredible.You couldn't make it up :lol::lol::lol:

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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fracking-development-government-plan-accelerate-shale-gas-carbon-emissions-a8355756.html

Government announces plan to accelerate fracking developments by fast-tracking private companies' planning applications

Proposed changes to the planning process could put an area nearly the size of Wales at immediate risk of drilling.

Nothing to worry about.

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50 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fracking-development-government-plan-accelerate-shale-gas-carbon-emissions-a8355756.html

Government announces plan to accelerate fracking developments by fast-tracking private companies' planning applications

Proposed changes to the planning process could put an area nearly the size of Wales at immediate risk of drilling.

Nothing to worry about.

Fracking is going to be a disaster.  People don't realise how small the UK is too, it's not something we can take a risk with.  It's the thing I most want to see the Scottish government stand up to Westminster about, we have a tiny and stunningly beautiful country up here and nobody on the planet can guarantee fracking is safe long term.   Plus we don't need it anyway.

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