Baxter Parp Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Just now, welshbairn said: There's been loads of coverage of the SNP's position on the power grab. Define "loads" and show your workings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Peppino Impastato said: http://www.thenational.scot/news/16113298.Massive_turnout_for__Hands_Off_Our_Parliament__protest_at_Holyrood/ Quote THOUSANDS of people took part in a "Hands Off Our Parliament" (HOOP) protest outside Holyrood, in a show of solidarity for devolution and Scottish democracy. Hoop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: Define "loads" and show your workings. No, you must have been in a coma not to notice it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Just now, welshbairn said: I've got nothing. I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: I know you're right but I want to spend three pages arguing you're not by ignoring the facts and deflecting. Bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Just now, welshbairn said: A load of pish. You know the rules, you can make any statement you want but if you can't back it up, it can be ignored and treated like pish. You say "loads" I say "pish". I'm being perfectly fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 37 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Bye. You're always quick to ask other people to show their working so it's only fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said: You're always quick to ask other people to show their working so it's only fair However many links to news stories about the power grab I post, Parp will spend 3 pages of posts arguing it's not loads. I really can't be arsed. In your case I have every reason to ask for workings. Quote Cause it wasn't reported on the BBC at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieThomas Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 21 hours ago, welshbairn said: The anti-fracking people are just as biased, their natural hostility to carbon emissions leads them to twist all the other data against it. I'd like to see some unemotional and non-greedy assessments. I'm not sure that's possible. Best case scenario: Some rich men get richer Worst case: The environment gets fucked up So unless you think the middle ground is the environment is ok, and no **** makes any cash then unemotional and non-greedy isn't going to work. (And of course I need not point out that middle ground scenario is where we are with zero fracking...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, JamieThomas said: I'm not sure that's possible. Best case scenario: Some rich men get richer Worst case: The environment gets fucked up So unless you think the middle ground is the environment is ok, and no **** makes any cash then unemotional and non-greedy isn't going to work. (And of course I need not point out that middle ground scenario is where we are with zero fracking...) I'd just like to see some scientific evidence from someone without an agenda comparing risk factors and environmental damage from emissions and the extraction process with other forms of energy production. I understand it's preferable to coal regarding climate changing pollution for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Brazil Forever Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 We need to commence fracking tomorrow before Putin exacts his terrible revenge on Scotland by (a) suspending all Russian gas exports at the start of next winter and (b) by hacking into our smart power distribution network and (c) by sending another Beast from the East next November/December. Even the Ice Maiden will fall victim to hypothermia along with all the rest of us poor sods. At the very least she should come up with an immediate new energy strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 So is it banned or not? Sturgeon says Yes to Parliament and Conference, Lawyer says it isn't banned and that a ban is the government's "preferred position" in court. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44072425 Someone is telling lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 28 minutes ago, strichener said: So is it banned or not? Sturgeon says Yes to Parliament and Conference, Lawyer says it isn't banned and that a ban is the government's "preferred position" in court. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44072425 Someone is telling lies. It's legalese pedantry. The Scottish Government doesn't have the power to issue an outright ban but they can declare that they will refuse planning permission if it is sought. So it's an effective ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 32 minutes ago, strichener said: So is it banned or not? Sturgeon says Yes to Parliament and Conference, As far as I recall the reality is that the moratorium will continue indefinitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, welshbairn said: It's legalese pedantry. The Scottish Government doesn't have the power to issue an outright ban but they can declare that they will refuse planning permission if it is sought. So it's an effective ban. You know that pedantry and myself are like hand and glove. However, the lawyer was quite specific in what he stated - that the use of the phrase "effective ban" was PR gloss. Basically the governments case with Ineos is that you cannot have the ban reviewed as there is no ban. That isn't legalese pedantry, that is acting with deception in Parliament or in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, strichener said: You know that pedantry and myself are like hand and glove. However, the lawyer was quite specific in what he stated - that the use of the phrase "effective ban" was PR gloss. Basically the governments case with Ineos is that you cannot have the ban reviewed as there is no ban. That isn't legalese pedantry, that is acting with deception in Parliament or in court. It's still a moratorium, as far as I'm aware no law has been instituted or amended. This was discussed in parliament at the time and there were gangs of outraged opposition MSPs demanding a full ban, the SNP insisted that would attract legal action. Guess who was right. https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-energy-fracking/scotland-rejects-fracking-citing-overwhelming-public-opposition-idUKKCN1C81M5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, strichener said: You know that pedantry and myself are like hand and glove. However, the lawyer was quite specific in what that he stated - that the use of the phrase "effective ban" was PR gloss. Basically the governments case with Ineos is that you cannot have the ban reviewed as there is no ban. That isn't legalese pedantry, that is acting with deception in Parliament or in court. I can understand why Ineos are miffed, but it's not lying. Ineos are quite free to apply for fracking planning permission, so in that sense it's not a ban. The Scottish Government is also quite free to say they will refuse it. So in legalese it's not a ban but in the normal sense of the word, it is. I'm sure the lawyers will make a fortune out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 22 minutes ago, welshbairn said: I can understand why Ineos are miffed, but it's not lying. Ineos are quite free to apply for fracking planning permission, so in that sense it's not a ban. The Scottish Government is also quite free to say they will refuse it. So in legalese it's not a ban but in the normal sense of the word, it is. I'm sure the lawyers will make a fortune out of it. And yet in FMQs, the first minister stated (emphasis mine): Quote Let me be clear, because to some ears, it will sound as if some members are dancing on the head of a pin: fracking is being banned in Scotland—end of story. There will be no fracking in Scotland, and that position could not be clearer. Quote What Paul Wheelhouse outlined to the chamber earlier this week is an effective way of banning fracking and—as the precedent on nuclear energy demonstrates—is also the quickest way of banning fracking. Instead of continuing to have this abstract argument, those who, like me, do not believe that fracking should go ahead in Scotland should welcome the fact that fracking in Scotland is banned. Unambiguous. Quite ironic that the BBC were pulled up on a different thread for accurately portraying the Scottish Government's it is/it isn't position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, strichener said: And yet in FMQs, the first minister stated (emphasis mine): Unambiguous. Quite ironic that the BBC were pulled up on a different thread for accurately portraying the Scottish Government's it is/it isn't position. https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-energy-fracking/scotland-rejects-fracking-citing-overwhelming-public-opposition-idUKKCN1C81M5 "Scotland will block fracking indefinitely" "Scotland imposed a moratorium on fracking, the process of fracturing underground shale rock to release gas and oil, in 2015 and that will now remain for the foreseeable future. " Effectively banned but not officially banned. And, having read it, your "unambiguous" Sturgeon quote doesn't include what Paul Wheelhouse actually outlined to the chamber. So. Quite ambiguous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-energy-fracking/scotland-rejects-fracking-citing-overwhelming-public-opposition-idUKKCN1C81M5 "Scotland will block fracking indefinitely" "Scotland imposed a moratorium on fracking, the process of fracturing underground shale rock to release gas and oil, in 2015 and that will now remain for the foreseeable future. " Effectively banned but not officially banned. That article was published before the quotes from his boss to Parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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