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Auld Heid

Linlithgow Rose 2017-18

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8 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Yes, but they're also unlicensed and not sure how close they are to getting the necessary done at Harriet Road to change that... My feeling would be that by time BT were licensed, more in EoS would be too. You also have factor in that every relegation from LL takes another Licensed club doon.

This is true, and is why they'd need to get their licensing skates on.

But if the EoS is about to be dominated by the new Juniors (and LTHV) as everyone expects and the top side doesn't get their licensing in place in time, then there could be an opportunity for the SoS champions to go up unopposed.

I have a feeling too that the next few teams being relegated to the EoS from the LL may find it very difficult to go back up.

Also, if Dalbeattie Star were to be next for the drop, where will they drop to? SoS, or the new WoSL?

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41 minutes ago, gwd440 said:

...where will they drop to? SoS, or the new WoSL?

Will be interesting to see whether the licensed SoS clubs will be expected to join this new WoSL and whether the SoS will become a feeder to it if licensing becomes the norm at tier 6 as the EoS seem to be aiming for at the moment. There's no real need for three feeders to the LL given how small the population of Dumfries and Galloway is and how reluctant some of the licensed clubs from there appear to be to be in the LL from a travel standpoint.

1 hour ago, gwd440 said:

I have a feeling too that the next few teams being relegated to the EoS from the LL may find it very difficult to go back up.

Some of the Borders teams will probably be looking at consecutive relegations now to find their natural level. Hopefully Bo'ness and Lithgae both see what way the wind is blowing now and avoid ever having to be at that sort of level to be able to progress higher.

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6 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

 

I am desperate for someone to present me a reason to back my original view.

Our home crowds are all Linlithgow with very few visitors other than Boness and Bonnyrigg both who are leaving. Last night it was mostly our fans most away games are the same.

Watching the Rose play any of the teams remaining holds the same appeal as playing the teams you reference.  But to not have games against the teams I reference would make staying worse.

20 years ago I couldn't imagine not having feisty affairs against Whitburn.  They chose unwisely at that time not to join the super league. I see a lot of similarities in that decision to our current stance.

I agree, except for one thing. Our crowds do seem to fluctuate quite significantly depending on the opposition. If Whitburn were in the Superleague I think we'd get bigger crowds for those games than for, say Forfar WE. I can see a problem if we got stuck in the EoS league behind a couple of good Junior rivals, with decent clubs dropping down each year from the LL. Five, six years of that could be very dangerous. 

As I say, I think the risks of staying are much greater than the risks of going - but going does carry some risk, what we have now is pretty good, and I can understand why some are unconvinced.

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4 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Do you not seriously think some of these teams will be relegated out long before LR get anywhere near the LL? Bonnyton are nowhere near being licenced to get out the South yet. There's an awful lot of 'if my aunt had balls.." to this.

At least four of the seven clubs I mentioned are nowhere near being at risk of relegation in the foreseeable future, even in a more competitive league.

Yeah, there's an element of "if my Auntie had baws", but sometimes Aunties have baws and there are risks in change. I'm willing to bet that, within 10 years of the pyramid being settled, at least one of the big Junior clubs will have failed to adjust to it and will have fallen a long way. 

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8 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I agree, except for one thing. Our crowds do seem to fluctuate quite significantly depending on the opposition. If Whitburn were in the Superleague I think we'd get bigger crowds for those games than for, say Forfar WE. I can see a problem if we got stuck in the EoS league behind a couple of good Junior rivals, with decent clubs dropping down each year from the LL. Five, six years of that could be very dangerous. 

As I say, I think the risks of staying are much greater than the risks of going - but going does carry some risk, what we have now is pretty good, and I can understand why some are unconvinced.

What you have is pretty good for now  but you have to look at the future.  Will it be the case 3-5 years

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3 minutes ago, GordonS said:

At least four of the seven clubs I mentioned are nowhere near being at risk of relegation in the foreseeable future, even in a more competitive league.

Yeah, there's an element of "if my Auntie had baws", but sometimes Aunties have baws and there are risks in change. I'm willing to bet that, within 10 years of the pyramid being settled, at least one of the big Junior clubs will have failed to adjust to it and will have fallen a long way. 

Well that's life isn't it? Things come and go, adapt or be left behind. The non-league scene at the turn of the decade was a fractured mess. It's less so now. I agree that I don't see some of those clubs struggling immediately but it depends how quickly new blood comes in. And onfield performances are only a manager change or two away from a nosedive. There's no guarantee BSC and Cumbernauld Colts especially would continue to thrive if the West sides were clambering for promotion to LL. The future is impossible to predict other than things will change. If change is inevitable (and I think it is), the losers are those who resist it longest.

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I agree, except for one thing. Our crowds do seem to fluctuate quite significantly depending on the opposition. If Whitburn were in the Superleague I think we'd get bigger crowds for those games than for, say Forfar WE. I can see a problem if we got stuck in the EoS league behind a couple of good Junior rivals, with decent clubs dropping down each year from the LL. Five, six years of that could be very dangerous. 
As I say, I think the risks of staying are much greater than the risks of going - but going does carry some risk, what we have now is pretty good, and I can understand why some are unconvinced.


What we have now is finished....
Did you not see that kelty, bonnyrigg, camelon, Hill of Beath and now probably Boness and Penicuik are all away.

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3 hours ago, GordonS said:

I agree, except for one thing. Our crowds do seem to fluctuate quite significantly depending on the opposition. If Whitburn were in the Superleague I think we'd get bigger crowds for those games than for, say Forfar WE. I can see a problem if we got stuck in the EoS league behind a couple of good Junior rivals, with decent clubs dropping down each year from the LL. Five, six years of that could be very dangerous. 

As I say, I think the risks of staying are much greater than the risks of going - but going does carry some risk, what we have now is pretty good, and I can understand why some are unconvinced.

Totally agree that the bigger risk is staying.  What we have now is all but finished with the teams who are moving - Bo'ness would be the final nail.

Whitburn are a pale shadow of themselves as a result of staying whilst others around  left.   Playing them now would be just another fixture.  At least moving  opens up new challenges and new rivals.

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The expectations were too high for him. He couldn’t handle it.

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It's a no brainer for LR. We are one of the few liscenced teams. We could get to the playoffs without even winning the league.

A Lowland league in ten years excites me. I predict it'll be the best East and west junior teams with the rest slowly being relegated and replaced. Maybe one or two others will remain but it'll happen.

And only every two or three years will there be a promotion which sort of gives the glass ceiling in place for the juniors just now.

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14 hours ago, kefc said:

Spot On. As I put on a previous post In 3 years time the LL could more than likely have 1 or 2 current SPFL sides, top 6 clubs in the current LL, top 4 ex East region Juniors, top 4 ex West Juniors if as expected a WOS Feeder is formed. It will be a working pyramid with everyone finding their level and as each season passes the LL and the feeders will get stronger and we will wonder what all the fuss was about.

3 years time?  Promotion and relegation would have to change a lot then.  Is it not a not-even-guaranteed one up per season?

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3 minutes ago, th1stleandr0se said:

3 years time?  Promotion and relegation would have to change a lot then.  Is it not a not-even-guaranteed one up per season?

It’s been out on here  there will be 2 relegation spots likely to be voted through for next season from LL, how they work out the promotion places I’m no sure but it is more than likely to be worked out so 2 EOS clubs can be promoted due to there not being the clamour for the LL and the low number of teams Licenced in SOS.

As the EOS feeder and eventually WOS feeders become stronger the smart money would be on 3 down 3 up from LL.

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1 minute ago, kefc said:

It’s been out on here  there will be 2 relegation spots likely to be voted through for next season from LL, how they work out the promotion places I’m no sure but it is more than likely to be worked out so 2 EOS clubs can be promoted due to there not being the clamour for the LL and the low number of teams Licenced in SOS.

As the EOS feeder and eventually WOS feeders become stronger the smart money would be on 3 down 3 up from LL.

I was at the Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale v Kelty showdown at Saughton a couple of weeks back and it looked like you were going to miss out on promotion which would have been ridiculous in a season when you were demolishing the opposition week after week.  Yes, LTHV deserved promotion as well but with only one team up and Bonnyrigg et al joining the fray, you could have been trapped in that league for years while still dishing out hammerings most weeks.  That's not what a pyramid is about.

Open up the doors and let teams find their levels, even at an accelerated rate for a few seasons to address the imbalances in the leagues.

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1 minute ago, th1stleandr0se said:

I was at the Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale v Kelty showdown at Saughton a couple of weeks back and it looked like you were going to miss out on promotion which would have been ridiculous in a season when you were demolishing the opposition week after week.  Yes, LTHV deserved promotion as well but with only one team up and Bonnyrigg et al joining the fray, you could have been trapped in that league for years while still dishing out hammerings most weeks.  That's not what a pyramid is about.

Open up the doors and let teams find their levels, even at an accelerated rate for a few seasons to address the imbalances in the leagues.

What your describing I would strongly think will be fixed for this coming season.

We were fairly quick in our decision last year and caught the LL and EOS where rules couldn’t suddenly be changed and nor would we ever ask, their promotion/relegation rules/places were the 1 place play off due to only a few clubs being Licenced at tier 6.

Now there’s a massive change at tier 6 and I’d fully trust the guys running the LL and EOS to get it right for all clubs involved and also for the pyramid so it flows exactly like it should so clubs can find there level on merit.

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On 5/17/2018 at 00:06, GordonS said:

I can foresee a possible future in which we're in a league with Edusport Academy, Cumbernauld Colts, BSC "Glasgow", East Kilbride, Bonnytoun Thistle, Edinburgh Uni and Stirling Uni and getting much lower gates for those games than we do in the Superleague. I can see us taking far fewer supporters to those away games than we normally do, because with the possible exceptions of Edinburgh Uni and EK they'll have less atmosphere than a game up at that freezing ground at Carluke in January. Midweek. At 3am. In a blizzard.

In the realm of all possible outcomes, are you saying that this isn't even possible?

BTW, I was at a Bonnytoun Thistle cup match a couple of weeks ago. There were 12 spectators, and other than me I think they were all only there because they're friends and family of players. I have huge respect for what Bonnytoun do in developing young players but that's not something I want to pay to watch. 

Looking at the benefits and risks I think we ought to go too, and as soon as possible. But saying that there is NO REASON to favour staying is a bit of an insult to those who see it differently. I'm hoping for a more respectful debate than that. 

Out of interest, what do you think our crowds, home or away would be like with the following (Super)league? 

Linlithgow 
Broxburn 
Dundonald 
Lochee 
Broughty 
Sauchie 
Carnoustie 
Nitten 
Kennoway 
Forfar 
Fauldhouse 
Tayport 
Dunbar 
St Andrews 
Thornton 
Glenrothes 

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29 minutes ago, GlamourBaws said:

Out of interest, what do you think our crowds, home or away would be like with the following (Super)league? 

Linlithgow 
Broxburn 
Dundonald 
Lochee 
Broughty 
Sauchie 
Carnoustie 
Nitten 
Kennoway 
Forfar 
Fauldhouse 
Tayport 
Dunbar 
St Andrews 
Thornton 
Glenrothes 

Lochee, Nitten and Fauldhouse might bring 50 odd each - the rest 100 between them.

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43 minutes ago, FuzzyBear said:

Lochee, Nitten and Fauldhouse might bring 50 odd each - the rest 100 between them.

Not even as confident that Lochee, Nitten and Fauldhouse would even bring as much.

With the exception of Bo'ness, Bonnyrigg and Kirkintilloch  I don't think I have been at a game where Linlithgow didn't make up 80/90% of the crowd

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1 hour ago, GlamourBaws said:

Out of interest, what do you think our crowds, home or away would be like with the following (Super)league? 

Linlithgow 
Broxburn 
Dundonald 
Lochee 
Broughty 
Sauchie 
Carnoustie 
Nitten 
Kennoway 
Forfar 
Fauldhouse 
Tayport 
Dunbar 
St Andrews 
Thornton 
Glenrothes 

Plus all these lovely places where you could make a weekend of an away match:- Lochee,Broughty,Carnoustie,  Forfar,Tayport, Dunbar, St Andrews.  And in the winter time Broxburn, Dundonald, Sauchie, Nitten,  Kennoway, Fauldhouse, Thornton& Glenrothes.

Am sure you will take coach loads of fans to these away matches and help your hosts coffers.

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2 hours ago, GlamourBaws said:

Out of interest, what do you think our crowds, home or away would be like with the following (Super)league? 

Linlithgow 
Broxburn 
Dundonald 
Lochee 
Broughty 
Sauchie 
Carnoustie 
Nitten 
Kennoway 
Forfar 
Fauldhouse 
Tayport 
Dunbar 
St Andrews 
Thornton 
Glenrothes 

I would love to know just how many games GordonS has attended this season home and away and what he actually knows about these teams if he thinks this is a good product ! 

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20 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

Totally agree that the bigger risk is staying.  What we have now is all but finished with the teams who are moving - Bo'ness would be the final nail.

Whitburn are a pale shadow of themselves as a result of staying whilst others around  left.   Playing them now would be just another fixture.  At least moving  opens up new challenges and new rivals.

Yer bang on auld heid :thumsup2

Whitburn are a pale shadow of themselves,yeah they hav a reasonable home support and a good away support for a non-league side plus a lot of work has been done to Central Park.....,wee seated stand,new changing rooms,new section of terracing and new gates all on the main street side. On the other side though its non too pretty,the old covered enclosure is in urgent need of a revamp,its still got wooden sleepers as steps and rocky slabs to stand on!!

Away from the ground the committee are probably as close to an east ayrshire way of thinking than any other club in West Lothian,they dissied the super league when it was set-up and were left floundering about in the wee league for 5yrs after they realised they had boo booed !!

Now its deja vu once again,at least lithgae voted for the idea of  pyramid inclusion unlike whitburn :blink:.

I remember well growing up the great tussles between the rose and the burnie,they were always great competitive games played out in front of good crowds,sadly that is no longer the case and times are changing.

I think lithgae hav a great set-up,good fanbase and its a crackin toon tae visit for a couple of beers pre-match,hopefully one day they take their place in the pyramid and who knows how far they can go,would love to see a Livi v Lithgae derby one day :thumsup2.

 

Edited by Whitburn Vale

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