The St. Mirren FC 2023/24 thread

[Fife Saint]

2 hours ago, Molotov said:

A few years ago the invested £250,000 in the stock market.

It is possible that it’s that investment. But I’ve honestly no idea. 

No idea what the club invested the money in, but given the general financial market value over the last few years I’d have expected that £250K to have taken a negative hit rather than grown.

It’s entirely possible that the investment in the stock market no longer exists. Only question at the AGM will clarify this.

 

I heard it was exclusively Tesla stock they bought. Elon sold them a pup.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

Has Stewart Gilmour come out yet and explained what in the f**k he was talking about then when he went on his wee shit stirring adventure? I haven't looked, but I'm going to guess, no.

[smellthepaw]

15 hours ago, Div said:

Some stuff from the accounts;

The wage budget went up £734K in the 12 month period being reported

This is pretty much in line with what we were told (budgeting for 7th). Looking at who left and who has arrived since it's sort of hard to imagine that budget has reduced much, if any, this season.

We have "Listed Investments" of £294K

Anyone know what these are?

On the field we initially maintained the playing budget in line with the previous season but the signing of two players in the August Transfer Window and player bonuses took playing costs higher. A significant transfer deal collapsed on Deadline Day meaning that the increased playing costs could not be matched by the anticipated transfer income.

This is an interesting one. Assume this relates to the proposed transfer of McGrath to Hibs at the end of the January window and I assume the two inbound players it refers to were Ronan and Gogic?

Off the field there was a significant increase in the planned costs for the renovations at our Ralston Training Ground. This was largely caused by changes to the size and specifications of the new building.

I was at Ralston watching a youth game in September I think. I didn't notice anything particularly different about the set up. It still looked like a collection of Portakabins. Has that changed? Does anyone know exactly what it was we did at Ralston that cost so much?

What was the actual costings of Ralston renovations?

[Hendo]

13 minutes ago, smellthepaw said:

What was the actual costings of Ralston renovations?

I couldn't see any specific reference to this in the accounts, though could have missed it.

Also, we have increased our non playing staff by 37 - who are they, what do they do, why do we need that number of non playing staff when in 2021 we didn't?

 

[djchapsticks]

12 minutes ago, Hendo said:

I couldn't see any specific reference to this in the accounts, though could have missed it.

Also, we have increased our non playing staff by 37 - who are they, what do they do, why do we need that number of non playing staff when in 2021 we didn't?

 

This is the biggest takeaway for me.

The £700k wage increase is more than likely swallowed up by these 37 bodies. 37 folk easily adds £700k to a wage bill accounting for almost 50% of this loss.

So as you say, who are they and why have we doubled our staff in a year?

[Div]

I believe the vast increase in headcount under "Management and Administration" (which is effectively everyone at the club except the players) is due to a change in how the club pays it's many coaches/scouts etc...

If you remember back in December 2020 there was a story that broke about Saints investigating "financial irregularities"

I am fairly certain that the coaches/scouts etc were all previously paid on a contract basis and that this threw up some sort of tax/regulatory issues.

After the review these staff members, who were previously paid as self employed staff, moved to the payroll.

I'm 99% certain that is why the headcount has nearly doubled. This won't have made a massive difference to the costs, as I assume being paid as a contractor versus being paid through PAYE is much the same, with the addition of pension contributions and NI etc...

I'm also pretty much convinced that the vast majority of the £700K went on the playing budget as that is what we were told we were doing, last season and this, budgeting for 7th.

That's my concern here.

This seasons squad won't be carrying a lot less cost than last years as far as I can see. If anything it's increased!

The previous high earners, Brophy and Joe are still there, then we've added the likes of Gallagher, Gogic, O'Hara, Strain and Carson all of whom you'd expect to be on a fair few quid.

You can also factor in Keith Lasley who I think it's fair to imagine will be earning a good bit more than Tony Fitz was.

Taylor has obviously come in to replace Joe, who will move to Ireland later this month, but I'd definitely expect either Ethan or Baccus to also move on this month to help balance the books, cos whether gates are up or not that £1m in the bank ain't going to last very long if our wage bill is anywhere near £4m again.

 

 

[medals]

1 hour ago, Div said:

I believe the vast increase in headcount under "Management and Administration" (which is effectively everyone at the club except the players) is due to a change in how the club pays it's many coaches/scouts etc...

If you remember back in December 2020 there was a story that broke about Saints investigating "financial irregularities"

I am fairly certain that the coaches/scouts etc were all previously paid on a contract basis and that this threw up some sort of tax/regulatory issues.

After the review these staff members, who were previously paid as self employed staff, moved to the payroll.

I'm 99% certain that is why the headcount has nearly doubled. This won't have made a massive difference to the costs, as I assume being paid as a contractor versus being paid through PAYE is much the same, with the addition of pension contributions and NI etc...

I'm also pretty much convinced that the vast majority of the £700K went on the playing budget as that is what we were told we were doing, last season and this, budgeting for 7th.

That's my concern here.

This seasons squad won't be carrying a lot less cost than last years as far as I can see. If anything it's increased!

The previous high earners, Brophy and Joe are still there, then we've added the likes of Gallagher, Gogic, O'Hara, Strain and Carson all of whom you'd expect to be on a fair few quid.

You can also factor in Keith Lasley who I think it's fair to imagine will be earning a good bit more than Tony Fitz was.

Taylor has obviously come in to replace Joe, who will move to Ireland later this month, but I'd definitely expect either Ethan or Baccus to also move on this month to help balance the books, cos whether gates are up or not that £1m in the bank ain't going to last very long if our wage bill is anywhere near £4m again.

This is helpful - but

You have to take onto account all those who went off the wage bill too... of the top of my head (and maybe not on the right accounts yr)

Alnwick, McCarthy, Dennis, Erwin, McAlistair, JDH, Durmus, Finlayson, MacPherson, McGrath, Connolly, Obika, Quaner.

Next years accounts will have Power off the wage bill too

[Div]

25 minutes ago, medals said:

This is helpful - but

You have to take onto account all those who went off the wage bill too... of the top of my head (and maybe not on the right accounts yr)

Alnwick, McCarthy, Dennis, Erwin, McAlistair, JDH, Durmus, Finlayson, MacPherson, McGrath, Connolly, Obika, Quaner.

Next years accounts will have Power off the wage bill too

Yeah of course there were a number of departures but I think your crossing a couple of seasons there!

Last summer;

Ronan, Alnwick, Millar, Josh Jack, Power, McAllister, McCarthy, Erwin

We were told the budget last year was for a 7th placed finish and that this season was the same.

 

[djchapsticks]

30 minutes ago, Div said:

Yeah of course there were a number of departures but I think your crossing a couple of seasons there!

Last summer;

Ronan, Alnwick, Millar, Josh Jack, Power, McAllister, McCarthy, Erwin

We were told the budget last year was for a 7th placed finish and that this season was the same.

 

There will be other income factors not applicable this season as well that will be factored into next year's accounts remember.

Fag paper estimates but the revenue increase from 17% increase in ticket sales is about 350k already this season not factoring in the extra ST  sales and modest price hike that generates more revenue. That will ne even more by end of the season when accounts are submitted if attendances stay high.

Keanu Baccus getting in the WC squad also essentially pays his wages for free from signing up to now, even if it's only £50k from FIFA.

Extra £250k or so as well that was unexpected from two Scottish teams making the CL group stages.

 

[Div]

Yeah of course there are plenty positive things that can and will contribute to the finances.

It will be tough but given the season to date there's no reason why we can't go on and take a top six place, and although our draw in the cup is difficult it's at home and with our home form so good we have a decent chance of going through and maybe getting a wee cup run going.

Plenty to look forward to for sure, but who goes in the next three weeks could have a big bearing on how the second half of the season pans out.

[medals]

I know the headlines are we lost £1.6 million last season, but this has been the best season as a fan for some time.

And, despite all the claims of massive overspending for then, I suspect we are in a much better place now than we were last season in a number of ways.

Big deal is keeping up in the top half, with good results H & A. coupled with some good wheeling and dealing.

[DumbartonBud]

To me the concerning aspect is that the accounts don’t say, our budget was designed to make these losses as  we will reap the benefits in future years. 
They basically say this went wrong, that went wrong and that we didn’t anticipate them or take mitigating action during the year. We have now had to take action to bring it into balance and that will take a couple of years to get on an even keel. 
The idea that this is part of a grand plan is frankly nonsense. 
It isn’t a disaster but it certainly brings into question the monitoring of the budget, the decision making process, the appetite for risk and accountability. 

[Coventry Saint]

I'm comfortable with all this. It'll be fine.

[deadasdillinger]

9 hours ago, Hendo said:

I couldn't see any specific reference to this in the accounts, though could have missed it.

Also, we have increased our non playing staff by 37 - who are they, what do they do, why do we need that number of non playing staff when in 2021 we didn't?

 

Pleasing. 

Wouldn't rush in to any more Killie threads if I was you, would maybe concentrate on your own mob's woes.

[Coventry Saint]

16 minutes ago, deadasdillinger said:

Pleasing. 

Wouldn't rush in to any more Killie threads if I was you, would maybe concentrate on your own mob's woes.

Fan of club with fairly lengthy set of woes rushes into other team's thread to tell someone else not to rush into other teams' threads because their club has some woes.

Am I in the right ballpark?

[Hendo]

16 minutes ago, deadasdillinger said:

Pleasing. 

Wouldn't rush in to any more Killie threads if I was you, would maybe concentrate on your own mob's woes.

I think I'd rather have our business model of attracting good young talent from around the globe, paying slightly higher wages and then selling them on for profit, than the Killie way of signing aging injury prone journeymen. Shall we talk about whats the more successful strategy in May?

[AW saint]

Being realistic. We could wipe out the £1.6 million with the sale of Baccus

Robbo's method of bringing in players perhaps not on the radar of others but given a platform by us could be a winner. 

I am liking his management style

[deadasdillinger]

1 hour ago, Hendo said:

I think I'd rather have our business model

Yes, it's working well. I see you've posted a 

*checks notes* 

£1.6m loss.

 

1 hour ago, Coventry Saint said:

Fan of club with fairly lengthy set of woes rushes into other team's thread to tell someone else not to rush into other teams' threads because their club has some woes.

Am I in the right ballpark?

I'm guessing that was my first ever post in the St Mirren thread. 

Hendo probably has more posts in the Killie ones than I do.

Edited January 12, 2023 by deadasdillinger

[Torfason]

26 minutes ago, deadasdillinger said:

Hendo probably has more posts in the Killie ones than I do.

Why is that, do your parents switch off the wifi early on school nights?

[Div]

1 hour ago, AW saint said:

Being realistic. We could wipe out the £1.6 million with the sale of Baccus

Robbo's method of bringing in players perhaps not on the radar of others but given a platform by us could be a winner. 

I am liking his management style

The recruitment under Robinson and Foyle has been stellar. That is what makes me most relaxed about the financial situation. I have faith that we have assets we can cash in on if and when we need to, and similarly I'm confident that if and when that does happen that these two will have targets lined up already to replace them.

To be fair to Goodwin his hit rate was also very good, but Robbo's at the moment is off the charts.

1 question mark so far from all his signings and even that is really too early to call a mistake.