The St. Mirren FC 2022/23 thread

[elvis]

1 hour ago, Coventry Saint said:

Define 'really f**k us up'?

Dropping down the table never to be near top six again.

[elvis]

2 hours ago, thomas said:

Ffs what would it actually take for you to have a positive outlook regarding St Mirren?

Away from home A miracle on a biblical scale.

[GAD]

The guys demanding we budget for 11th place for the rest of time would be screaming blue murder and demanding sackings if we actually did finish in 11th place.

[McG]

4 hours ago, ZingaliMan said:

The whole point of SMISA was to keep the club in safe hands not just dodgy owners but a sound financial footing also. If there is a wee bit speculation going on that's fine if it's manageable.  If on the other hand more has been spent on a gamble of finishing on 7th place and the selling of player/players then that's a gamble to far for me.  The fact a former chairman who saved the club putting it on a sustainable financial footing wants to look at current finances can only be a good thing.  Given the money many hours spent trying to save the club we support Mr Gilmour at least deserves to see our financial state.  Nothing to see here then nothing to worry about.  

Mr Gilmour deserves to see our financial state?  

 

[tam the bud]

7 hours ago, elvis said:

The next five games could really f**k us up 4 away and the mighty Aberdeen in Paisley that could see zero points and a seriously bad goals against colum.

You could be right, but giving our home form and the Don's away form, I certainly wouldn't be betting on tbe Don's. 

[Doctor Sanchez]

On the subject of football finances, I see that's 10m Aberdeen have lost over 2 years.  THAT'S crisis territory.

 

I'm comfortable about our finances, budgeting for 7th or not. We've been working on 11th and punching higher than that over the last few years, so I'd expect that to continue. We budget for 7th and aim for higher. We should be looking up the table, not down. We're not getting religated with this squad and current manager. Shite like Dundee and Ross County have been top 6, so why the f**k aren't we expecting that too?

If one were to try and take a more strategic and balanced, look at things, instead of focusing on only the most recent information, there'd be far less worry about I think. Look at trends over the previous 5 and 10 years.

We're stable, have a manager that is delivering results (In Paisley anyway), he seem to be attracting attention from International and English domestic markets so must be doing something right, crowds and season tickets sales are up and we're letting less b(h)igots in to our place. Community engagement is good and the Family stand has never been busier. We're investing in youth and the engagement for kids with the outreach groups is really good, fan engagement before the games and even the throw a ball at the panda thing are engaging the support of tommorrow into the faith. Commercially things are, anecdotally at least, going well. Our away strip has outsold last years by a factor of 10, and the club shop always seems busy. 

We have as good a squad as I can remember, a player (should've been two imho) at the World Cup and as many internationally recognised players in the team as ever. 

I can't fucking wait to get back into the football. 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Doctor Sanchez

[Div]

3 hours ago, Doctor Sanchez said:

On the subject of football finances, I see that's 10m Aberdeen have lost over 2 years.  THAT'S crisis territory.

 

I'm comfortable about our finances, budgeting for 7th or not. We've been working on 11th and punching higher than that over the last few years, so I'd expect that to continue. We budget for 7th and aim for higher. We should be looking up the table, not down. We're not getting religated with this squad and current manager. Shite like Dundee and Ross County have been top 6, so why the f**k aren't we expecting that too?

If one were to try and take a more strategic and balanced, look at things, instead of focusing on only the most recent information, there'd be far less worry about I think. Look at trends over the previous 5 and 10 years.

We're stable, have a manager that is delivering results (In Paisley anyway), he seem to be attracting attention from International and English domestic markets so must be doing something right, crowds and season tickets sales are up and we're letting less b(h)igots in to our place. Community engagement is good and the Family stand has never been busier. We're investing in youth and the engagement for kids with the outreach groups is really good, fan engagement before the games and even the throw a ball at the panda thing are engaging the support of tommorrow into the faith. Commercially things are, anecdotally at least, going well. Our away strip has outsold last years by a factor of 10, and the club shop always seems busy. 

We have as good a squad as I can remember, a player (should've been two imho) at the World Cup and as many internationally recognised players in the team as ever. 

I can't fucking wait to get back into the football. 

 

There is plenty to be positive about the club right now, absolutely, and we should enjoy it.

Its still ok to look past the here and now and be concerned about the club burning through money in a way it hasn’t done since the late 80s.

The reckless spending of that era did not end well.

 

[medals]

This constant negative idea that 11th is good is madness...

Look at Livi... time we aimed higher... cudoss to the current management for having a go without risking our future or planning to just survive.. 

[Div]

22 minutes ago, medals said:

This constant negative idea that 11th is good is madness...

Look at Livi... time we aimed higher... cudoss to the current management for having a go without risking our future or planning to just survive.. 

Livingston have the smallest budget in the division. 

Setting a budget that you can afford does not mean you lack ambition.

[medals]

19 minutes ago, Div said:

Livingston have the smallest budget in the division. 

Setting a budget that you can afford does not mean you lack ambition.

Agreed... but for years we did lack ambition because of the past... time to get over that now surely instead of letting that dominate our thinking.

It is better to aim high and miss than to aim low and hit.”

 

The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.      Michelangelo

 

←

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by medals

[Saint Shug]

57 minutes ago, Div said:

There is plenty to be positive about the club right now, absolutely, and we should enjoy it.

Its still ok to look past the here and now and be concerned about the club burning through money in a way it hasn’t done since the late 80s.

The reckless spending of that era did not end well.

 

Surely, it depends on what the money has been spent on though. If it’s been spent on mitigating the costs of the lack of paying fans at games and other lost revenues mainly due to Covid then isn’t that what the loan was given for in the first place?
 

Even if the full lot wasn’t spent on Covid related problems, if it’s helped finance the upgrading of the clubs infrastructure ie; Ralston, then the fact we’ve been able to do this via an interest free loan is surely a good thing, no? 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Brief Keanu Baccus sighting in Qatar in this Aussie news report I came across earlier. He's No.26. Clip starts right where he appears.

 

 

[djchapsticks]

1 hour ago, Div said:

There is plenty to be positive about the club right now, absolutely, and we should enjoy it.

Its still ok to look past the here and now and be concerned about the club burning through money in a way it hasn’t done since the late 80s.

The reckless spending of that era did not end well.

 

There's no evidence whatsoever at this point that the money has been spent recklessly.

This is where I think most of us are very much in the 'wait and see' camp. It's not particularly helpful to summarily conclude that spending money in the bank = recklessness.

[Billy_Gunn]

6 hours ago, Div said:

Its still ok to look past the here and now and be concerned about the club burning through money in a way it hasn’t done since the late 80s.

The reckless spending of that era did not end well.

 

That’s all well and good but, we spent a fortune on astronomical wages for players that were going to  gain zero return in the 80’s. This money has been spent differently. Ralston improvements especially which were needed but not at the cost Tony signed off on. It’s an awful lot of money we’ve spent but, please don’t compare it to the 80’s where we were actually burning through money like it was going out of fashion. This is different.

[FTOF]

9 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

There's no evidence whatsoever at this point that the money has been spent recklessly.

This is where I think most of us are very much in the 'wait and see' camp. It's not particularly helpful to summarily conclude that spending money in the bank = recklessness.

Absolutely.

I suspect that we've used the money in a similar manner to most clubs that took up the option of the loan. i.e. to use it to support the infra structure of the club in the absence of certain income streams due to Covid.

Of course, £1.7 million is a lot of money. However, other club's loans were considerably more. It would be interesting to see if they have spent their money or whether they are keeping it for a "rainy day". 

[Div]

38 minutes ago, FTOF said:

Absolutely.

I suspect that we've used the money in a similar manner to most clubs that took up the option of the loan. i.e. to use it to support the infra structure of the club in the absence of certain income streams due to Covid.

Of course, £1.7 million is a lot of money. However, other club's loans were considerably more. It would be interesting to see if they have spent their money or whether they are keeping it for a "rainy day". 

There will have been some lingering effects from COVID for sure but we're talking the period May 2021 to May 2022 here, the impact of COVID on day to day revenue was not massive during that period. We've gone from a cash position of £2.8m in May 2021 to £1m in May 2022 (so we've been told).

I cannot compute that we've spent the guts of of that on Ralston. It's still a collection of portakabins, and the astro pitch was renewed not that long ago (helped with a chunk of SMiSA money if I recall right). The accounts will tell us for sure but I struggle to see what we've spent so much on there given it cost less than a million to set the entire thing up in the first place?

As I said the other day, I've no problem with the club taking a punt on the playing budget last May when we had £2.8m in the bank. I think that was fair enough as we came through the COVID season in far better shape than I think anyone expected, thanks mainly to the two great cup runs, and the likes of the Magennis transfer fee.

My concern is that we're still throwing money at it this season. Yes we still have a million in the bank but we do still need to repay the loan so that's £170K a season that we need to budget for, and I don't think it's a bad thing to keep some money in the bank. We don't NEED to spend every single penny we have even though clubs seem to operate on that basis!

To be clear budgeting to finish 7th means we're spending this season based on projected prize money of £1.8m coming in the door. Maybe it's still worth a punt and the gamble might well pay off. We might even finish higher than 7th, it's far from impossible, but nobody can tell me it's not equally possible we might finish lower than 7th and for each place we do finish lower we would take a hit for c£150K.

Improved attendances, a good cup run, the Baccus world cup money, the insurance pay out for the Dome are all positive outcomes for the finances too of course, but I still worry that we're spending beyond our means.

Maybe I'm still too raw from the last time but it makes me nervous!

I'll shut up about it now and eagerly await the accounts.

[ford prefect]

To me it sounds like we need to hope we have some money for adult pampers left going with the soiling on here. Has Elvis infected everyone? 

 

[Arch Stanton]

20 minutes ago, Div said:

...we do still need to repay the loan so that's £170K a season that we need to budget for...

A £1.7m loan repaid over 20 years is £85k per year.

[medals]

29 minutes ago, Div said:

There will have been some lingering effects from COVID for sure but we're talking the period May 2021 to May 2022 here, the impact of COVID on day to day revenue was not massive during that period. We've gone from a cash position of £2.8m in May 2021 to £1m in May 2022 (so we've been told).

I cannot compute that we've spent the guts of of that on Ralston. It's still a collection of portakabins, and the astro pitch was renewed not that long ago (helped with a chunk of SMiSA money if I recall right). The accounts will tell us for sure but I struggle to see what we've spent so much on there given it cost less than a million to set the entire thing up in the first place?

As I said the other day, I've no problem with the club taking a punt on the playing budget last May when we had £2.8m in the bank. I think that was fair enough as we came through the COVID season in far better shape than I think anyone expected, thanks mainly to the two great cup runs, and the likes of the Magennis transfer fee.

My concern is that we're still throwing money at it this season. Yes we still have a million in the bank but we do still need to repay the loan so that's £170K a season that we need to budget for, and I don't think it's a bad thing to keep some money in the bank. We don't NEED to spend every single penny we have even though clubs seem to operate on that basis!

To be clear budgeting to finish 7th means we're spending this season based on projected prize money of £1.8m coming in the door. Maybe it's still worth a punt and the gamble might well pay off. We might even finish higher than 7th, it's far from impossible, but nobody can tell me it's not equally possible we might finish lower than 7th and for each place we do finish lower we would take a hit for c£150K.

Improved attendances, a good cup run, the Baccus world cup money, the insurance pay out for the Dome are all positive outcomes for the finances too of course, but I still worry that we're spending beyond our means.

Maybe I'm still too raw from the last time but it makes me nervous!

I'll shut up about it now and eagerly await the accounts.

It's good to hear both sides in this debate. It'll also be good to see/hear the facts.

Where it goes, we all hope leads to more positives like increased crowds and actually winning more games.

Sort away form and retain home form and we will be top 6 or 7

Edited November 20, 2022 by medals

[Div]

19 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

A £1.7m loan repaid over 20 years is £85k per year.

Ah, I thought it was over 10 years, my bad.