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The St. Mirren FC 2022/23 thread


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1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

That is not the reason for me holding these views about convicted criminals.

You have to have the ability to put victims of serious crime first, second and last.

Too many people do the bare minimum on that score and then pour support (and public money) into getting the criminal back on their feet.

The alternative is to pour money into keeping them incarcerated and conditioned onto believing that once a criminal, always a criminal. Not sure how that benefits anyone.

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4 minutes ago, Drooper said:

The alternative is to pour money into keeping them incarcerated and conditioned onto believing that once a criminal, always a criminal. Not sure how that benefits anyone.

You are not sure how keeping serious convicted criminals locked up helps anyone?

Really?

Fair enough, if that is your view then it's your view.

I have to say though that keeping a guy who hit someone with a baseball bat locked up to guarantee he can't repeat that seems like a benefit to general society to me.

Edited by oaksoft
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22 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

We could have signed a convicted child rapist and we'd still have people supporting signing him as long as he could score a few goals.

When it comes to kicking a football, some people have no moral compass or empathy with victims of serious crime - as long as it wasn't their family member.

BTW, Gallagher could easily have killed that person. Clubbing someone with a bat can have that effect. Still, he's better than the defenders we have eh....?

I'd be amazed if even one of our supporters would get behind a child rapist.

I do agree that lack of a moral compass of our football clubs has been a significant issue. However, perhaps things are slowly changing - the Goodwillie situation, response to Ryan Giggs and Mason Greenwood are perhaps examples - yet there are still glaring inconsistencies. Harry Paton is facing similar charges to Greenwood yet played most of last season for Ross County without comment. Goodwillie had been playing for Clyde and made captain by Danny Lennon with no fuss, wrongly in my opinion. It is this inconsistency that is baffling.

Regarding Gallagher, there is a powerful argument for rehabilitation- the offence occurred 7 years ago with no repetition, he has served his sentence and has played for three clubs and been capped by Scotland since then. My only issue is interviews I have seen from him after the offence and sentence spoke of the impact on him and his family, but not on the victim - though I could have missed any statements of remorse from him.

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4 minutes ago, Hendo said:

I'd be amazed if even one of our supporters would get behind a child rapist.

I do agree that lack of a moral compass of our football clubs has been a significant issue. However, perhaps things are slowly changing - the Goodwillie situation, response to Ryan Giggs and Mason Greenwood are perhaps examples - yet there are still glaring inconsistencies. Harry Paton is facing similar charges to Greenwood yet played most of last season for Ross County without comment. Goodwillie had been playing for Clyde and made captain by Danny Lennon with no fuss, wrongly in my opinion. It is this inconsistency that is baffling.

Regarding Gallagher, there is a powerful argument for rehabilitation- the offence occurred 7 years ago with no repetition, he has served his sentence and has played for three clubs and been capped by Scotland since then. My only issue is interviews I have seen from him after the offence and sentence spoke of the impact on him and his family, but not on the victim - though I could have missed any statements of remorse from him.

I disagree. We've come close enough to it to know for certain that there would be some supporters who would overlook it.

Goodwillie (rape) and Craig Thomson (Edinburgh City - child porn offences) spring immediately to mind.

The inconsistency occurs because when it comes to football, people tend to lose their moral compasses when someone is capable of scoring a goal.

Anyway, more than happy to be in a minority of one on this subject. How to deal with convicted criminals is one of the things my position is completely fixed on.

Edited by oaksoft
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2 hours ago, capt_oats said:

 but the St Mirren fans going to bat for him on Twitter saying how great he was for Motherwell are definitely being selective on his time with us.

Ancient Rome Reaction GIF by Domina Series

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1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

I disagree. We've come close enough to it to know for certain that there would be some supporters who would overlook it.

Goodwillie (rape) and Craig Thomson (Edinburgh City - child porn offences) spring immediately to mind.

You know for certain that St Mirren could sign a convicted child rapist, and some supporters wouldn’t care, as long as he scored some goals.

You really are something else. To make that statement not once, but twice.

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1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

You are not sure how keeping serious convicted criminals locked up helps anyone?

Really?

Fair enough, if that is your view then it's your view.

You sound like you'd be happy going down the American route- lock up everyone no matter the offense and throw away the key.

I'm not suggesting for one minute Declan's offence was trivial, but you really need to look at the bigger picture. 

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2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You are not sure how keeping serious convicted criminals locked up helps anyone?

Really?

Fair enough, if that is your view then it's your view.

I have to say though that keeping a guy who hit someone with a baseball bat locked up to guarantee he can't repeat that seems like a benefit to general society to me.

That argument only stacks up if you genuinely believe that convicted offenders cannot be rehabilitated, as you suggested earlier. Such a cotention has no basis in fact.

Anyway, Gallagher has signed, and I imagine we all have our views on whether or not it was a prudent acquisition by the club. I'm not entirely comfortable with it, to be honest, but I strongly believe in the concept of rehabilitation (it is demonstrably possible and often fully achieved), so hope it applies in his case.

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6 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

You know for certain that St Mirren could sign a convicted child rapist, and some supporters wouldn’t care, as long as he scored some goals.

You really are something else. To make that statement not once, but twice.

Yes. I'm absolutely convinced of that and there's plenty of evidence historically from similar enough cases to suggest that holding that view is not unreasonable.

Does that make it 3 times? Are you keeping score Poz?

Edited by oaksoft
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Just now, Drooper said:

That argument only stacks up if you genuinely believe that convicted offenders cannot be rehabilitated, as you suggested earlier. Such a cotention has no basis in fact.

Anyway, Gallagher has signed, and I imagine we all have our views on whether or not it was a prudent acquisition by the club. I'm not entirely comfortable with it, to be honest, but I strongly believe in the concept of rehabilitation (it is demonstrably possible and often fully achieved), so hope it applies in his case.

Not necessarily.

As you say, we've signed him and there's f**k all I can do about it so probably best left there. Not a glorious day in our history though. Honestly thought we were a better club than that.

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6 minutes ago, Munoz said:

You sound like you'd be happy going down the American route- lock up everyone no matter the offense and throw away the key.

I'm not suggesting for one minute Declan's offence was trivial, but you really need to look at the bigger picture. 

There's a bigger picture than considering the victims of serious crime and putting their needs in front of the criminal?

You'll never convince me of that I'm afraid.

Anyway, as I said above, it's done and there's f**k all I can do about it so best to move on.

Edited by oaksoft
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39 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

We could have signed a convicted child rapist and we'd still have people supporting signing him as long as he could score a few goals.

Bollocks. Absolute bollocks.

There is a line to be drawn here between someone who has a violent past such as Gallagher, McGowan, Broadfoot and even a history of non-violent crime such as Charlie Adam (drink driving) and for the older Saints fans Barry Lavety and John Boyd compared with fucking rapists and child abusers.

Where that line is, is not for me to decide but FFS, the furore over Griffiths potentially signing back in January and the unrest that caused in about 99% of our support shows that it wouldn't be tolerated and Griffiths wasn't even convicted of anything.

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4 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

Bollocks. Absolute bollocks.

There is a line to be drawn here between someone who has a violent past such as Gallagher, McGowan, Broadfoot and even a history of non-violent crime such as Charlie Adam (drink driving) and for the older Saints fans Barry Lavety and John Boyd compared with fucking rapists and child abusers.

Where that line is, is not for me to decide but FFS, the furore over Griffiths potentially signing back in January and the unrest that caused in about 99% of our support shows that it wouldn't be tolerated and Griffiths wasn't even convicted of anything.

Two things.

Firstly even if you are right, that leaves 1%.

Secondly, are you seriously suggesting that St Mirren fans have a stronger moral compass than Falkirk and Clyde fans?

Edited by oaksoft
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On 25/06/2022 at 09:04, RandomGuy. said:

McCart is away to Rotherham. 

Carey was hawking himself around Scottish clubs in January so every chance he's at it again this Summer.

No one would be stupid enough to sign him now though, would they? Oh.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/20236609.graham-carey-set-return-scotland-st-johnstone-exit-cska-sofia/

Loved him with us and he was never the most mobile of players so age catching up with him shouldn't really be an issue

Edited by Stu
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45 minutes ago, Hendo said:

I'd be amazed if even one of our supporters would get behind a child rapist.

I do agree that lack of a moral compass of our football clubs has been a significant issue. However, perhaps things are slowly changing - the Goodwillie situation, response to Ryan Giggs and Mason Greenwood are perhaps examples - yet there are still glaring inconsistencies. Harry Paton is facing similar charges to Greenwood yet played most of last season for Ross County without comment. Goodwillie had been playing for Clyde and made captain by Danny Lennon with no fuss, wrongly in my opinion. It is this inconsistency that is baffling.

Regarding Gallagher, there is a powerful argument for rehabilitation- the offence occurred 7 years ago with no repetition, he has served his sentence and has played for three clubs and been capped by Scotland since then. My only issue is interviews I have seen from him after the offence and sentence spoke of the impact on him and his family, but not on the victim - though I could have missed any statements of remorse from him.

Fucking hell, where’s the real Hendo went?

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5 hours ago, capt_oats said:

6 former players (Carson, Tait, Dunne, O'Hara, Main and now Gallagher) and 4 former staff (Lasley, Robinson, O'Carroll and Foyle).

It’s feckin mental. If you guys can’t come up with some banners or songs this season to make a joke of this then I’ll be disappointed.

It actually adds a bit of interest to the games between our clubs this season. Bring it on.

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12 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

It’s feckin mental. If you guys can’t come up with some banners or songs this season to make a joke of this then I’ll be disappointed.

It actually adds a bit of interest to the games between our clubs this season. Bring it on.

Not one of these players started their careers at Motherwell, just passed through. 

I fail to see the big deal. 

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5 hours ago, houston_bud said:

Hibs and ex St Mirren players must be close.

I think in the January of the 2020/21 season Hibs had 6 former Saints (P McGinn, S McGinn, Magennis, Mallan, McGregor and Samson (who was registered as a player for a bit)) in their squad. 

 

Signed a few more since then too. 

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21 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

Fucking hell, where’s the real Hendo went?

Still here and still consistent. I fully support rehabilitation, my issue is where people don't take responsibility for past actions. I've not seen any interviews from Gallagher which expresses remorse and sympathy with his victim, which makes me uncomfortable with the signing- but I am willing to acknowledge this may have happened and I missed it. Martindale to his credit took responsibility, Charlie Adams has done likewise for his drink driving. Rehabilitation is possible and desirable, but there needs to be an acknowledgement of past mistakes and their impact for it to be possible.

 

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  • djchapsticks changed the title to The St. Mirren FC 2022/23 thread

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