The St. Mirren FC 2023/24 thread

[FTOF]

2 hours ago, IrishBhoy said:

Is that true though? The last game of the season had an attendance of 4500, with a couple of hundred Livingston fans. The Dundee game, which had a healthier away support, was 5500. I’ve been going to St Mirren games for a good few years now and there has always been that core home support of ~4000, maybe slightly less during the years in the Championship. It could be an optical illusion due to the colours of the seats, but I’ve been at games sitting in the West Stand where I’ve been certain the stadium is over 75% full, and the attendance still gets announced as 4000/5000 odd. 
 

If we give the OF the normal away end, allow family stand season ticket holders to have their usual seat and try and encourage a larger than usual home support at OF games, then I can’t see the difference in income being anything more than negligible. The only problem with that being that the majority of our games against the OF will be midday kick offs, often on a Sunday and live on Sky Sports. I don’t see any harm in the club trialling it for the coming season, and if there isn’t a noticeable difference in the size of the home support, resorting back to two stands the following season. 

It's not true for me.

The main reason that I don't attend these games, is because the tactics we employ against them seem to have us beaten even before we've stepped onto the park. I don't enjoy watching these games at all.

I got fed up leaving early as we were getting pumped 3 or 4 zip, before HT. If I choose to watch it at home, at least I can switch it off.

I do despise their fan's presence, but for me it doesn't make any difference whether it's one or two stands. It's still an infestation.

[Buddiesaint]

42 minutes ago, FTOF said:

......I do despise their fan's presence, but for me it doesn't make any difference whether it's one or two stands. It's still an infestation.

This brings up a good point. Do people really believe the atmosphere/behaviour of the away fans will be any better just because there's less of them?

Sure, it might prevent you hearing sectarian singing in stereo, but it's just as awful in mono. Are parents really gonna fill the family stand with all that goes on when they come into town?

I'm not against giving them less, but I don't think it's a given that we'll fill the stands ourselves and that the fan experience will be much if at all better as a result on those match days.

I'd be interested in hearing what steps will be going in to better stewarding/policing, better segregation pre and post match to prevent violence and flare ups, better punishments for stadium damage etc. Without any of this, I honestly think we're maybe missing the point.

[Doctor Sanchez]

Ref the ticket allocations, I'd be inclined to be looking at the league as a whole.  Dundee didn't bring more than a few hundred to our place.  I've been at games where Killy have packed out their stand, in fact I think for a while the record attendance was a Killy game (might still be, I dunno...).  The delta in the numbers from not selling the TF stand to the OF will be partially offset from the increase of the average away fans from the Ayrshire pies being back.  

 

TBF, if the crowd numbers are the be all and end all then we should be looking closer to home than trying to milk the OF away fans. Playing an attacking football style, getting results on the pitch, a more coherent social media strategy and the community engagement will grow the fanbase.  Get more Paisley Panda suits made and pump them out round schools. We're okay at some of these things, perhaps room for improvement in others. But winning football matches will bring in more fans. 

[IrishBhoy]

50 minutes ago, FTOF said:

It's not true for me.

The main reason that I don't attend these games, is because the tactics we employ against them seem to have us beaten even before we've stepped onto the park. I don't enjoy watching these games at all.

I got fed up leaving early as we were getting pumped 3 or 4 zip, before HT. If I choose to watch it at home, at least I can switch it off.

I do despise their fan's presence, but for me it doesn't make any difference whether it's one or two stands. It's still an infestation.

Can’t really argue with that. Did Robinson not have quite a good record of going up against the OF with Motherwell though? I could be wrong but I can remember a game at Hampden where they went toe to toe with Rangers and bodied them 2-0. 
 

It’s always a difficult balance against the OF. If you set up to have a go at them and lose an early goal you can be on the end of a 5 or 6 nil score line and everyone says it was a mistake. If you sit with 10 men behind the ball and lose 1-0 in the 85th minute everyone says you might have won if you had a go. Any game against the OF I have the same feeling - get to 0-0 at half time and take it from there. Easier said than done obviously, and the gulf in finances means 9 times out of 10 they are going to come out on top. 
 

The issue with the 2 stands is more a matter of principle for me. I don’t think we lose any advantage on the pitch by giving them 2 stands, but we do lose a bit of pride by admitting that we are unable to fill the seats with our own fans, and have OF fans falling over each other trying to get a ticket. It’s sad to say but they could probably sell out both stands two or three times over if they had the option. Livingston basically hand over the stadium to them when they play and It doesn’t sit well with me. Might look good on the balance sheets but it doesn’t look good at the game. 

[FTOF]

On another matter.

It beggars belief that this guy isn't in the Scotland squad, given some of the diddies, like Lewis Ferguson, in the current squad.

 

[Buddiesaint]

Cracking goal from Morgan. The American commentary always makes me laugh though. Hyper excited at any tiny little thing.

The smoke display at each end when there's a goal is kinda cool in my opinion though  

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, IrishBhoy said:

Can’t really argue with that. Did Robinson not have quite a good record of going up against the OF with Motherwell though? I could be wrong but I can remember a game at Hampden where they went toe to toe with Rangers and bodied them 2-0. 

For a very limited period yes. He was unbeaten at home against Brendan Rodgers' Celtic team - didn't *win* any of them but didn't lose.

Things went sideways after we were scudded 7-1 at Ibrox. Then he got the notion in his head that he wanted to try and play football against them because I've a feeling he was getting fed up with the "hammer throwers" tag.

After having been competitive early on he just completely lost the run of himself.

Fwiw January 19 was when we switched from the 352 to the 433

His record against the OF was P: 20 W 1 D 6 L 13 F 18 A 68 GD -50

01/04/17 - Rangers 1 - 1 Motherwell (X)
06/08/17 - Motherwell 1 - 2 Rangers (L)
22/09/17 - Rangers 0 - 2 Motherwell (W) - (LC Semi Final)
26/11/17 - Motherwell 0 - 2 Celtic (L) - (LC Final)
29/11/17 - Motherwell 1 - 1 Celtic (X)
29/11/17 - Celtic 5 - 1 Motherwell (L)
27/12/17 - Rangers 2 - 0 Motherwell (L)
18/03/18 - Motherwell 0 - 0 Celtic (X)
31/03/18 - Motherwell 2 - 2 Rangers (X)
19/05/18 - Celtic 2 - 0 Motherwell (L) - (SC Final)
25/08/18 - Motherwell 3 - 3 Rangers (X)
11/11/18 - Rangers 7 - 1 Motherwell (L)
05/12/18 - Motherwell 1 - 1 Celtic (X)
19/12/18 - Celtic 3 - 0 Motherwell (L)
24/02/19 - Celtic 4 - 1 Motherwell (L)
07/04/19 - Motherwell 0 - 3 Rangers (L)
10/08/19 - Motherwell 2 - 5 Celtic (L)
27/10/19 - Rangers 2 - 1 Motherwell (L)
10/11/19 - Celtic 2 - 0 Motherwell (L)
15/12/19 - Motherwell 0 - 2 Rangers (L)
05/02/20 - Motherwell 0 - 4 Celtic (L) 
30/08/20 - Celtic 3 - 0 Motherwell (L)
27/09/20 - Motherwell 1 - 5 Rangers (L)
09/11/20 - Motherwell 1 - 4 Celtic (L)
19/12/20 - Rangers 3 - 1 Motherwell (L)

Edited May 29, 2022 by capt_oats

[glenburn bud]

There’s a widespread apathy amongst our supporters when playing the old firm teams at our place. 

Its been building for a number of years, the gulf in resources and the harsh realities of not being able to compete with teams who pay more to one player than we spend  on our entire budget.

Factor in giving up half the stadium and folk just think it’s not worth the effort. 

[NorthBank]

I stopped going to Away OF matches many years ago due to sectarianism, scummy behaviour and threats of violence. However I always attended the Home games except the last one against Newco. The previous game against them the announcer stated over the tannoy that religious and racial misbehaviour would not be tolerated. 15 mins in and we were treated with a chorus of up to our knees in ****** blood with no further comments from the announcer. The Club, like every other Club, have policies stating sectarianism won't be tolerated then they do nothing when it happens. I wrote to the SLO to ask why no further announcements were made condemning the sectarian singing and no action taken. The reply was they would take it up with the Club. No further response came. Until Clubs enforce their own policies and actually do something then the problem continues. If fans had been chanting about race or sexuality there would have been an uproar from Clubs, players and media.  Sectarianism and there is silence. Get it sorted.

Edited May 29, 2022 by NorthBank

[Dirty Sanchez]

I've watched most of the games Morgan has played over there, and he usually strolls it.

He's moved to decent team now as well in NYRB. Phil Neville's Miami team were fkn torture to watch and Morgan was contributing more than their marqee signings were.

[IrishBhoy]

3 minutes ago, NorthBank said:

I stopped going to Away OF matches many years ago due to sectarianism, scummy behaviour and threats of violence. However I always attended the Home games except the last one against Newco. The previous game against them the announcer stated over the tannoy that religious and racial misbehaviour would not be tolerated. 15 mins in and we were treated with a chorus of up to our knees in ****** blood with no further comments from the announcer. The Club, like every other Club, have policies stating sectarianism won't be tolerated then they do nothing when it happens. I wrote to the SLO to ask why no further announcements were made condemning the sectarian singing and no action taken. The reply was they would take it up with the Club. No further response came. Until Clubs enforce their own policies and actually do something then the problem continues. If fans had been chanting about race or sexuality there would have been an uproar from Clubs, players and media.  Sectarianism and there is silence. Get it sorted.

Did you see the 12 year old boy singing ‘up to our knees in ****** blood’ live on BT Sport after Rangers scored in the Europa League final? It’s sad to say but it’s not going to be eradicated in our lifetime, helped along as you say, by an almost downright refusal by either the police or footballing authorities to stamp it out. That young boy would think nothing of singing those lyrics, and if society is unfortunate enough for him to breed, his children will think nothing of singing those words. And on and on we go until…

[sergie's no1 fan]

20 minutes ago, Dirty Sanchez said:

I've watched most of the games Morgan has played over there, and he usually strolls it.

He's moved to decent team now as well in NYRB. Phil Neville's Miami team were fkn torture to watch and Morgan was contributing more than their marqee signings were.

He might get a move to one of RB's European teams soon enough if he keeps that up. More likely the Austrian one but still.

I do think Celtic papped him too quick, given that in the previous season they barely had any wingers at all. Seemed to be chased from their because Lennon started him up front on his own in that cup final against Rangers.

[Kempes]

At the last home game against Rangers I was in the main stand. The usual warnings were given regarding the behaviour of fans. When they started the sectarian singing, I asked the nearest member of the Police, who happened to be a senior female Police officer, if their songs were acceptable. She was wearing a headset and said she couldn’t hear the singing, although she was nearer them than me. She said it was for the Police commander in the away fans stand to determine if any action should be taken….obviously nothing happened. It might be seen as a difficult call for the Police to take action against the bigots, but why ‘warn’ them about their sectarian behaviour and then ignore it. Seems to me that the away teams should automatically be awarded the three points by the SPFL.

[Paxo]

Can't believe there's any resistance at all to refusing the Old Firm both ends from St Mirren fans. Why would you want to simultaneously reduce your chances of getting a result at home and piss off a good number of your home support to trouser an extra few tens of thousands of pounds a season?

Killie packed that guff in years ago and I can safely say there would be very few (if any tbh) who would want to return to that horror show.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Paxo

[IrishBhoy]

54 minutes ago, Paxo said:

Can't believe there's any resistance at all to refusing the Old Firm both ends from St Mirren fans. Why would you want to simultaneously reduce your chances of getting a result at home and piss off a good number of your home support to trouser an extra few tens of thousands of pounds a season?

Killie packed that guff in years ago and I can safely say there would be very few (if any tbh) who would want to return to that horror show.

For clubs the size of St Mirren, Livingston, St Johnstone etc, I think it’s seen by the board members as a cut and dried opportunity to pull in a 6 figure sum. A game against a team with many multiple times the finances who you are not expected to beat, a home support who aren’t particularly enthused by the game (which is usually on TV anyway), and 1500 odd extra fans paying £30 a go. I can completely understand why they do it from a financial perspective, but can also understand why long suffering home supporters can’t stand the sight of it, with all the anti social behaviour and sectarian chants that usually accompany them. 

[andrewh]

1 hour ago, IrishBhoy said:

Did you see the 12 year old boy singing ‘up to our knees in ****** blood’ live on BT Sport after Rangers scored in the Europa League final? It’s sad to say but it’s not going to be eradicated in our lifetime, helped along as you say, by an almost downright refusal by either the police or footballing authorities to stamp it out. That young boy would think nothing of singing those lyrics, and if society is unfortunate enough for him to breed, his children will think nothing of singing those words. And on and on we go until…

Meanwhile at Hibs three stewards pounced on me demanding that I open my Hovis bread wrapper so they could see what was inside. Oddly enough it was a sandwich. I called them idiots and was warned by the head idiot that I might not get in to see the game.

[andrewh]

I got an email about a survey on the OF situation. I support the other Saints. What will I answer?

[Kempes]

Provide your bank details and tell them you are happy to make up any deficit, as a gesture of solidarity against the bigots.

[Paxo]

4 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said:

For clubs the size of St Mirren, Livingston, St Johnstone etc, I think it’s seen by the board members as a cut and dried opportunity to pull in a 6 figure sum. A game against a team with many multiple times the finances who you are not expected to beat, a home support who aren’t particularly enthused by the game (which is usually on TV anyway), and 1500 odd extra fans paying £30 a go. I can completely understand why they do it from a financial perspective, but can also understand why long suffering home supporters can’t stand the sight of it, with all the anti social behaviour and sectarian chants that usually accompany them. 

I still really can't understand from a purely financial perspective tbh. £30 a ticket (less the VAT)for every additional attendee, but reduced home support, more overhead costs to control the great unwashed, no ability to sell full price season tickets for one stand - surely the extra wedge they pick up is miniscule as a proportion of their overall revenue? Not to mention that putting much of the fanbase's nose out of joint on a fundamental level 4 times a season isn't really a very smart business strategy if the aim is to grow the support.

Leaving all of that to one side for a moment though, the most important thing to my mind is the self respect that comes with not cheaply whoring out the club so grievously. Hard to put a price on that obviously, but personally I would rather Killie had a lower playing budget and finished further down the table than bent over for the very clubs that are strangling the life out of the game so much that this becomes an attractive option for the smaller clubs in the first place.

[SuperSaints1877]

1 hour ago, Paxo said:

Can't believe there's any resistance at all to refusing the Old Firm both ends from St Mirren fans. Why would you want to simultaneously reduce your chances of getting a result at home and piss off a good number of your home support to trouser an extra few tens of thousands of pounds a season?

Killie packed that guff in years ago and I can safely say there would be very few (if any tbh) who would want to return to that horror show.

Did you not one end of season game give up 3 stands to Sevco? I’m sure you used to regularly give up 2 stands to the bigot brothers.

You and Motherwell have a major advantage over St Mirren in that you each have a massive away stand which is probably twice the size of our 2 stand system.

Personally I’d rather just ban the cnuts.

Edited May 29, 2022 by SuperSaints1877