The St. Mirren FC 2023/24 thread

[Doctor Sanchez]

19 hours ago, pozbaird said:

I genuinely haven’t spoken to one St Mirren fan who thinks anything other than Jim has made a mistake taking the Aberdeen job. Aberdeen as they are in 2022. Scottish football as it is in 2022 - his job with St Mirren was the closest thing to secure that you could reasonably expect to find. Even if we were relegated, the likelihood is we would have stuck by him as the man to regroup and lead us back up. I wish Jim and indeed Aberdeen, absolutely no ill will, I just think he has made a big mistake. Only time will tell of course.

Been thinking about this point a fair bit (Got covid, stuck at work down south, no telly, bored out my tiny mind). If Goodwin stayed with us, continued on with the reasonable momentum we had and we slugged across the line to finish 6th by the hairs on his beautiful chinny chin chin, he would have been arguably the most successful Saints Manager in living memory. 

What would he have to do to become the equivalent at Aberdeen? 

That hypothetical success, if he stayed, would have been achievable as the board has provided stability and within the boundaries of financial prudence and backed him. 

Realistically, what is Dave Cormack and the Aberdeen fans using as a metric for success? Imagine next season Goodwin is given the financial backing and spends big. Would third and a cup be seen as a greater achievement with Aberdeen, than sixth with an unfashionable provincial team like ourselves*. 

I understand that his wages will have increased by a factor of many, but that's short term. His earning potential would have been significantly greater by providing a greater comparable level of success with us. I assume his route to where he sees himself is down South for a gig or two then the Ireland job. Seems further away now. Strikes me even more as a strange decision.

AS @pozbairdhas mentioned above, I bare JG no malace at all, and i wish him every success when (Now if, I suppose)  he gets his move South. The more I reflect on the last few weeks, the more questionable a decision is seems to be.  

 

 

 

 

* But still currently above Aberdeen with a game in hand against a bottom of the table, rank Dundee side.

[pozbaird]

38 minutes ago, Doctor Sanchez said:

Been thinking about this point a fair bit (Got covid, stuck at work down south, no telly, bored out my tiny mind). If Goodwin stayed with us, continued on with the reasonable momentum we had and we slugged across the line to finish 6th by the hairs on his beautiful chinny chin chin, he would have been arguably the most successful Saints Manager in living memory. 

What would he have to do to become the equivalent at Aberdeen? 

That hypothetical success, if he stayed, would have been achievable as the board has provided stability and within the boundaries of financial prudence and backed him. 

Realistically, what is Dave Cormack and the Aberdeen fans using as a metric for success? Imagine next season Goodwin is given the financial backing and spends big. Would third and a cup be seen as a greater achievement with Aberdeen, than sixth with an unfashionable provincial team like ourselves*. 

I understand that his wages will have increased by a factor of many, but that's short term. His earning potential would have been significantly greater by providing a greater comparable level of success with us. I assume his route to where he sees himself is down South for a gig or two then the Ireland job. Seems further away now. Strikes me even more as a strange decision.

AS @pozbairdhas mentioned above, I bare JG no malace at all, and i wish him every success when (Now if, I suppose)  he gets his move South. The more I reflect on the last few weeks, the more questionable a decision is seems to be.  

 

 

 

 

* But still currently above Aberdeen with a game in hand against a bottom of the table, rank Dundee side.

I actually think 3rd place and a cup win here and there would be enough to satisfy Aberdeen, and keep Goodwin in a job there. My view though is that for all their ‘third biggest budget’ and undoubted good support in a big stadium - none of that makes Aberdeen any better than Hearts, Hibs, Motherwell, Dundee United, or until this season, St Johnstone. I also believe Livingston are a helluva’ tough nut to crack, and to be fair, neither ourselves or Ross County are mugs.. Killie could come back stronger than Dundee for example.

So, for Aberdeen to finish 3rd, there’s a lot of evenly matched teams for them to beat. To win a cup ‘here and there’ there’s the ugly sisters, who are now a country mile stronger than anyone. I don’t see Aberdeen’s 3rd biggest budget in Scottish fitba’ buying them, or guaranteeing them anything, or comfortably see them as Scotland’s 3rd force. I look at Aberdeen and I just see one of the pack.

Edited March 4, 2022 by pozbaird

[Lex]

Alex Ferguson said it best. Can’t remember the exact quote but it was along the lines of:
‘East Stirling could never be a St Mirren, St Mirren could never be a Aberdeen and and Aberdeen could never be a Man Utd’.
Hence he made the moves from those clubs each time - East Stirling were actually above us in the 70’s when he left them to come to us.
It was true then and its true now. Every club has a ceiling and Aberdeen’s is higher than ours, of course it is. They’re a city club with much more fans and a much bigger budget. Just like our ceiling is higher than Alloa and East Stirling, which why we can poach their managers whenever.
You can either accept this as part of supporting St Mirren, or get upset by it. I would suggest the former!
Anyway, big game tomorrow. Lose and top six will become difficult. Win, and we should do it.

[Doctor Sanchez]

There's zero upset. The point was a non-emotive questioning of his decision making. Seems illogical.

 

Spock, out. 

[ZingaliMan]

20 minutes ago, Lex said:

Alex Ferguson said it best. Can’t remember the exact quote but it was along the lines of:
‘East Stirling could never be a St Mirren, St Mirren could never be a Aberdeen and and Aberdeen could never be a Man Utd’.
Hence he made the moves from those clubs each time - East Stirling were actually above us in the 70’s when he left them to come to us.
It was true then and its true now. Every club has a ceiling and Aberdeen’s is higher than ours, of course it is. They’re a city club with much more fans and a much bigger budget. Just like our ceiling is higher than Alloa and East Stirling, which why we can poach their managers whenever.
You can either accept this as part of supporting St Mirren, or get upset by it. I would suggest the former!
Anyway, big game tomorrow. Lose and top six will become difficult. Win, and we should do it.

Yes this is the way football has gone. Back in the day Saints out bid Celtic and Aberdeen to sign Fitzy. ST Mirren also broke the Scottish transfer market. In days gone by you shared the gate receipts. Who signed up for that to change should be ashamed of themselves.  It is what it is now as such we are a shrunk club but a club punishing above its weight.  

[jimmy boo]

Alex Ferguson said it best. Can’t remember the exact quote but it was along the lines of:
‘East Stirling could never be a St Mirren, St Mirren could never be a Aberdeen and and Aberdeen could never be a Man Utd’.
Hence he made the moves from those clubs each time - East Stirling were actually above us in the 70’s when he left them to come to us.
It was true then and its true now. Every club has a ceiling and Aberdeen’s is higher than ours, of course it is. They’re a city club with much more fans and a much bigger budget. Just like our ceiling is higher than Alloa and East Stirling, which why we can poach their managers whenever.
You can either accept this as part of supporting St Mirren, or get upset by it. I would suggest the former!
Anyway, big game tomorrow. Lose and top six will become difficult. Win, and we should do it.

Excellent post! It's not what we like to hear but is the reality of the current way things are.

[Insaintee]

43 minutes ago, Lex said:

Alex Ferguson said it best. Can’t remember the exact quote but it was along the lines of:
‘East Stirling could never be a St Mirren, St Mirren could never be a Aberdeen and and Aberdeen could never be a Man Utd’.
Hence he made the moves from those clubs each time - East Stirling were actually above us in the 70’s when he left them to come to us.
It was true then and its true now. Every club has a ceiling and Aberdeen’s is higher than ours, of course it is. They’re a city club with much more fans and a much bigger budget. Just like our ceiling is higher than Alloa and East Stirling, which why we can poach their managers whenever.
You can either accept this as part of supporting St Mirren, or get upset by it. I would suggest the former!
Anyway, big game tomorrow. Lose and top six will become difficult. Win, and we should do it.

Not sure this is right, St Johnstone, Livingstone, Ross County should all "never be a St Mirren," but in recent years have been as or more successful, Dundee United made that jump more recently, and teams like Dunfermline, Dundee and Falkirk have all gone the other way. 

The idea of a "natural order" is nonsense.  Start winning and the fans come, even recently we saw this with Killie. So much of this is about being in the right place at the right time. Ferguson was certainly fortunate, Firstly coming into an exciting young St Mirren side, then taking a good part of that to Aberdeen an mixing it with some good young players and picking up other others from other teams. He struggled at Man U big time until he the golden generation arrived and topped it of with Cantona. 

If he had stayed, are we really saying he would have been less successful that Clunie and Bone? I'm pretty sure he would have won silverwear with us. 

Equally, Goodwin could have built something here, harder due to having to rebuild most years but could have been done. Other than Ramirez and maybe Ferguson, not sure who I'd pay money for in that Aberdeen side. So he's going to have to rebuild there too. 

No doubt Jim will come for our best players, Main, Flynn, McAllister and Millar all off to Pitodrie at the end of the season no doubt.

[Torfason]

In terms of natural order, Aberdeen may be bigger than the Edinburgh clubs for example but Edinburgh is a far better city to attract players so Aberdeen probably have to offer more to get players.

[Mainstand Sweary Mob]

No doubt Jim will come for our best players, Main, Flynn, McAllister and Millar all off to Pitodrie at the end of the season no doubt.

I see what you did there. Love it. [emoji106]

[pozbaird]

Personally, whatever St Mirren’s ceiling is, I could die happy tomorrow, knowing I saw us win the Scottish Cup, the League Cup, the Anglo Scottish Cup, more than one ‘Division 1’ titles, finish 3rd in the league, play multiple times in Europe, and have talent appear like Fitzpatrick, McAvennie, Somner and a ton of others in the stripes.

We could win the Scottish Cup again. We could win the League Cup again. We could play in Europe again. Hell, it isn’t outrageous to say, with a fair wind, we could even finish 3rd in the top flight again. Maybe.

Aberdeen are never, ever again, going to win two European trophies, multiple top flight titles and Scottish Cups, and make the Old Firm look like mugs. I appreciate Goodwin’s remit won’t extend to bringing those days back, but whatever their ‘ceiling’ now is, they might never reach it again these days. I look at their squad, and I genuinely think Livingston, Motherwell, Dundee Utd and the Edinburgh clubs are harder fixtures… I think Jim has his work cut out up there.

[GAD]

45 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Personally, whatever St Mirren’s ceiling is, I could die happy tomorrow, knowing I saw us win the Scottish Cup, the League Cup, the Anglo Scottish Cup, more than one ‘Division 1’ titles, finish 3rd in the league, play multiple times in Europe, and have talent appear like Fitzpatrick, McAvennie, Somner and a ton of others in the stripes.

We could win the Scottish Cup again. We could win the League Cup again. We could play in Europe again. Hell, it isn’t outrageous to say, with a fair wind, we could even finish 3rd in the top flight again. Maybe.

Aberdeen are never, ever again, going to win two European trophies, multiple top flight titles and Scottish Cups, and make the Old Firm look like mugs. I appreciate Goodwin’s remit won’t extend to bringing those days back, but whatever their ‘ceiling’ now is, they might never reach it again these days. I look at their squad, and I genuinely think Livingston, Motherwell, Dundee Utd and the Edinburgh clubs are harder fixtures… I think Jim has his work cut out up there.

Yeah, I think we've been pretty lucky for a club of our size with the good times we've had. I was 7 when we won the Scottish cup, so my formative years as a St Mirren fan were mostly in the 90s where the thought of winning the 1st Division was an outlandish dream. Since then I've seen 3 1st Division/Championship titles, a challenge cup, and a league cup. There have also been 4 or 5 "great escapes" which to some extent are just as much fun. I know it's a bit up and down, and there have been some shit times, relegations, the cup final we don't talk about, but it's all part of the fun.

[pozbaird]

59 minutes ago, GAD said:

Yeah, I think we've been pretty lucky for a club of our size with the good times we've had. I was 7 when we won the Scottish cup, so my formative years as a St Mirren fan were mostly in the 90s where the thought of winning the 1st Division was an outlandish dream. Since then I've seen 3 1st Division/Championship titles, a challenge cup, and a league cup. There have also been 4 or 5 "great escapes" which to some extent are just as much fun. I know it's a bit up and down, and there have been some shit times, relegations, the cup final we don't talk about, but it's all part of the fun.

Exactly - and when we saw our team win the Scottish Cup, we didn’t fcuk up the entire thing for ever by invading the park and battling with the Arabs fans.

[sergie's no1 fan]

On 03/03/2022 at 17:45, pozbaird said:

I genuinely haven’t spoken to one St Mirren fan who thinks anything other than Jim has made a mistake taking the Aberdeen job. Aberdeen as they are in 2022. Scottish football as it is in 2022 - his job with St Mirren was the closest thing to secure that you could reasonably expect to find. Even if we were relegated, the likelihood is we would have stuck by him as the man to regroup and lead us back up. I wish Jim and indeed Aberdeen, absolutely no ill will, I just think he has made a big mistake. Only time will tell of course.

Gut feeling is I agree. He needs time to sort that squad out and then whats the best he can do, 3rd challenge for 2nd and hope to get a cup or 2. 

On 03/03/2022 at 18:29, ZingaliMan said:

Was thinking he is having a look at the squad given changes since he came in. Finding out his best 11 ? Who knows Ross County will be a stern test . 

Our starting 11 pretty much picks itself full strength. With the busy schedule he will mix it up a bit. Power looked done after 25 mins midweek. 

On 03/03/2022 at 18:30, btb said:

I'd disagree, Aberdeen aren't a "sack happy" club they've had fewer managers than us since the millenium (excluding interim appointments) 7 to our 12 - I'll wager he'll be at Aberdeen longer than Robinson is with us!

 

True Goodwin is their 3rd manager in just over 12 months or so though.

On 03/03/2022 at 18:37, Bobby_F said:

He's had 20 minutes at home with 11v11 against the third placed team who'd just got a load of players back from injury.

Then away to Celtic.

Not exactly an easy start.

Next, away to one of the form teams in the league.

Really bad timing that the Dundee game was cancelled; but hey ho - we'll now get to play it after a trip to Dingwall and before taking on Hearts in the cup at Tynecastle.

He's really not had the easiest of starts.

Definitely not an easy start and as I said, we can't blame Robinson. We probably would have taken a point max in the 2 games anyway. 

On 03/03/2022 at 22:10, Torfason said:

I have a bit of apathy creeping in, ordinarily when we change manager it's exciting because we sacked some idiot like Stubbs. Even when JR left,  I wasn't as bothered (not knowing the damage Stubbs would do) as he was untested in the Premiership but Jim leaving has created a bit of a hangover. 

Win a couple of games and it's gone but right now............meh.

Today is huge. Hope we get a positive reaction but this is another hard game. 

Would like to see some changes for this game. Maybe reintroduce Erhahon to the team again.

[RandomGuy.]

20 hours ago, Insaintee said:

St Johnstone should "never be a St Mirren"

Why do folk act like we're some brand new side who didn't appear in the top-flight before 2009?

We averaged 10k fans and were drawint with Monaco in the 90s, and were reaching Cup Finals and beating Hamburg in the 70s.

Neither us or St Mirren have a top flight title either. The idea we aren't in the same "group" of clubs is both weird and hilarious.

[AW saint]

We need movement and craft up top and a focused defence today. Time to get Grieve and Brophey in the same side and stick Main as far from the team as possible. 

[Billy Jean King]

We need movement and craft up top and a focused defence today. Time to get Grieve and Brophey in the same side and stick Main as far from the team as possible. 

Main is more Kraft than Craft is what your saying.

[Torfason]

St Mirrens new management team discuss tactics with Curtis Main. 

[Lex]

No big surprise there’s been a drop off since the manager change really, what a run we were on.
A 1-0 defeat in Dingwall isn’t a surprise or a disaster in itself, but it’s not the kind of result we have been used to recently. The last time we lost to a team outside the top three was October, it’s now March.
Sounds like some knives are being sharpened already, if we lose at Dundee and Tynecastle in the next seven days they will be out.

[pozbaird]

Aberdeen are shite with Goodwin, we’re shite without him. Clearly, both clubs should agree a quick swap deal before Goodwin or Robinson do something daft like buy new houses or get their kids into new schools, and we can both crack on. Get it sorted Kibble / Fitzy / GLS / Needham / SMiSA / The Buddie Good Food Van…. whoever the fcuk calls the shots down there.

Edited March 5, 2022 by pozbaird

[Dirty Sanchez]

Revelation from the Ross County commentator that Jay Henderson is the son of erstwhile pantomime villain of the 1990s Saints support, Darren Henderson, who was top drawer at shithousery in his Stranraer days.