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The St. Mirren FC 2023/24 thread


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1 hour ago, Doonhame Buddie said:

Got to wonder why Joe Shaughnessy has fallen so far out of favour. 
Neither Fraser nor Gogic are specialist central defenders so it was strange Joe couldn’t find a place in the side in Gallagher’s absence. 
 

Any news on why Gallagher wasn’t in yesterday’s squad?

Gogic plays centre half for his country. Robinson stated when he signed him that he was signed as a centre half. He started out at Hamilton as a CH. He's a CH who can play in midfield equally well. A great player to have. He was extremely solid yesterday.

Marcus Fraser also played CH regularly whilst at the green bigots and Ross County. He's another who can play two roles equally well. I had my doubts about him at CH, but with Gallagher (and Gogic) alongside him, happily he seems to be performing way above my expectations.

What's there to wonder about Shaugnessy? I think it's obvious that Robinson prefers the others to him. Hardly an unusual managerial decision. Given our good start it's hard to argue that Shaugnessy deserves a place in the team. 

Gallagher is injured.

 

Edited by FTOF
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2 minutes ago, FTOF said:

Gogic plays centre half for his country. Robinson stated when he signed him that he was signed as a centre half. He started out at Hamilton as a CH. He's a CH who can play in midfield equally well. A great player to have. He was extremely solid yesterday.

What's there to wonder about Shaugnessy? I think it's obvious that Robinson prefers the others to him. Hardly an unusual managerial decision. Given our good start it's hard to argue that Shaugnessy deserves a place in the team. 

Gallagher is injured.

 

Makes me a wee bit sad to see Shaughnessy well out of things. He's been a big player for us and we really needed him the past few seasons. He also comes across as a really good guy.

But it's football, defensively we have been very good this season. Can't really criticise the fact that he's out the team. 

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12 minutes ago, houston_bud said:

Makes me a wee bit sad to see Shaughnessy well out of things. He's been a big player for us and we really needed him the past few seasons. He also comes across as a really good guy.

But it's football, defensively we have been very good this season. Can't really criticise the fact that he's out the team. 

Indeed.

I love Big Joe and it's great to have him as back up just now, but I think the writing is on the wall.

Maybe he'll get his chance, but it looks unlikely.

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21 minutes ago, FTOF said:

What's there to wonder about Shaugnessy? I think it's obvious that Robinson prefers the others to him. Hardly an unusual managerial decision. Given our good start it's hard to argue that Shaugnessy deserves a place in the team.

 

A tag harsh, imo.

For me, it's an easy argument that he deserves a place, not saying that argument will win but it's a very easy argument to make. As for it being an usual managerial decision, don't go with that. This was the captain, a player like across the fanbase and a player who had put in multiple MotM performances last season. To drop that sort of player is definitely not usual.

Now to be fair, it's worked out for Robinson, but it doesn't leave any less of a bit of a bad taste in the mouth seeing Shaughnessy confined to the bench.

We don't know what is going on behind the scenes, and Shaughnessy looked motivated in his short cameo the other week, but ultimately if Robinson had made his mind up, he should have shifted him out during the Summer, as come this window he'll be able to sign a PCA, and we'll lose any possible transfer fee. I would be stunned if he's still around come February, which is a shame considering how much he has benefited the team over the years. As for where, you'd have to look at St Johnstone and/or Aberdeen due to previous stints at both, and looking at both he would add to their respective teams.

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I think an important thing for the success of this Robbo team is that we play a high line so we need quick centre halves who can cope with a ball over the top. Fraser, Dunne, Gogic and Gallagher are all much quicker than Shaughnessy. Joe will likely only really feature now if we're holding on and sitting really deep or chasing the game and we can use his height at set pieces. Or I suppose if we're really stuck with injuries/suspensions. 

 

It's a shame cos I really like the guy but I don't think there's any chance of him forcing his way into the team. 

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32 minutes ago, Ric said:

A tag harsh, imo.

For me, it's an easy argument that he deserves a place, not saying that argument will win but it's a very easy argument to make. As for it being an usual managerial decision, don't go with that. This was the captain, a player like across the fanbase and a player who had put in multiple MotM performances last season. To drop that sort of player is definitely not usual.

Now to be fair, it's worked out for Robinson, but it doesn't leave any less of a bit of a bad taste in the mouth seeing Shaughnessy confined to the bench.

We don't know what is going on behind the scenes, and Shaughnessy looked motivated in his short cameo the other week, but ultimately if Robinson had made his mind up, he should have shifted him out during the Summer, as come this window he'll be able to sign a PCA, and we'll lose any possible transfer fee. I would be stunned if he's still around come February, which is a shame considering how much he has benefited the team over the years. As for where, you'd have to look at St Johnstone and/or Aberdeen due to previous stints at both, and looking at both he would add to their respective teams.

It's all about opinions and the only one that matters is Robinson's. Happily his team selections, for the most part, seem to be working.

A similar scenario is Joe Lewis (the captain) at Aberdeen being replaced by Roos. As I said it's hardly an unusual situation at a football club.

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36 minutes ago, Ric said:

A tag harsh, imo.

For me, it's an easy argument that he deserves a place, not saying that argument will win but it's a very easy argument to make. As for it being an usual managerial decision, don't go with that. This was the captain, a player like across the fanbase and a player who had put in multiple MotM performances last season. To drop that sort of player is definitely not usual.

Now to be fair, it's worked out for Robinson, but it doesn't leave any less of a bit of a bad taste in the mouth seeing Shaughnessy confined to the bench.

We don't know what is going on behind the scenes, and Shaughnessy looked motivated in his short cameo the other week, but ultimately if Robinson had made his mind up, he should have shifted him out during the Summer, as come this window he'll be able to sign a PCA, and we'll lose any possible transfer fee. I would be stunned if he's still around come February, which is a shame considering how much he has benefited the team over the years. As for where, you'd have to look at St Johnstone and/or Aberdeen due to previous stints at both, and looking at both he would add to their respective teams.

‘A bit of a bad taste’ is a bit over the top. He’s been a good servant, but Gallagher is an improvement on him and Joe can’t play the other two CB slots as well as Fraser or Dunne.

Dunne gives the balance as he’s left sided and Fraser can step forward and support Strain, something that’s been effective this season. With the greatest of respect to Joe, he just doesn’t offer that.

The question yesterday was Gogic or Joe. Clearly, with the investment in Gogic he’s going to be ahead of him. 

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16 minutes ago, Spam_Valley said:

He’s a better CB than either of those two. It’s his pace that’s keeping him out of the team.

Yeah, but we play a back 3 now. It’s a different argument if we are playing a 4, as he’s probably going to play in that.

it doesn’t work in a 3 though, given what I said about being able to step forward with the ball, etc.

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30 minutes ago, aldo_j said:

‘A bit of a bad taste’ is a bit over the top. He’s been a good servant, but Gallagher is an improvement on him and Joe can’t play the other two CB slots as well as Fraser or Dunne.

He was able to play all across the back line before so the "can't play" isn't fair, imo. Does he have the speed of Dunne? No. Nor is he left footed, for balance on the LCB. However he has played there and played well in a successful defence.

The positive is that he's not spat the dummy, so fair play to him for that, but he was the captain and had done nothing wrong to deserve being huckled out of the team. I understand shifting the captain's armband to someone who will be playing each week, but it still feels like it's a bit unfair.

 

34 minutes ago, FTOF said:

It's all about opinions and the only one that matters is Robinson's. Happily his team selections, for the most part, seem to be working.

A similar scenario is Joe Lewis (the captain) at Aberdeen being replaced by Roos. As I said it's hardly an unusual situation at a football club.

While I agree with the first part, Lewis was papped out because he was terrible last season. That's the main crux of it, Shaughnessy had done nothing wrong to get dropped.

 

 

To address both of you, am I arguing for a guaranteed return of Shaughnessy into the starting 11? Not at the moment, it's clear the combination of Fraser, Gallacher and Dunne are settled now (barring injuries). The question for me is which would I rely on to replace and injured Gallacher. I understand why Gogic was chosen, but that hints at Shaughnessy being unable to force his way back into the team just through commitment and effort alone.

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While I agree with the first part, Lewis was papped out because he was terrible last season. That's the main crux of it, Shaughnessy had done nothing wrong to get dropped.
 
 
To address both of you, am I arguing for a guaranteed return of Shaughnessy into the starting 11? Not at the moment, it's clear the combination of Fraser, Gallacher and Dunne are settled now (barring injuries). The question for me is which would I rely on to replace and injured Gallacher. I understand why Gogic was chosen, but that hints at Shaughnessy being unable to force his way back into the team just through commitment and effort alone.
Lewis wasn't dreadful. Like Shaugnessy he made a few mistakes . He didn't suddenly become a bombscare, and I'm sure if Roos was injured he would be, like Shaugnessy, a more than able replacement.
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10 minutes ago, FTOF said:

Lewis wasn't dreadful.

He was terrible last season. You can go check the Aberdeen thread for confirmation.

Spoiler

Here are just some recent examples:

Quote

 I like Lewis, but the version of him we saw over the last season or two was definitely not the same as the earlier one.  [...] if Goodwin wants a goalkeeper who is reasonably comfortable with the ball at his feet, that isn't going to be Lewis

Quote

Aye, Joe Lewis 2016-2020, we’re golden.

Joe Lewis 2020-2022, we’re in bother. 

 

 

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While our back 3 has been excellent overall this season Dunne has had 2 games where he made several crucial mistakes. I would have dropped him for the next game for two reasons 1 to let him know simple stupid errors won't be tolerated and 2 let those on the bench know they can get in the team. We should use some squad rotation to try and keep everyone hungry.

Joe is a good centre half and I wouldn't like to lose him nor some of the others on the bench because they aren't getting a sniff of playing.

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Fans of a younger generation should enjoy this moment to the full they don't come along often being a Saints fan. Robinson is an outstanding manager results don't lie. If we can keep the majority of the squad in January European football could be possible . Got a thumb up from McGrath yesterday he must be impressed with our improvement lastly brilliant to see our strikers are getting the goals. apparently they don't grow on trees. .  Happy Days Buds. 

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6 hours ago, FTOF said:

I love Big Joe and it's great to have him as back up just now, but I think the writing is on the wall.

Definitely.

Barring a serious injury to one of the other centre-halves I would expect Joe to move on in January. Perhaps replaced by a young loanee on a fraction of the wage.

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