Coventry Saint Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, Drooper said: The notion that former offenders cannot be rehabituated is utterly preposterous. I understand that oaksoft has very valid personal reasons to hold the views he does, but a sense of proportion is also require. I don't know enough about Gallagher's circumstances, so can't really comment. That said, I'm not going to be a hypocrite here, either. I'd be appalled if Goodwillie or the likes was anywhere near our club. Hopefully Gallagher is genuinely remorseful. Don't think it's hypocritical: you're allowed to draw the line wherever you want. If that happens to be sexual offenders, then fine. You wouldn't be alone. I'm slightly conflicted with this, but it's been many years since it happened and he's played for two clubs since without further incident that I'm aware of. I think we either need to decide that we're part of a society that aims to rehabilitate offenders or we're not. I'd suggest Gallagher has rehabilitated now. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 19 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said: Don't think it's hypocritical: you're allowed to draw the line wherever you want. If that happens to be sexual offenders, then fine. You wouldn't be alone. I'm slightly conflicted with this, but it's been many years since it happened and he's played for two clubs since without further incident that I'm aware of. I think we either need to decide that we're part of a society that aims to rehabilitate offenders or we're not. I'd suggest Gallagher has rehabilitated now. Spot on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spam_Valley Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 At the end of the day, I’d much rather our club signed someone that rattled a guy over the head with a bat than one that tries to rattle wee lassies. Gallacher > Griffiths. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 Yikes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coventry Saint Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 Just now, Mr. Alli said: Yikes. Which bit? Genuine question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Coventry Saint said: Don't think it's hypocritical: you're allowed to draw the line wherever you want. If that happens to be sexual offenders, then fine. You wouldn't be alone. I'm slightly conflicted with this, but it's been many years since it happened and he's played for two clubs since without further incident that I'm aware of. I think we either need to decide that we're part of a society that aims to rehabilitate offenders or we're not. I'd suggest Gallagher has rehabilitated now. I'm sure that one of the roles that The Kibble offers, is rehabilitation of young offenders. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZingaliMan Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 1 hour ago, oaksoft said: No I don't believe they can. But it's more than that. I'm saying I don't care. I'm sick of the impact criminals have on the lives of innocent people. I'm sick of their excuses, their apologies and their hard-luck stories as though they were the real victims in everything. I'm sick of people fawning over Martindale's conversion. I'm sick of all of it. People still hero-worship the Krays for fucks sake. You definitely have a talent to be a Tory minister. How about shifting all convicted persons to Rowanda. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 I must admit to having no real knowledge of Gallagher’s baseball bat affair. Didn’t big daft Broadfoot get involved in a few incidents in the past too? I must read up on the circumstances surrounding Gallagher before deciding if I should give him my support, or ask SMiSA to have him burnt at the stake. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston_bud Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, oaksoft said: No I don't believe they can. But it's more than that. I'm saying I don't care. I'm sick of the impact criminals have on the lives of innocent people. I'm sick of their excuses, their apologies and their hard-luck stories as though they were the real victims in everything. I'm sick of people fawning over Martindale's conversion. I'm sick of all of it. People still hero-worship the Krays for fucks sake. To be fair to Martindale, I don't think he has tried to make excuses. He's fronted up to his past and I've never heard him make out that he was the victim. Gallagher's crime (from the little I know) seems pretty nasty. It sits a little uneasy with me that he's signed but I don't think that people who have committed crimes should be written off for the rest of their lives. Edited June 26, 2022 by houston_bud 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 1 minute ago, oaksoft said: We could have signed a convicted child rapist and we'd still have people supporting signing him as long as he could score a few goals. I reckon you should delete this shite. Immediately. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Drooper said: The notion that former offenders cannot be rehabilitated is utterly preposterous. I understand that oaksoft has very valid personal reasons to hold the views he does, but a sense of proportion is also require. I don't know enough about Gallagher's circumstances, so can't really comment. That said, I'm not going to be a hypocrite here, either. I'd be appalled if Goodwillie or the likes was anywhere near our club. Hopefully Gallagher is genuinely remorseful. I have vague memories of an interview with him a few years ago - possibly after he first got into the Scotland squad - saying he was sorry about what had happened. A few days later came something from the victim saying it was news to him Gallagher was sorry as he'd never apologised. No idea if that's still the case. 37 minutes ago, FTOF said: I'm sure that one of the roles that The Kibble offers, is rehabilitation of young offenders. I was tempted to make a joke last night about his background being perfect for the Kibble (a Kibble signing, if you will) but decided against it. It wouldn't be a huge surprise to see some media stuff in the future involving Gallagher and some of the Kibble folk. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 1 minute ago, oaksoft said: That is not the reason for me holding these views about convicted criminals. You have to have the ability to put victims of serious crime first, second and last. Too many people do the bare minimum on that score and then pour support (and public money) into getting the criminal back on their feet. The alternative is to pour money into keeping them incarcerated and conditioned onto believing that once a criminal, always a criminal. Not sure how that benefits anyone. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 22 minutes ago, oaksoft said: We could have signed a convicted child rapist and we'd still have people supporting signing him as long as he could score a few goals. When it comes to kicking a football, some people have no moral compass or empathy with victims of serious crime - as long as it wasn't their family member. BTW, Gallagher could easily have killed that person. Clubbing someone with a bat can have that effect. Still, he's better than the defenders we have eh....? I'd be amazed if even one of our supporters would get behind a child rapist. I do agree that lack of a moral compass of our football clubs has been a significant issue. However, perhaps things are slowly changing - the Goodwillie situation, response to Ryan Giggs and Mason Greenwood are perhaps examples - yet there are still glaring inconsistencies. Harry Paton is facing similar charges to Greenwood yet played most of last season for Ross County without comment. Goodwillie had been playing for Clyde and made captain by Danny Lennon with no fuss, wrongly in my opinion. It is this inconsistency that is baffling. Regarding Gallagher, there is a powerful argument for rehabilitation- the offence occurred 7 years ago with no repetition, he has served his sentence and has played for three clubs and been capped by Scotland since then. My only issue is interviews I have seen from him after the offence and sentence spoke of the impact on him and his family, but not on the victim - though I could have missed any statements of remorse from him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kapowzer Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 Las and Robbo's joint press conference 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 2 hours ago, capt_oats said: but the St Mirren fans going to bat for him on Twitter saying how great he was for Motherwell are definitely being selective on his time with us. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 1 minute ago, oaksoft said: I disagree. We've come close enough to it to know for certain that there would be some supporters who would overlook it. Goodwillie (rape) and Craig Thomson (Edinburgh City - child porn offences) spring immediately to mind. You know for certain that St Mirren could sign a convicted child rapist, and some supporters wouldn’t care, as long as he scored some goals. You really are something else. To make that statement not once, but twice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munoz Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 1 minute ago, oaksoft said: You are not sure how keeping serious convicted criminals locked up helps anyone? Really? Fair enough, if that is your view then it's your view. You sound like you'd be happy going down the American route- lock up everyone no matter the offense and throw away the key. I'm not suggesting for one minute Declan's offence was trivial, but you really need to look at the bigger picture. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: You are not sure how keeping serious convicted criminals locked up helps anyone? Really? Fair enough, if that is your view then it's your view. I have to say though that keeping a guy who hit someone with a baseball bat locked up to guarantee he can't repeat that seems like a benefit to general society to me. That argument only stacks up if you genuinely believe that convicted offenders cannot be rehabilitated, as you suggested earlier. Such a cotention has no basis in fact. Anyway, Gallagher has signed, and I imagine we all have our views on whether or not it was a prudent acquisition by the club. I'm not entirely comfortable with it, to be honest, but I strongly believe in the concept of rehabilitation (it is demonstrably possible and often fully achieved), so hope it applies in his case. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted June 26, 2022 Author Share Posted June 26, 2022 39 minutes ago, oaksoft said: We could have signed a convicted child rapist and we'd still have people supporting signing him as long as he could score a few goals. Bollocks. Absolute bollocks. There is a line to be drawn here between someone who has a violent past such as Gallagher, McGowan, Broadfoot and even a history of non-violent crime such as Charlie Adam (drink driving) and for the older Saints fans Barry Lavety and John Boyd compared with fucking rapists and child abusers. Where that line is, is not for me to decide but FFS, the furore over Griffiths potentially signing back in January and the unrest that caused in about 99% of our support shows that it wouldn't be tolerated and Griffiths wasn't even convicted of anything. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 (edited) On 25/06/2022 at 09:04, RandomGuy. said: McCart is away to Rotherham. Carey was hawking himself around Scottish clubs in January so every chance he's at it again this Summer. No one would be stupid enough to sign him now though, would they? Oh. https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/20236609.graham-carey-set-return-scotland-st-johnstone-exit-cska-sofia/ Loved him with us and he was never the most mobile of players so age catching up with him shouldn't really be an issue Edited June 26, 2022 by Stu 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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