The St. Mirren FC 2023/24 thread

[AW saint]

The squad is paper thin and our policy of signing injury prone players is not helping our cause

[houston_bud]

7 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

Defensively, I do blame Goodwin. I think I mentioned many months ago that the decision to run with 6 defenders in the squad when you play 5 at the back every week is ludicrous. Particularly as one of those was coming off the back of 2 years of injuries.

He seemed to balance that somewhat with the signing of Matt Millar but Millar seems to be so far out of the picture he may as well be back in Australia. He apparently been injured for weeks and weeks but I get the impression that even if he wasn't he'd not even get a shout.

Goodwin isn't above criticism and your points are fair. 

Given where we were when he left and where we are now, I don't think he shoulders any of the blame should we finish 11th. 

[Shuggie_Murray7]

 

The revisionist history really is something else. Listening to some, you'd think we were some sort of juggernaut before Goodwin left. In reality, we have been dog shit all season long and have gone through multiple horrendous winless runs. The only reason we were even in contention for top 6 was because trhe teams around us were just as pish. Let's not pretend that we're somehow playing any worse under Robinson than we did under Goodwin.

Robinson's record is shocking, but the underlying cause of all of this lies firmly at Goodwin's door.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Shuggie_Murray7

[houston_bud]

55 minutes ago, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

 

The revisionist history really is something else. Listening to some, you'd think we were some sort of juggernaut before Goodwin left. In reality, we have been dog shit all season long and have gone through multiple horrendous winless runs. The only reason we were even in contention for top 6 was because trhe teams around us were just as pish. Let's not pretend that we're somehow playing any worse under Robinson than we did under Goodwin.

Robinson's record is shocking, but the underlying cause of all of this lies firmly at Goodwin's door.

I don't think anyone is saying that. We had a dreadful run under Goodwin earlier in the season and one last season too but he had us more than an arms length from any relegation battle (two seasons running).

The idea that we have not been worse under Robinson is absurd. We've lost more league games since he came in than we did this season under Goodwin, and he's had 8 league games. Only Kearney has a worse start of any manager we've had in the top flight. And Kearney came into an absolute riot.

[Lex]

58 minutes ago, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

 

The revisionist history really is something else. Listening to some, you'd think we were some sort of juggernaut before Goodwin left. In reality, we have been dog shit all season long and have gone through multiple horrendous winless runs. The only reason we were even in contention for top 6 was because trhe teams around us were just as pish. Let's not pretend that we're somehow playing any worse under Robinson than we did under Goodwin.

Robinson's record is shocking, but the underlying cause of all of this lies firmly at Goodwin's door.

We were sitting 4th on PPG the day Goodwin left, you think we would be in the same position we are now had he stayed? If your point is the standard of the Scottish Premiership is fairly hopeless and you don't have to be a good team to be in the top half of the top flight then i'd certainly agree with that. Motherwell have won one game since Boxing Day (against us, naturally) and they're in the top six.  We wouldn't have had to have done much more to be sitting top half now, a couple of wins and draws would have done it.

The winless run of 11 games under Goodwin is nowhere near as bad as the long Robinson. We drew five of the 11 games and there were several good performances during it (the 2-2 draw at Fir Park which we should have won, and of course the COVID 0-0 against Celtic) Even when we weren't playing well we still didn't lose many games, between the start of the season in July and February we had lost just two games to teams outside the top three in all competitions. Between Robinson arriving in February and April, we've lost four out of the five we've played. 

The drop in performance levels and results is clear and obvious. Robinson has went in to a good situation like a wrecking ball and pissed off the dressing room. He said himself he's told several of the contracted players they're free to leave in the summer. As a result they're going through the motions, so we now lose every game.  For me the blame lies firstly and mainly with Robinson's burn it all down approach, and secondly with the players for chucking it.

[NorthBank]

We may not have been fantastic under Goodwin since January but neither was any of the opposition that we beat. We were no worse than any of them and we did play some good football almost always away from home (Dundee Utd, Well and Hibs). We were unbeaten on merit and not just luck.

Since he left the teams we competed against earlier are now beating us as our once good defence is now a shambles. And I have yet to see a game where I thought we played well except maybe small parts of one game - the Cup game at Tynecastle. The rest we have been rotten.

So same players, same opposition but a completely different set of results by playing poorly. The only thing that has changed is the manager. That must tell us something.

[billyg]

28 minutes ago, NorthBank said:

That must tell us something.

It tells us we need to get shot of him now and get a young ambitious manager in during the summer , with an experienced No2 . Robinson is a never-has-been and the BOD should recognise their mistake and get him in the bin !

[Hendo]

7 minutes ago, billyg said:

It tells us we need to get shot of him now and get a young ambitious manager in during the summer , with an experienced No2 . Robinson is a never-has-been and the BOD should recognise their mistake and get him in the bin !

None of that will happen, unless we are relegated. He's brought in a head of recruitment, making signings for next season (generally guys he's already worked with, all feels a bit lazy TBH) and rumours are that his missus is now working for Mark McMillian. In two months he's managed to get himself in with the bricks as much as Fitzy. He's going nowhere.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

 

The revisionist history really is something else. Listening to some, you'd think we were some sort of juggernaut before Goodwin left. In reality, we have been dog shit all season long and have gone through multiple horrendous winless runs. The only reason we were even in contention for top 6 was because trhe teams around us were just as pish. Let's not pretend that we're somehow playing any worse under Robinson than we did under Goodwin.

Robinson's record is shocking, but the underlying cause of all of this lies firmly at Goodwin's door.

Revisionist history?! Statistical evidence confirms that we were far better under Goodwin, how can you even argue otherwise? We lost 7 out of 25 league games under Jim. We have lost 7 out of 8 league games under Robinson, as @houston_bud noted.

Points Per Game:

Goodwin = 1.28

Robinson = 0.375

 

As @Lex said, we were fourth on PPG when Jim left. Based on his PPG average, we'd have picked up another nine points under him before the split, and would have comfortably made the top six. Even taking Jim's 11 game winless streak, i.e. isolating his worst run of results (which is in no way fair), he averaged 0.45 PPG.

 

ROBINSON OUT!

[flyingscot]

Can't help but feel it's not going to work for Robinson. I'm not buying this 'not his squad pish', it's a squad capable of better results - even a few draws in this run. Motherwell, United and Hibs were on awful runs, which all ended playing us unsuprisingly. 

The team's performances since he was appointed have worsened and it's real Butcher at Hibs feel. Goodwin does shoulder some overall blame with the squad and him leaving disrupting things as well as coming in for players, but fair to say if he had stayed we'd have more points. He did get a bit of the rub of the green before which has disappeared. 

Doubt the club will act before the summer but perhaps we should if we lose at Perth? If we go down, I don't think he should be there next season. 

[aldo_j]

34 minutes ago, billyg said:

It tells us we need to get shot of him now and get a young ambitious manager in during the summer , with an experienced No2 . Robinson is a never-has-been and the BOD should recognise their mistake and get him in the bin !

I just can’t see us binning him at this stage of the season. It’s clearly not working, but I don’t think the board will be that bold.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

Why are folk going on as if Goodwin has left and is racking up the points with Aberdeen? This is Goodwin's squad. This is the imbalanace he left us with. Mental to suggest Goodwin would have gotten us more points had he stayed.

We're now at the business end of the season where teams tend to put runs together in a desperatre bid to beat the drop, yet Goodwin's two teams he has managed in the league this season are in absolute freefall.

[houston_bud]

3 minutes ago, aldo_j said:

I just can’t see us binning him at this stage of the season. It’s clearly not working, but I don’t think the board will be that bold.

You're probably right. I think Saturday is the crunch though. If we win then we're as good as safe, even a draw puts us in a decent place. If we lose though, would you trust him for the final few games to keep us out of the playoffs?

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, flyingscot said:

Can't help but feel it's not going to work for Robinson. I'm not buying this 'not his squad pish', it's a squad capable of better results - even a few draws in this run. Motherwell, United and Hibs were on awful runs, which all ended playing us unsuprisingly. 

The team's performances since he was appointed have worsened and it's real Butcher at Hibs feel. Goodwin does shoulder some overall blame with the squad and him leaving disrupting things as well as coming in for players, but fair to say if he had stayed we'd have more points. He did get a bit of the rub of the green before which has disappeared. 

Doubt the club will act before the summer but perhaps we should if we lose at Perth? If we go down, I don't think he should be there next season. 

I seem to remember we got absolutely no luck during the first five or sick games - we had a goal erroneously ruled out against Celtic (which would have doubled Main's league tally for the season!), plus a goal ruled out against St. Johnstone. I'm sure there were other decisions that went against us.

[houston_bud]

1 minute ago, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

Why are folk going on as if Goodwin has left and is racking up the points with Aberdeen? This is Goodwin's squad. This is the imbalanace he left us with. Mental to suggest Goodwin would have gotten us more points had he stayed.

We're now at the business end of the season where teams tend to put runs together in a desperatre bid to beat the drop, yet Goodwin's two teams he has managed in the league this season are in absolute freefall.

Literally, not one person is arguing that.

[Guest]

I'm not sure if TopCat on BAWA posts on here, but just read this and he sums Robinson up nicely:

 

Quote

 ...we weren't struggling, we didn't need any rockets or upheaval. Robinson brought the fireworks anyway, pissed the team off, and here we are. Fourth on PPG in February and looking like we are going to be 11th in May.

It's interesting watching his interviews change as things have got progressively worse. His first few interviews were all 'good squad of players, we are aiming for top six, europe etc' Perfectly reasonable quotes given the situation inherited. Then we start losing and it's 'I always knew we were in a relegation battle but we have the players to get us out it'. Then the losses keep coming and it's 'only 14 fit players (which is a lie)' and implying the squad isn't good enough. m

You can tell by his recent quotes that he thinks relegation is very much on, and he's now trying to protect his reputation by claiming it's actually not his fault and we were going down regardless of his appointment. No one with eyes is buying it of course, it's pretty much all his fault. He knows he'll be sacked if he takes us down and he's now thinking of his future employment prospects in his interviews. Terry Butcher's managerial career effectively ended when he took Hibs down in 2014. What Robinson is doing to us is much worse, and you can hear the fear in his voice,.

 

ETA: The above poster states (correctly) Robinson was claiming his objective was a top six spot and European fitba when he took over. So to suddenly start claiming the squad is pish and we were facing a relegation battle is simply disingenuous. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Mr. Smith

[Ric]

Bottom line? We've locked ourselves into this strategy we just need to play it out, whether that leads us to safety or a playoff.

Sacking Robinson just now would be utterly pointless, not least because his mate will be in another key role at the club. That's not saying Robinson is unsackable, he obviously isn't, but there is no way a change of manager right now would resolve our problem(s), and meanwhile he's already agreeing deals with people to play for us next season. That's aside from the money it would cost us to ship him out now.

If we were without a manager in the Championship we'd jump at someone with the experience of Robinson, and while his results haven't been great I honestly cannot see someone like either Brown or Naismith doing any better.

We all know Goodwin had long spells of utter shite, but made up for it recently by finding a working strategy/formation, and it's telling he's struggled at Aberdeen. Effectively Dave Cormack has fucked over two clubs with his actions. The frustrating thing for me is that Robinson seems to be going through the same process, rather than taking on board what worked before he seems to have gone back to square one. It just seems like a missed opportunity. Same could be said of Main. Goodwin convinced himself he would be a solution, but it was clear to all even before he signed for us, that this wasn't going to be the case. Again, frustration is borne from Robinson starting from scratch rather than learning the lessons that were previously learnt before he arrived. I understand why Robinson thinks he can get a tune out of Main, but he just can't and his one fluke season doesn't suggest otherwise.

All in all, we'll either stay up or get relegated, at this point there is nothing to do but strap ourselves in and hope that the team can manage to grab 4-6 points out of the remaining fixtures and if not see whether other results go against us.

 

[billyg]

15 minutes ago, Ric said:

 

Sacking Robinson just now would be utterly pointless, not least because his mate will be in another key role at the club.

 

Who's his mate ?

[Ric]

1 minute ago, billyg said:

Who's his mate ?

Is Lasley not his mate?

[billyg]

8 minutes ago, Ric said:

Is Lasley not his mate?

No , absolutely not !