Arch Stanton Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 minute ago, craigkillie said: Do they include the player wage bills for every other Premiership club as a comparison? Every other Ltd Co and PLC will do the same...do your own searching. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted January 7, 2021 Author Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, craigkillie said: I'm always puzzled as to how folk can make comments like this. Nobody knows exactly what the player wage budgets are at every Premiership club. I suspect ours is higher than St Mirren's as a whole, but Saints were willing to pay Brophy a lot more than we were. I do have a feeling a move to St Mirren wasn't quite what he had in mind when he turned down our offer last year though. I mean it's not exactly top secret or takes Hetty Wainthrope to take a relatively accurate stab at it. The average wage of top flight first team players gets published every season and although that doesn't correlate exactly to usage of budget or actual budget numbers, it's not a huge leap in logic to say that the wage budgets of each club will tie in pretty closely with the numbers published. The only thing it doesn't consider is squad size of each club but again, you can take a pretty accurate headcount for each team. There's certainly nothing in those number that would suggest Killie can't compete with us but perhaps the pandemic has taken it's toll massively on budgets at the club since last season. Edited January 7, 2021 by djchapsticks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: There's certainly nothing in those number that would suggest Killie can't compete with us but perhaps the pandemic has taken it's toll massively on budgets at the club since last season. That hotel they have which brings in 50% of their turnover has taken a big hit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said: Every other Ltd Co and PLC will do the same...do your own searching. A lot of clubs just publish their total wage bill, which includes non-football staff too. For example, Killie's used to include all the hotel staff. 5 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: I mean it's not exactly top secret or takes Hetty Wainthrope to take a relatively accurate stab at it. The average wage of top flight first team players gets published every season and although that doesn't correlate exactly to usage of budget or actual budget numbers, it's not a huge leap in logic to say that the wage budgets of each club will tie in pretty closely with the numbers published. The only thing it doesn't consider is squad size of each club but again, you can take a pretty accurate headcount for each team. There's certainly nothing in those number that would suggest Killie can't compete with us but perhaps the pandemic has taken it's toll massively on budgets at the club since last season. These numbers are not in any way official - they are purely based on guesswork. Also, an "average wage per player" is meaningless given that it "punishes" clubs with smaller squads. The total wage bill is much more useful. I already said I think our player wage bill will be higher than St Mirren's, but that doesn't mean we'd necessarily want to offer Brophy as much as you are. Edited January 7, 2021 by craigkillie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Arch Stanton said: That hotel they have which brings in 50% of their turnover has taken a big hit. The football club doesn't own the hotel, and hasn't done for several years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, craigkillie said: I already said I think our player wage bill will be higher than St Mirren's, but that doesn't mean we'd necessarily want to offer Brophy as much as you are. This seems to be regularly missed. Club X pays more then club Y, therefore players will sign for club x. Or on the flip side club Y has signed a player ahead of club X therefore club Y is spending more. It completely ignores there a huge crossover between what club Y will pay their highest earner and what club X will pay their lower, or even mid-earners. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, parsforlife said: This seems to be regularly missed. Club X pays more then club Y, therefore players will sign for club x. Or on the flip side club Y has signed a player ahead of club X therefore club Y is spending more. It completely ignores there a huge crossover between what club Y will pay their highest earner and what club X will pay their lower, or even mid-earners. This is the argument I've raised when people seriously believe we'd actually outgunned Aberdeen or Hibs in terms of money. We have offered Brophy a wage befitting what we'd see fit for a first choice striker. Aberdeen and Hibs likely didn't feel that the wage we were offering for a first choice player was worth matching or bettering for a guy who for them, would maybe be 2nd or 3rd choice. Also realistic to feel that his agent would be after a bit more from the other clubs anyway as he'd be having to relocate. I'd certainly not move to another company 160 miles away if a company nearby were offering me the same money and saving me having to up sticks. Edited January 8, 2021 by djchapsticks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torfason Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 hour ago, craigkillie said: I'm always puzzled as to how folk can make comments like this. Nobody knows exactly what the player wage budgets are at every Premiership club. I suspect ours is higher than St Mirren's as a whole, but Saints were willing to pay Brophy a lot more than we were. I do have a feeling a move to St Mirren wasn't quite what he had in mind when he turned down our offer last year though. Out of interest, how much does Rugby Park cost the club to maintain? It really is a shame to see it’s deterioration over the years as it was pretty impressive when it was first built. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 22 minutes ago, Torfason said: Out of interest, how much does Rugby Park cost the club to maintain? It really is a shame to see it’s deterioration over the years as it was pretty impressive when it was first built. I'm sure it'll be in our accounts somewhere, but I have no idea. I'm not sure I'd agree about it deteriorating though - I think the stadium is still in pretty good shape. We did some renovations last summer with the new hospitality suite, the two standing sections and various murals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 7 hours ago, NorthBank said: Foley's situation won't become clearer until we know what Jake is doing. If he goes I reckon Foley is guaranteed to stay. Is JDH not under contract for the rest of the season? Can’t see us letting him go this month even if he agrees a move elsewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 7 hours ago, djchapsticks said: I mean it's not exactly top secret or takes Hetty Wainthrope to take a relatively accurate stab at it. The average wage of top flight first team players gets published every season and although that doesn't correlate exactly to usage of budget or actual budget numbers, it's not a huge leap in logic to say that the wage budgets of each club will tie in pretty closely with the numbers published. The only thing it doesn't consider is squad size of each club but again, you can take a pretty accurate headcount for each team. There's certainly nothing in those number that would suggest Killie can't compete with us but perhaps the pandemic has taken it's toll massively on budgets at the club since last season. Considering St Johnstone don't make their wage bill public, through accounts or otherwise, I've always wondered quite where these papers get their wage figures from for us. That's ignoring the fact they guess the amount of players that would be on that wage bill to create an "average". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 7 hours ago, djchapsticks said: This is the argument I've raised when people seriously believe we'd actually outgunned Aberdeen or Hibs in terms of money. McInnes has also referenced being financially outmuscled for a player over the last week now. But keep convincing yourself you've not overspent on Brophy, as if it's somehow a personal insult to admit it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: McInnes has also referenced being financially outmuscled for a player over the last week now. But keep convincing yourself you've not overspent on Brophy, as if it's somehow a personal insult to admit it. Don't need to convince myself of anything. Had Aberdeen wanted to make Brophy their first choice striker, they'd have offered him a wage to befit that and we wouldn't have been in the same ballpark. I don't think it should come as a shock to realise that we're willing to spend more on a first choice centre forward than Aberdeen will be on the same person but with the role of a squad player or backup to their main guy. Willingness to spend and ability to spend are different things. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: Don't need to convince myself of anything. Had Aberdeen wanted to make Brophy their first choice striker, they'd have offered him a wage to befit that and we wouldn't have been in the same ballpark. I don't think it should come as a shock to realise that we're willing to spend more on a first choice centre forward than Aberdeen will be on the same person but with the role of a squad player or backup to their main guy. Willingness to spend and ability to spend are different things. McInnes says he "didn't have the money to make people think differently" when losing out on players. Also referencing a club willing to "take a big risk" with handing someone a large contract, same as Davidson referenced. It's quite clear you've spent large of Brophy, and that's fine. Quite how you've decided he wouldn't be first choice for McInnes (fucking Curtis Main is currently first choice) is baffling though, but presumably the only way you can convince yourself you've not overspent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: McInnes says he "didn't have the money to make people think differently" when losing out on players. Also referencing a club willing to "take a big risk" with handing someone a large contract, same as Davidson referenced. It's quite clear you've spent large of Brophy, and that's fine. Quite how you've decided he wouldn't be first choice for McInnes (fucking Curtis Main is currently first choice) is baffling though, but presumably the only way you can convince yourself you've not overspent. I've just offered up reasonings why we are seemingly outgunning historically bigger spending clubs. Now personally, if we are, then that's fine. The fact that we've turned consistent profit in the last 5 years and continue to be well run whilst clubs like Aberdeen are haemorrhaging money will have something to do with it. No one is denying that we've spent large on Brophy. The narrative coming from some corners though is that we're spending more on him than Aberdeen and Hibs ever possibly could and that's something that is clearly bollocks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: That's something that is clearly bollocks. Based on your assumption he wouldn't be a regular starter for an Aberdeen side who regularly play two up front, and have Curtis Main as first choice this season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Based on your assumption he wouldn't be a regular starter for an Aberdeen side who regularly play two up front, and have Curtis Main as first choice this season. So we ARE spending more on him than Aberdeen and Hibs ever possibly could? Thanks for clearing that up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Just now, djchapsticks said: So we ARE spending more on him than Aberdeen and Hibs ever possibly could? Thanks for clearing that up. I believe you're paying as large a wage for him as anyone will be spending in the window, in Scotland. Almost no club is increasing their wage spend for next season due to Covid, apart from St Mirren. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coventry Saint Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 The panic is tangible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: I believe you're paying as large a wage for him as anyone will be spending in the window, in Scotland. Almost no club is increasing their wage spend for next season due to Covid, apart from St Mirren. Christ - and this is only the one striker. The next one coming in is going to break you completely. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.