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The St. Mirren FC 2020/21 Winning the best of the rest thread.

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I'm glad everyone's forgotten about this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36559890

To be fair, I thought Tony was talking more pish about a top-six finish, and yet it was ours...we blew it, literally in the last minure, which meant losing out on goal difference. It wasn't just me who thought Tony was being ridiculous, either. I think he's right to be optimistic about our future, regardless of where we now finish this season. The wee guy, Dylan Reid, has just signed a new contract and hopefully we can get JDH to stay, too. 

The future's bright...it's black and white!

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2 hours ago, Ralstonite said:

I love Tony to bits, but this did make me genuinely laugh out loud. It's about the only bit of pleasure I have had this weekend, even the takeaway I bought with some of the compo was unappealing, as I felt guilty eating it. :(  I knew it...as someone else said, it's the hope that kills you. Elvis has got the right idea!

Hell no. I'm not having that.

Elvis doesn't have a happy molecule in his body. There's nothing about him that you should be trying to emulate.

Yesterday was tough. We were a bawhair away from achieving Tony's "fantasies". We need to accept Tony was just about right with his prediction instead of burying the guy after a 2 goal turnaround in the last couple of minutes of two separate matches.

St Johnstone got the rub of the green today and fair play to them but we have no business having a negative attitude after the season we've had so far. We could be in the position of Hamilton or Killie so a bit of perspective is needed by some in our support.

It's clear what we need to improve for next season so let's hope we get to see some of our younger kids on the pitch and see this season out as best we can.

There's still a Cup to be won for a start and we have a tranche of players now playing for their jobs over the next couple of months.

Let's look ahead and not back.

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1 hour ago, Ralstonite said:

I'm glad everyone's forgotten about this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36559890

To be fair, I thought Tony was talking more pish about a top-six finish, and yet it was ours...we blew it, literally in the last minure, which meant losing out on goal difference. It wasn't just me who thought Tony was being ridiculous, either. I think he's right to be optimistic about our future, regardless of where we now finish this season. The wee guy, Dylan Reid, has just signed a new contract and hopefully we can get JDH to stay, too. 

The future's bright...it's black and white!

For what it's worth, I couldn't see a problem with Tony's ambition or his target of 6th place. 4th place was always going to be a stretch but we had a real chance of ending 5th until it all blew up in the space of 2 minutes. I have always hated this idea that avoiding relegation is a success. We are no worse than any other team outside the current top 4. Livi have just finished 5th twice by the looks of it. There's no way hat team have any more right to have that level of success than us. We just have to believe it first and foremost and then go out and bust a gut to get it. Leave other teams to celebrate doing the bare minimum to survive.

We just don't have enough ambition in this country when it comes to football.

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2 hours ago, virginton said:

Leaving the mirth at the manner of your bottom six fate to one side to a moment - while some of what you state is no doubt true, next season's top flight will also have both i) a Hearts side that have chucked huge amounts at getting out of an easy Championship, with the clear purpose of hitting the ground running in the top flight again and ii) a Dundee United team that are likely to strengthen after establishing themselves at the top level this season. Kilmarnock have had a nightmare campaign until they appointed arguably the best provincial club manager in the country, and Motherwell are also likely to be somewhat less of a nick after clearing out their squad over the summer.

Put simply then, I'd suggest that this season was actually the best realistic set of conditions for Tony Fitzpatrick's top six dream to come true, and that it'll be much tougher for Saint Mirren, as well as Livingston and to a lesser extent Saint Johnstone, to replicate your league performance next season. Even if you progress in absolute terms, the relative placing of your squad in the league as a whole is likely to go somewhat backwards. That's the iron logic of professional football. 

It’s over, we’ve moved on, we’re playing other teams now, you’ve got to let it go.
We’ve not been together for a while and even when we were it was clear we had moved on from you.

I’m sorry you are feeling this way but it’s better for both of us if you just don’t come here anymore.

Take care of yourself.

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2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

We are no worse than any other team outside the current top 4. Livi have just finished 5th twice by the looks of it. There's no way hat team have any more right to have that level of success than us. 

816729191_imageproxy(2).gif.44cc7ff7a9c77eb640df6c91efbb9976.gif

 

 

You are, that's why you haven't finished in the top half of the big boys league in 36 (thirty six) years.

Edited by tree house tam

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6 hours ago, virginton said:

Leaving the mirth at the manner of your bottom six fate to one side to a moment - while some of what you state is no doubt true, next season's top flight will also have both i) a Hearts side that have chucked huge amounts at getting out of an easy Championship, with the clear purpose of hitting the ground running in the top flight again and ii) a Dundee United team that are likely to strengthen after establishing themselves at the top level this season. Kilmarnock have had a nightmare campaign until they appointed arguably the best provincial club manager in the country, and Motherwell are also likely to be somewhat less of a nick after clearing out their squad over the summer.

Put simply then, I'd suggest that this season was actually the best realistic set of conditions for Tony Fitzpatrick's top six dream to come true, and that it'll be much tougher for Saint Mirren, as well as Livingston and to a lesser extent Saint Johnstone, to replicate your league performance next season. Even if you progress in absolute terms, the relative placing of your squad in the league as a whole is likely to go somewhat backwards. That's the iron logic of professional football. 

While some of this may be true, to me you are falling into the trap of suggesting everyone will improve while St Mirren have peaked. If you are going to be so charitable to the other teams then you need to use such a broad brush across all the teams.

btw, could I just say I've love to see wee Gus push you into the playoffs.

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5 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Hell no. I'm not having that.

Elvis doesn't have a happy molecule in his body. There's nothing about him that you should be trying to emulate.

Yesterday was tough. We were a bawhair away from achieving Tony's "fantasies". We need to accept Tony was just about right with his prediction instead of burying the guy after a 2 goal turnaround in the last couple of minutes of two separate matches.

St Johnstone got the rub of the green today and fair play to them but we have no business having a negative attitude after the season we've had so far. We could be in the position of Hamilton or Killie so a bit of perspective is needed by some in our support.

It's clear what we need to improve for next season so let's hope we get to see some of our younger kids on the pitch and see this season out as best we can.

There's still a Cup to be won for a start and we have a tranche of players now playing for their jobs over the next couple of months.

Let's look ahead and not back.

Yes but Elvis posted Exactly what was going to happen before the game even started .

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September was the month that killed us, rather than February. 6 losses in a row, including Hibs, Dundee Utd and Kilmarnock


Which was when we had our well documented COVID issues and we were signing keepers on the morning of matches and not training during the week and other such madness. The fact we even mounted a top six challenge and went on a cup run after all that off field carry on and subsequent fixture pile up is commendable in itself. We’d certainly all have taken this problem then.
Think there’s been a bit of an over reaction, which is not unexpected. We missed out by two goals. As ‘problems’ go, this is the best problem I ever remember us having.
It’s less than four years ago that we went into the final game of the season with relegation to the third tier a distinct possibility. We avoided the League 1 relegation playoff in 2017 on goal difference thanks to drawing against a half arsed Hibs who had already won the league and were on the beach. That’s when we had real problems.
The progress from then to now has been fantastic, not fast enough for some it would seem but fantastic none the less. A bit of perspective is certainly required.
Going into the final five games with nothing to play for is a bit of a luxury - I certainly won’t be losing sleep if we finish 7th or 8th.
Gives us a good chance to give the youngsters some game time. Would like to see Dylan Reid get a few starts and I’m sure we will see Jamieson and Henderson too.
In terms of player turnover in the summer it should be the quietest pre season we’ve had for years, major surgery is not required. Priority has to be to get the likes of Fraser, Obika, Durmus and Doyle-Hayes - who are all out of contract in May - signed up. If we can add a couple of players in key positions and avoid pandemic related problems we will be in the mix for top six again next year. We’re doing just fine.

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1 hour ago, Ric said:

 

btw, could I just say I've love to see wee Gus push you into the playoffs.

We'd all love to see that, but I think they'll win enough to keep their heads above water.

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27 minutes ago, elvis said:

Yes but Elvis posted Exactly what was going to happen before the game even started .

A broken clock is still a broken clock, even if it occasionally tells the right time.

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Well that was a bit of a gut-wrencher yesterday but there's still the post split games and the Cup.

Targets 

  1. Must beat Accies in the Cup
  2. Mustn't finish below 8th in the league
  3. Oh and did I say we must beat Accies in the Cup - are there replays this season or is it played to a finish on the day?
  4. Mustn't lose to Accies in the league game
  5. Must beat Accies in the Cup
  6. Must beat Accies in the Cup
  7. Must beat Accies in the Cup

Not that I'm in anyway mentally unhinged......:hammer

Spoiler

Must beat Accies in the Cup

 

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7 hours ago, virginton said:

Leaving the mirth at the manner of your bottom six fate to one side to a moment - while some of what you state is no doubt true, next season's top flight will also have both i) a Hearts side that have chucked huge amounts at getting out of an easy Championship, with the clear purpose of hitting the ground running in the top flight again and ii) a Dundee United team that are likely to strengthen after establishing themselves at the top level this season. Kilmarnock have had a nightmare campaign until they appointed arguably the best provincial club manager in the country, and Motherwell are also likely to be somewhat less of a nick after clearing out their squad over the summer.

Put simply then, I'd suggest that this season was actually the best realistic set of conditions for Tony Fitzpatrick's top six dream to come true, and that it'll be much tougher for Saint Mirren, as well as Livingston and to a lesser extent Saint Johnstone, to replicate your league performance next season. Even if you progress in absolute terms, the relative placing of your squad in the league as a whole is likely to go somewhat backwards. That's the iron logic of professional football. 

Sad but true..

Edit - Not news to me.

Edited by btb

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Still sickened by the manner in which we chucked it away, but overall not too disappointed, we’ve still had a relatively good season with definite progression.

We didn’t miss out on top 6 just based on yesterday - dropping points at home to Hamilton last month; getting pumped 4-0 at home to a rank Celtic side; losing to St Johnstone back in January; a few draws with a shit Aberdeen side - those are the types of results that cost us.

We’ve been unable to beat Hamilton twice in the last month or so - we didn’t deserve top 6 for that alone.

Congratulations have to go to St Johnstone, they have strung together a brilliant streak of results in the last month to pip us. Fair play to them.

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Sad but true..
Edit - Not news to me.


The six best supported clubs in the country and therefore the six teams with the biggest budgets are the city clubs:
The Old Firm
Aberdeen & Dundee Utd
Hearts & Hibs
Therefore that ‘should’ be your top six most years. Has it ever happened? There’s always at least one of them going through a crisis. Four of them have spent more than one season outside the top flight in the last decade. Of the two that haven’t, Aberdeen were relative regulars in the bottom six before McInness arrived - he’s now left.
There will always be at least one of them making a mess of it and therefore be an opening for the other clubs to get in.

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2 minutes ago, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

Still sickened by the manner in which we chucked it away, but overall not too disappointed, we’ve still had a relatively good season with definite progression.

We didn’t miss out on top 6 just based on yesterday - dropping points at home to Hamilton last month; getting pumped 4-0 at home to a rank Celtic side; losing to St Johnstone back in January; a few draws with a shit Aberdeen side - those are the types of results that cost us.

We’ve been unable to beat Hamilton twice in the last month or so - we didn’t deserve top 6 for that alone.

Congratulations have to go to St Johnstone, they have strung together a brilliant streak of results in the last month to pip us. Fair play to them.

They absolutely deserve it. 

I'd happily take a chance of hovering around 5th - 9th every season if it keeps us away from the trapdoor.

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15 minutes ago, Lex said:

The six best supported clubs in the country and therefore the six teams with the biggest budgets are the city clubs:
The Old Firm
Aberdeen & Dundee Utd
Hearts & Hibs
Therefore that ‘should’ be your top six most years. Has it ever happened? There’s always at least one of them going through a crisis. Four of them have spent more than one season outside the top flight in the last decade. Of the two that haven’t, Aberdeen were relative regulars in the bottom six before McInness arrived - he’s now left.
There will always be at least one of them making a mess of it and therefore be an opening for the other clubs to get in.

I always put them in Tiers

  1.  The OF
  2.  Aberdeen, Hearts & Hibs
  3. The other F/T teams (I always put Dundee Utd. in this Tier)
  4.  The P/T teams

I daresay you're correct about one of the Tier 2 teams having a bad season but even so we still have to be one of the two best Tier 2/diddy teams to finish Top6 next season and VTs logic is correct it will be harder for us.

 

 

Edited by btb

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39 minutes ago, btb said:

I always put them in Tiers

  1.  The OF
  2.  Aberdeen, Hearts & Hibs
  3. The other F/T teams (I always put Dundee Utd. in this Tier)
  4.  The P/T teams

I daresay you're correct about one of the Tier 2 teams having a bad season but even so we still have to be one of the two best Tier 2/diddy teams to finish Top6 next season and VTs logic is correct it will be harder for us.

 

 

I've said this before, and I think last time I ended up in a wee debate with @djchapsticks, but Dundee Utd are in tier all of their own, below Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs, but above the rest.  Also I think the full-time clubs need separating into different tiers - we belong in a category with Falkirk, Motherwell, Kilmarnock, Partick Thistle, Dunfermline and Dundee; clubs that attract ~4,000 crowds.

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