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The St. Mirren FC 2023/24 thread


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27 minutes ago, elvis said:

Yes but Elvis posted Exactly what was going to happen before the game even started .

A broken clock is still a broken clock, even if it occasionally tells the right time.

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Well that was a bit of a gut-wrencher yesterday but there's still the post split games and the Cup.

Targets 

  1. Must beat Accies in the Cup
  2. Mustn't finish below 8th in the league
  3. Oh and did I say we must beat Accies in the Cup - are there replays this season or is it played to a finish on the day?
  4. Mustn't lose to Accies in the league game
  5. Must beat Accies in the Cup
  6. Must beat Accies in the Cup
  7. Must beat Accies in the Cup

Not that I'm in anyway mentally unhinged......:hammer

Spoiler

Must beat Accies in the Cup

 

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7 hours ago, virginton said:

Leaving the mirth at the manner of your bottom six fate to one side to a moment - while some of what you state is no doubt true, next season's top flight will also have both i) a Hearts side that have chucked huge amounts at getting out of an easy Championship, with the clear purpose of hitting the ground running in the top flight again and ii) a Dundee United team that are likely to strengthen after establishing themselves at the top level this season. Kilmarnock have had a nightmare campaign until they appointed arguably the best provincial club manager in the country, and Motherwell are also likely to be somewhat less of a nick after clearing out their squad over the summer.

Put simply then, I'd suggest that this season was actually the best realistic set of conditions for Tony Fitzpatrick's top six dream to come true, and that it'll be much tougher for Saint Mirren, as well as Livingston and to a lesser extent Saint Johnstone, to replicate your league performance next season. Even if you progress in absolute terms, the relative placing of your squad in the league as a whole is likely to go somewhat backwards. That's the iron logic of professional football. 

Sad but true..

Edit - Not news to me.

Edited by btb
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Still sickened by the manner in which we chucked it away, but overall not too disappointed, we’ve still had a relatively good season with definite progression.

We didn’t miss out on top 6 just based on yesterday - dropping points at home to Hamilton last month; getting pumped 4-0 at home to a rank Celtic side; losing to St Johnstone back in January; a few draws with a shit Aberdeen side - those are the types of results that cost us.

We’ve been unable to beat Hamilton twice in the last month or so - we didn’t deserve top 6 for that alone.

Congratulations have to go to St Johnstone, they have strung together a brilliant streak of results in the last month to pip us. Fair play to them.

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Sad but true..
Edit - Not news to me.


The six best supported clubs in the country and therefore the six teams with the biggest budgets are the city clubs:
The Old Firm
Aberdeen & Dundee Utd
Hearts & Hibs
Therefore that ‘should’ be your top six most years. Has it ever happened? There’s always at least one of them going through a crisis. Four of them have spent more than one season outside the top flight in the last decade. Of the two that haven’t, Aberdeen were relative regulars in the bottom six before McInness arrived - he’s now left.
There will always be at least one of them making a mess of it and therefore be an opening for the other clubs to get in.
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2 minutes ago, Shuggie_Murray7 said:

Still sickened by the manner in which we chucked it away, but overall not too disappointed, we’ve still had a relatively good season with definite progression.

We didn’t miss out on top 6 just based on yesterday - dropping points at home to Hamilton last month; getting pumped 4-0 at home to a rank Celtic side; losing to St Johnstone back in January; a few draws with a shit Aberdeen side - those are the types of results that cost us.

We’ve been unable to beat Hamilton twice in the last month or so - we didn’t deserve top 6 for that alone.

Congratulations have to go to St Johnstone, they have strung together a brilliant streak of results in the last month to pip us. Fair play to them.

They absolutely deserve it. 

I'd happily take a chance of hovering around 5th - 9th every season if it keeps us away from the trapdoor.

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15 minutes ago, Lex said:

The six best supported clubs in the country and therefore the six teams with the biggest budgets are the city clubs:
The Old Firm
Aberdeen & Dundee Utd
Hearts & Hibs
Therefore that ‘should’ be your top six most years. Has it ever happened? There’s always at least one of them going through a crisis. Four of them have spent more than one season outside the top flight in the last decade. Of the two that haven’t, Aberdeen were relative regulars in the bottom six before McInness arrived - he’s now left.
There will always be at least one of them making a mess of it and therefore be an opening for the other clubs to get in.

I always put them in Tiers

  1.  The OF
  2.  Aberdeen, Hearts & Hibs
  3. The other F/T teams (I always put Dundee Utd. in this Tier)
  4.  The P/T teams

I daresay you're correct about one of the Tier 2 teams having a bad season but even so we still have to be one of the two best Tier 2/diddy teams to finish Top6 next season and VTs logic is correct it will be harder for us.

 

 

Edited by btb
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39 minutes ago, btb said:

I always put them in Tiers

  1.  The OF
  2.  Aberdeen, Hearts & Hibs
  3. The other F/T teams (I always put Dundee Utd. in this Tier)
  4.  The P/T teams

I daresay you're correct about one of the Tier 2 teams having a bad season but even so we still have to be one of the two best Tier 2/diddy teams to finish Top6 next season and VTs logic is correct it will be harder for us.

 

 

I've said this before, and I think last time I ended up in a wee debate with @djchapsticks, but Dundee Utd are in tier all of their own, below Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs, but above the rest.  Also I think the full-time clubs need separating into different tiers - we belong in a category with Falkirk, Motherwell, Kilmarnock, Partick Thistle, Dunfermline and Dundee; clubs that attract ~4,000 crowds.

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1 minute ago, Ralstonite said:

I've said this before, and I think last time I ended up in a wee debate with @djchapsticks, but Dundee Utd are in tier all of their own, below Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs, but above the rest.  Also I think the full-time clubs need separating into different tiers - we belong in a category with Falkirk, Motherwell, Kilmarnock, Partick Thistle, Dunfermline and Dundee; clubs that attract ~4,000 crowds.

No place at the table for the Fakes or Morton - that's the way uhu, uhu, I like it!

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43 minutes ago, btb said:

...and VTs logic is correct...

Ah, now you see.. that's where your problem lies.. ;)

It's simply not true that this was our best chance of top 6, that came when Rangers, Hearts and Hbs were all in the first division. Guess what happened that year!

Seriously though, despite being (arguably) hit the worst by Covid and having to cram in loads of games into a matter of weeks, we still managed to make a strong case for top 6 and beat both Celtic, Aberdeen and Rangers in the season. I see absolutely no reason to be despondent about next season. Sure, the inclusion of Hearts might throw an extra team into the mix but even with a big budget they'll still have Neilson in charge.

 

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4 minutes ago, Ric said:

Ah, now you see.. that's where your problem lies.. ;)

It's simply not true that this was our best chance of top 6, that came when Rangers, Hearts and Hbs were all in the first division. Guess what happened that year!

Seriously though, despite being (arguably) hit the worst by Covid and having to cram in loads of games into a matter of weeks, we still managed to make a strong case for top 6 and beat both Celtic, Aberdeen and Rangers in the season. I see absolutely no reason to be despondent about next season. Sure, the inclusion of Hearts might throw an extra team into the mix but even with a big budget they'll still have Neilson in charge.

VT wasn't arguing this season was our best chance "ever" for a Top6 finish simply that next season would be harder.

Not reading his post thoroughly.. that's where your problem lies.. ;)

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48 minutes ago, btb said:

VT wasn't arguing this season was our best chance "ever" for a Top6 finish simply that next season would be harder.

Not reading his post thoroughly.. that's where your problem lies.. ;)

The way I read it, it was both the best chance and it would be harder. Personally I don't agree but we'll only be able to judge some time near the end of next season.

10 hours ago, virginton said:

Put simply then, I'd suggest that this season was actually the best realistic set of conditions for Tony Fitzpatrick's top six dream to come true.

I'm sure if he sees the notification he could clarify.

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There's definitely a chance we can build on this season and make top 6 next year, equally there's a chance we could have a poor season and be in another relegation scrap. 

Since the split was introduced there have been lots of smaller sides who've made it into the top 6. The idea that we can't do it, or that this season was our best ever chance, isn't something that's worth taking particularly seriously. 

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1 hour ago, houston_bud said:

There's definitely a chance we can build on this season and make top 6 next year, equally there's a chance we could have a poor season and be in another relegation scrap. 

Since the split was introduced there have been lots of smaller sides who've made it into the top 6. The idea that we can't do it, or that this season was our best ever chance, isn't something that's worth taking particularly seriously. 

There is a chance like there is a chance for every side. One things for sure is St Johnstone will not be as bad next season, you'll need to be hoping Livingston and Hearts are.

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7 hours ago, Ric said:

Ah, now you see.. that's where your problem lies.. ;)

It's simply not true that this was our best chance of top 6, that came when Rangers, Hearts and Hbs were all in the first division. Guess what happened that year!

Seriously though, despite being (arguably) hit the worst by Covid and having to cram in loads of games into a matter of weeks, we still managed to make a strong case for top 6 and beat both Celtic, Aberdeen and Rangers in the season. I see absolutely no reason to be despondent about next season. Sure, the inclusion of Hearts might throw an extra team into the mix but even with a big budget they'll still have Neilson in charge.

 

Neilson is a shitehawk who'll dredge up points. They'll be in the top 6 battle.

United will spend a fortune this Summer, as will Hearts and probably Hibs. Kilmarnock with a full season of TW should be challenging, Motherwell sorted out should be too.

Aberdeen might depend on their manager but they've been woeful this season and still cruised to the top half.

Livingston have made it twice now and aren't getting any weaker.

We'll hopefully decide to run with more than 18 players next season too, so should have more quality to come off the bench. Fate might depend on who gets sold/who stays though.

It'll be a far harder division next season than this, especially with Celtic presumably strengthening and not giving away as many soft points.

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14 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Neilson is a shitehawk who'll dredge up points. They'll be in the top 6 battle.

United will spend a fortune this Summer, as will Hearts and probably Hibs. Kilmarnock with a full season of TW should be challenging, Motherwell sorted out should be too.

Aberdeen might depend on their manager but they've been woeful this season and still cruised to the top half.

Livingston have made it twice now and aren't getting any weaker.

We'll hopefully decide to run with more than 18 players next season too, so should have more quality to come off the bench. Fate might depend on who gets sold/who stays though.

It'll be a far harder division next season than this, especially with Celtic presumably strengthening and not giving away as many soft points.

A lot of assumptions being made in that post, while making no provision for us to strengthen.

The only thing that is guaranteed is that Hearts will be back up.

 

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4 minutes ago, Ric said:

A lot of assumptions being made in that post, while making no provision for us to strengthen.

The only thing that is guaranteed is that Hearts will be back up.

 

Nah they're all facts. St Mirren will strengthen too, obviously, I was solely focusing on clubs aside from you to try and highlight the battle that it will be next season.

I'm hoping Hamilton/County survive for that reason. Last thing needed is for there to be no real relegation favourite, as it becomes harder to break poor runs and you find that you're fucked.

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3 minutes ago, Ric said:

A lot of assumptions being made in that post, while making no provision for us to strengthen.

The only thing that is guaranteed is that Hearts will be back up.

I'd be disappointed if we're not stronger up front next season, especially with a fit Brophy. 

The two strikers we signed in January scoring a grand total of zero goals clearly played a part in us falling short of this time round.

Really Doris Day summed up next season best - Que Sera Sera!

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