The St. Mirren FC 2023/24 thread

[pozbaird]

[Billy Jean King]

Not doing very well out of this whole Covid thing are you lads?

Who is doing well out of Covid ? Bit of a strange remark. It seems to be annoying some supporters that the majority of Saints fans are not in some sort of mental tail spin at today's events. Worse things happen at sea as the saying goes and as I stated earlier I don't expect this to stop us staying up. Footballing wise it's been a positive few weeks and there is little we as fans can do about off field happenings. Best just to take it all in your stride, roll up the sleeves and get on with things. It's what most sensible thinking folk do.

[djchapsticks]

33 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

Usually the expression 'taking it well' on here is straight sarcasm, but I have to say the majority of Midden fans are taking this pretty well...

It's pretty straightforward: if protocols are in place, you breach them, and nobody gets Covid... you probably get away with it (and I'm sure a few clubs have). If you're unfortunate enough to have an outbreak, though, you're done.

Huge wake-up call for everybody.

Yeah. The majority of anger seems to be in the 'what about Aberdeen/Celtic' camp but not so much my own issue. 

The only part I'd like to know is why a club's responsibility extends to a club's players carpooling together on their way to or from work (ie, not on works time or premises) but apparently not going to a pub together post work. Both are surely of the same level of responsibility placed on the club, be that all, none or whatever amount in between. 

I'd also have expected that when these rules were set out, a clear guideline of potential punishments would also have been set out the make clubs aware of consequences if you break the rules or breach protocols. This doesn't appear to have happened here and both clubs have gone into it with no knowledge of what may happen as an outcome and it seems that both have been dished out an ad hoc punishment that has completely hammered them, despite both clubs putting their hands up and admitting to wrongdoing. 

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Ralstonite said:

We admitted to breaches of the Covid protocols on the coach and at a pre-match meal! We also admitted our liability. Aberdeen players got together and went to the pub, FFS!

Hard to understand the difference between St Mirren players being given club permission to breach rules during working hours/game build up, and Aberdeen players going to a pub at 10 o'clock at night without permission. 

Real mindfuck trying to work out why the punishments are different.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

2 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

Yeah. The majority of anger seems to be in the 'what about Aberdeen/Celtic' camp but not so much my own issue. 

The only part I'd like to know is why a club's responsibility extends to a club's players carpooling together on their way to or from work (ie, not on works time or premises) but apparently not going to a pub together post work. Both are surely of the same level of responsibility placed on the club, be that all, none or whatever amount in between. 

I'd also have expected that when these rules were set out, a clear guideline of potential punishments would also have been set out the make clubs aware of consequences if you break the rules or breach protocols. This doesn't appear to have happened here and both clubs have gone into it with no knowledge of what may happen as an outcome and it seems that both have been dished out an ad hoc punishment that has completely hammered them, despite both clubs putting their hands up and admitting to wrongdoing. 

My guess (and it is a guess) is that protocols for one (training and matchdays) are clearly set out, while the other ('post-work') is purely guidelines issued to players; club explicitly responsible for the former, players for the latter.

On the second point, I think it's fair to say all clubs involved will have known that there was likely to be low tolerance for fixture backlog due to protocol breaches; any other punishment would look like a lame slap on the wrist. So I don't think it's harsh; it's actually fairly predictable.

Test for the authorities is now fairness and consistency in relation to any future breaches (by anyone); let's see...

[Valentino Bolognese]

9 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

The only part I'd like to know is why a club's responsibility extends to a club's players carpooling together on their way to or from work (ie, not on works time or premises) but apparently not going to a pub together post work. Both are surely of the same level of responsibility placed on the club, be that all, none or whatever amount in between. 

Have some sympathy with this question but I would have thought travel to the game was 'work time'. They may also have been using company cars, or cars subsidised by the club. 

[btb]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Hard to understand the difference between St Mirren players being given club permission to breach rules during working hours/game build up, and Aberdeen players going to a pub at 10 o'clock at night without permission. 

Real mindfuck trying to work out why the punishments are different.

I think the clue is in the phrases highlighted, we were aware of the breaches and chose to ignore them whereas Aberdeen would not have been aware of the night out till the story emerged in the media.

[djchapsticks]

1 minute ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

My guess (and it is a guess) is that protocols for one (training and matchdays) are clearly set out, while the other ('post-work') is purely guidelines issued to players; club explicitly responsible for the former, players for the latter.

On the second point, I think it's fair to say all clubs involved will have known that there was likely to be low tolerance for fixture backlog due to protocol breaches; any other punishment would look like a lame slap on the wrist. So I don't think it's harsh; it's actually fairly predictable.

Test for the authorities is now fairness and consistency in relation to any future breaches (by anyone); let's see...

Understandable, but my point being is that surely carpooling would also be falling under pre-work and post-work guidelines? Unless they were doing some sort of Top Gear style training ground shenanigans in souped-up Corsas.  

I mean, you'd like to *think* that if 4 players bundled out of a car coming into training, someone at the club would have had a fucking stern word if it's been noticed. By the same token, you'd like to think someone within a club would have taken 7 or 8 lads who were talking about going to the pub after the game aside and told them to rap that pish.

[djchapsticks]

4 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

Have some sympathy with this question but I would have thought travel to the game was 'work time'. They may also have been using company cars, or cars subsidised by the club. 

Another fair point. I mean, I'm in no doubt that we're in the wrong. 

My point is more focussing on those who will argue that the Aberdeen situation was different because they as a club had no responsibility over what happened earlier in the season.

[Ric]

So who's our game in hand against?

[RandomGuy.]

5 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

Have some sympathy with this question but I would have thought travel to the game was 'work time'. They may also have been using company cars, or cars subsidised by the club. 

As far as I know, clubs were meant to have allocated spaces for every individual player who has to drive to training, and for a while it was staggered entry times for each player too. I don't know if that's changed over time though.

[djchapsticks]

Just now, Ric said:

So who's our game in hand against?

Celtic, hopefully a Neil Lennon led Celtic so we can at least pull 3 points back...

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, djchapsticks said:

Another fair point. I mean, I'm in no doubt that we're in the wrong. 

My point is more focussing on those who will argue that the Aberdeen situation was different because they as a club had no responsibility over what happened earlier in the season.

Its a case of proof, sadly.

Easy for Aberdeen to claim they had no knowledge of a night out, hard for St Mirren to say they had no knowledge of breaches travelling to a match on the team bus(es).

[The Ghost of B A R P]

6 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

Understandable, but my point being is that surely carpooling would also be falling under pre-work and post-work guidelines? Unless they were doing some sort of Top Gear style training ground shenanigans in souped-up Corsas.  

I mean, you'd like to *think* that if 4 players bundled out of a car coming into training, someone at the club would have had a fucking stern word if it's been noticed. By the same token, you'd like to think someone within a club would have taken 7 or 8 lads who were talking about going to the pub after the game aside and told them to rap that pish.

Aye, but there will be black-and-white rules on 'Travel to training/matches'... no one would have thought there would be any need to put in sections on 'Going out on the pish after getting dicked off Rangers' or 'Flying to Spain for a ride'... Who'd be _that_ stupit?

[Ric]

6 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

Celtic, hopefully a Neil Lennon led Celtic so we can at least pull 3 points back...

Is it? I wonder why it was postponed from before.

[HooseLee]

What'll happen if you go down because of a two goal difference?  One more thing.  Do you mind if I sit in on this just for enjoyment? 

[djchapsticks]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Its a case of proof, sadly.

Easy for Aberdeen to claim they had no knowledge of a night out, hard for St Mirren to say they had no knowledge of breaches travelling to a match on the team bus(es).

Agreed.

In terms of the disciplinary process, we shot ourselves in the foot the moment we got pulled and THEN hired people to resolve the issue. 

I mean, if there was no issue there and we were just unlucky, why hire people to fix it? Had we refuted any of the charges, it would rightly have been the first thing asked by the disciplinary committee. 

I tried defending it as bad luck, continuation of the original outbreak etc. several weeks ago but as time's gone on, it's obvious that we've run this absolutely shambolically. Are ourselves and Killie the only clubs to run it as poorly as this? You can bet your bottom dollar that's a 'no' but as always, we seem to be the daft c***s that get caught.

[djchapsticks]

1 minute ago, Ric said:

Is it? I wonder why it was postponed from before.

They had their Scottish cup semi final to play the weekend this was meant to be played.

The *other* postponed game was our 2-1 home defeat where Celtic got their equaliser from a player who hadn't signed for them at the point when the game should have originally been played.

[FTOF]

1 minute ago, HooseLee said:

What'll happen if you go down because of a two goal difference?  One more thing.  Do you mind if I sit in on this just for enjoyment? 

I suppose we could always argue that these rules weren't in place at the start of the season and go to the top judges in the land, whilst crying floods of salty tears on the way.

Oops! Forgot some pathetic cunts had already tried that and failed magnificently.

[Ric]

Just now, djchapsticks said:

They had their Scottish cup semi final to play the weekend this was meant to be played.

The *other* postponed game was our 2-1 home defeat where Celtic got their equaliser from a player who hadn't signed for them at the point when the game should have originally been played.

Ta, I was sure we'd played their "covid postponement" game from before but couldn't remember why this one didn't go ahead.