djchapsticks Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 Conor McCarthy now talking up playing in front of bigger crowds in Scotland and Irish fans on Twitter losing it. I'm at stage I'm not even bothered just now if these boys are any good and I hope we raid Ireland for their best players every January. The teeth-gnashing that us being so mediocre and yet still nabbing some of their league's apparent brightest talent has caused is absolutely brilliant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston_bud Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 5 hours ago, craigkillie said: This isn't really true at all. The only Irish sides who typically make any sort of progress in Europe are their champions, who get two bites of the cherry because they get a go at the Europa League once they've been pumped out of the Champions League by the first half-decent team they face. If Aberdeen, Motherwell, Hibs, Killie or even St Mirren were to enter the Champions League at the stage where they do then I'd expect them to get very close to the Playoff Round too. Kilmarnock got beat off Connah's Quay mate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Right, and if we'd been champions of Scotland and had lost to a joke team like that in the Champions League, we'd have dropped down into the Europa League and had a second chance to put things right. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 The summer league works to their benefit in the diddy rounds as well. Fully fit after half a season when they come up against the assembled plumbers XI of Montenegro while Scottish teams are still half a dozen signings short of a proper squad and blowing out their arse in the 40 degree heat in August. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston_bud Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 minute ago, craigkillie said: Right, and if we'd been champions of Scotland and had lost to a joke team like that in the Champions League, we'd have dropped down into the Europa League and had a second chance to put things right. The last Scottish team outside Rangers and Celtic to reach the group stages of the Europa League were Aberdeen, they actually progressed from the group stages. That must've been over 10 years ago as Lee Mair was talking about playing in that team on Off the Ball recently. How many Scottish teams have even won a tie in Europe in that time? Dundalk got to the group stages two seasons ago. I take your point that they get two attempts if they're the Champions, I also think summer football helps them in the qualifiers. I'm not arguing that the league of Ireland is better (It's not) but from the point of view of an Irish football fan I can see why they feel that one of the top players in their league could've made a bigger step. I'd be curious to see the amount of European ties that Irish teams have won in the last few years compared to Scottish teams outwith Celtic and Rangers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Coventry Saint said: It seems Lego are now doing models of stadiums... There's a belting St Mirren Park joke there somewhere but I'll leave it to others to work that one out. I worked it out in Photoshop and Lego a couple of years back..... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) Taking the last decade as an example, Scottish clubs (excluding Celtic and Rangers) have won 17 ties out of 45 (37.78%), while Irish clubs have won 23 ties out of 61 (37.70%), so the Scottish win percentage is higher by a minuscule amount. This is despite Irish sides generally having to enter a bit earlier and thus having more easier games. Dundalk got to the group stages by winning two matches (as did Shamrock a few years earlier), one of which was against Icelandic oppositon. Aberdeen (4 times), Hibs and Motherwell have both also won two ties in a season in the same period without qualifying for the group stage - this is the main advantage of being champions and getting another go at things. Scotland (W17 L28) Aberdeen (W9 L6) wins - Daugava Riga, Groningen, Shkendija, Rijeka, Fola Esch, Ventspils, Siroki Brijeg, RoPS, Chikhura Sachkhere losses - Real Sociedad, Kairat, Maribor, Apollon Limassol, Burnley, Rijeka Dundee United (L3) losses - AEK Athens, Slask Wroclaw, Dynamo Moscow Hearts (W2 L3) wins - Paksi, Infonent losses - Tottenham, Liverpool, Birkirkara Hibs (W2 L4) wins - Runavik, Asteras Tripolis losses - Maribor, Malmo, Brondby, Molde Inverness (L1) losses - Astra Giurgiu Killie (L1) losses - Connah's Quay Motherwell (W2 L5) wins - Breidablik, Aalesunds losses - Odense, Panathinaikos (CL), Levante, Kuban Krasnodar, Stjarnan St Johnstone (W2 L5) wins - Rosenborg, Luzern losses - Eskisehirspor, Minsk, Spartak Trnava, Alashkert, Trakai Ireland (W23 L38) Bohemians (L3) losses - TNS (CL), Olimpia Ljubljana, Akureyri Cork City (W3 L5) wins - Linfield, Hacken, Levadia Tallinn losses - Legia Warsaw (CL), Genk, AEK Larnaca, Rosenborg, Progres Niederkorn Derry City (W1 L3) wins - Aberystwyth losses - Shakhtyor Soligorsk, Mitdjylland, Dinamo Minsk Dundalk (W6 L8) wins - FH (CL), BATE Borisov (CL), Riga FC (CL), Grevenmacher, Jeunesse Esch, Levadia Tallinn losses - BATE Borisov (CL), Legia Warsaw (CL), Rosenborg (CL), Qarabag (CL), Levski Sofia, Hajduk Split, AEK Larnaca, Slovan Bratislava Drogheda United (L1) losses - Malmo Shamrock Rovers (W6 L8) wins - Flora Tallinn (CL), Bnei Yehuda, Partizan, Progres Niederkorn, Stjarnan, Brann losses - Copenhagen (CL), Ekranas (CL), Juventus, Odd, RoPS, Mlada Boleslav, AIK, Apollon Sligo Rovers (W1 L4) wins - Banga losses - Molde (CL), Vorskla Poltava, Spartak Trnava, Rosenborg Sporting Fingal (L1) losses - Maritimo St Patrick's (W5 L7) wins - IBV (x2), Shakhter Karagandy, Siroki Brijeg, Jeunesse Esch losses - Legia Warsaw (CL), Karpaty Lviv, Hannover, Zalgiris, Skonto Riga, Dinamo Minsk, IFK Norkopping UCD (W1 L1) wins - F91 Dudelange losses - Slovan Bratislava Edited January 14, 2020 by craigkillie 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Maybe the folk in Ireland think we’re a bit diddy for their boy. Maybe we are a bit diddy, but even if we are, their boy will have a chance to go down the Kenny McLean, John McGinn, Lewis Morgan and Stevie Mallan route to less diddy things. That’s my serious response out the way, now to my gut response - fcuk them and their truly diddy league. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coventry Saint Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 53 minutes ago, pozbaird said: I worked it out in Photoshop and Lego a couple of years back..... Love it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 58 minutes ago, houston_bud said: I'd be curious to see the amount of European ties that Irish teams have won in the last few years compared to Scottish teams outwith Celtic and Rangers. Fairly quiet day at work so had a look into this in a bit of detail. Using only Europa League qualifiers (not group stages) and discounting Celtic and Rangers I make the figures as such from the last three years (Apologies if I've miscounted) Scottish teams: Played 11 ties. Won 5. 45% win rate Irish teams: Played 15 ties. Won 4. 36% win rate. Scotland has the better record but how does that translate into expectations? What about against all leagues placed higher? Scotland: Played 2. Lost 2. Ireland: Played 12. Won 1. 8% win rate Not a fair comparison. There are only a handful of leagues rates lower than the Irish league whereas only one Scottish club (Aberdeen) has faced clubs from a higher rated country. Weirdly one tie v Burnley Aberdeen came out of it well and the other, v Apollon of Cyprus, came out disappointed. Shamrock Rovers managed a win over Brann a few years ago but, that aside, Irish teams consistently fail. I've no doubt if Scottish teams had 12 bites against teams from Cyprus, Austria and the Czech Republic we'd have a few more wins under our belts. And against nations places lower? Scotland: Played 9 Won 5. 56% win rate Ireland: Played 3. Won 3 Ireland obviously doing better against the minnows but this is just clubs from Iceland and Estonia. Ireland is so lowly ranked it would genuinely be embarrassing for them to lose to almost anyone ranked below them and the haven't been up against the bigger hitters in that area like Georgian or Finnish teams. Scotland's win rate shows that we struggle against leagues we're "expected" to do better against but, St Johnstone losing to a Lithuanian team and Killie's Welsh humiliation aside, the defeats are against similarly ranked leagues like Norway and Croatia and the like. Conclusion: Irish teams are shite and fail against any countries that have professional footballers. Scottish teams do, generally, as expected with the odd humiliation thrown in for a laugh. Irish teams are too shite to actually be humiliated in Europe as the countries that they would class as minnows: Jersey, the Isle of Wight, Monaco, Millport, etc. aren't UEFA members. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston_bud Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 36 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Taking the last decade as an example, Scottish clubs (excluding Celtic and Rangers) have won 17 ties out of 45 (37.78%), while Irish clubs have won 23 ties out of 61 (37.70%), so the Scottish win percentage is highest by a minuscule amount. This is despite Irish sides generally having to enter a bit earlier and thus having more easier games. Dundalk got to the group stages by winning two matches (as did Shamrock a few years earlier), one of which was against Icelandic oppositon. Aberdeen (4 times), Hibs and Motherwell have both also won two ties in a season in the same period without qualifying for the group stage - this is the main advantage of being champions and getting another go at things. Scotland (W17 L28) Aberdeen (W9 L6) wins - Daugava Riga, Groningen, Shkendija, Rijeka, Fola Esch, Ventspils, Siroki Brijeg, RoPS, Chikhura Sachkhere losses - Real Sociedad, Kairat, Maribor, Apollon Limassol, Burnley, Rijeka Dundee United (L3) losses - AEK Athens, Slask Wroclaw, Dynamo Moscow Hearts (W2 L3) wins - Paksi, Infonent losses - Tottenham, Liverpool, Birkirkara Hibs (W2 L4) wins - Runavik, Asteras Tripolis losses - Maribor, Malmo, Brondby, Molde Inverness (L1) losses - Astra Giurgiu Killie (L1) losses - Connah's Quay Motherwell (W2 L5) wins - Breidablik, Aalesunds losses - Odense, Panathinaikos (CL), Levante, Kuban Krasnodar, Stjarnan St Johnstone (W2 L5) wins - Rosenborg, Luzern losses - Eskisehirspor, Minsk, Spartak Trnava, Alashkert, Trakai Ireland (W23 L38) Bohemians (L3) losses - TNS (CL), Olimpia Ljubljana, Akureyri Cork City (W3 L5) wins - Linfield, Hacken, Levadia Tallinn losses - Legia Warsaw (CL), Genk, AEK Larnaca, Rosenborg, Progres Niederkorn Derry City (W1 L3) wins - Aberystwyth losses - Shakhtyor Soligorsk, Mitdjylland, Dinamo Minsk Dundalk (W6 L8) wins - FH (CL), BATE Borisov (CL), Riga FC (CL), Grevenmacher, Jeunesse Esch, Levadia Tallinn losses - BATE Borisov (CL), Legia Warsaw (CL), Rosenborg (CL), Qarabag (CL), Levski Sofia, Hajduk Split, AEK Larnaca, Slovan Bratislava Drogheda United (L1) losses - Malmo Shamrock Rovers (W6 L8) wins - Flora Tallinn (CL), Bnei Yehuda, Partizan, Progres Niederkorn, Stjarnan, Brann losses - Copenhagen (CL), Ekranas (CL), Juventus, Odd, RoPS, Mlada Boleslav, AIK, Apollon Sligo Rovers (W1 L4) wins - Banga losses - Molde (CL), Vorskla Poltava, Spartak Trnava, Rosenborg Sporting Fingal (L1) losses - Maritimo St Patrick's (W5 L7) wins - IBV (x2), Shakhter Karagandy, Siroki Brijeg, Jeunesse Esch losses - Legia Warsaw (CL), Karpaty Lviv, Hannover, Zalgiris, Skonto Riga, Dinamo Minsk, IFK Norkopping UCD (W1 L1) wins - F91 Dudelange losses - Slovan Bratislava That's interesting. Cheers. So my 'Irish teams generally do better' isn't really the case. That's was my perception and I know that is the perception of a lot of Irish fans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston_bud Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: Fairly quiet day at work so had a look into this in a bit of detail. Using only Europa League qualifiers (not group stages) and discounting Celtic and Rangers I make the figures as such from the last three years (Apologies if I've miscounted) Scottish teams: Played 11 ties. Won 5. 45% win rate Irish teams: Played 15 ties. Won 4. 36% win rate. Scotland has the better record but how does that translate into expectations? What about against all leagues placed higher? Scotland: Played 2. Lost 2. Ireland: Played 12. Won 1. 8% win rate Not a fair comparison. There are only a handful of leagues rates lower than the Irish league whereas only one Scottish club (Aberdeen) has faced clubs from a higher rated country. Weirdly one tie v Burnley Aberdeen came out of it well and the other, v Apollon of Cyprus, came out disappointed. Shamrock Rovers managed a win over Brann a few years ago but, that aside, Irish teams consistently fail. I've no doubt if Scottish teams had 12 bites against teams from Cyprus, Austria and the Czech Republic we'd have a few more wins under our belts. And against nations places lower? Scotland: Played 9 Won 5. 56% win rate Ireland: Played 3. Won 3 Ireland obviously doing better against the minnows but this is just clubs from Iceland and Estonia. Ireland is so lowly ranked it would genuinely be embarrassing for them to lose to almost anyone ranked below them and the haven't been up against the bigger hitters in that area like Georgian or Finnish teams. Scotland's win rate shows that we struggle against leagues we're "expected" to do better against but, St Johnstone losing to a Lithuanian team and Killie's Welsh humiliation aside, the defeats are against similarly ranked leagues like Norway and Croatia and the like. Conclusion: Irish teams are shite and fail against any countries that have professional footballers. Scottish teams do, generally, as expected with the odd humiliation thrown in for a laugh. Irish teams are too shite to actually be humiliated in Europe as the countries that they would class as minnows: Jersey, the Isle of Wight, Monaco, Millport, etc. aren't UEFA members. Interesting, and I agree with your conclusion although I still think that Scottish teams outwith Celtic and Rangers do much poorer than we expect. I take the UEFA rankings but really we should be competing much better against teams from the likes of Norway and Croatia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 minute ago, houston_bud said: Interesting, and I agree with your conclusion although I still think that Scottish teams outwith Celtic and Rangers do much poorer than we expect. I take the UEFA rankings but really we should be competing much better against teams from the likes of Norway and Croatia. The real barometer of expectation shouldn't really be co-efficient or rankings but wage bill. It's, time and time again, proven to be the only real barometer of how clubs do. The odd anomaly here and there aside if you spend more on wages you'll be higher in the leagues. Even transfer outlay means nothing compared to it. What's the wage bill of Rijeka compared to Aberdeen or St Pats compared to Norkopping? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston_bud Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: What's the wage bill of Rijeka compared to Aberdeen or St Pats compared to Norkopping? I have absolutely no idea. Aberdeen get bigger attendances than teams in either Norway or Croatia how that fits into wages I'm not sure. Anyway, I can see why fans of Dundalk and other teams might be a little underwhelmed by McCarthy moving to us. That said it's definitely a step up for him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 16 minutes ago, houston_bud said: I have absolutely no idea. Aberdeen get bigger attendances than teams in either Norway or Croatia how that fits into wages I'm not sure. Anyway, I can see why fans of Dundalk and other teams might be a little underwhelmed by McCarthy moving to us. That said it's definitely a step up for him. I can see why too. It's called delusion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAD Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 I love how according to these Irish boys on Twitter, on one hand the league of Ireland is better than the Scottish Prem, but on the other both these guys will be back in the Irish league next season with their "tail between their legs." There is only one scenario that sees these boys back in Ireland and it isn't them realising they are far too good for St Mirren and missing the bright lights of Dundalk. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dublin_bud Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) It's interesting. I used to get pelters from a Liverpool supporter from Navan, Co. Meath for being a Saints fan as "outside the Old Firm, Scottish football is shite". When pressed as to why he supported Liverpool over his "local" teams Dundalk or Drogheda, the response was "because they're shite too". I'd take anything an Irish fan says regarding the standard of any league with a MASSIVE pinch of salt Edited January 14, 2020 by dublin_bud 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuits Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 https://www.the42.ie/jim-goodwin-st-mirren-4960982-Jan2020/Good interview with the gaffer 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 On 12/01/2020 at 22:09, djchapsticks said: Still seeing a few mutterings on Twitter from Rangers fans that Glenn Middleton is heading to us on loan. Would be an interesting one. Looking now like this is a goer and could be done as soon as weekend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 hours ago, djchapsticks said: Looking now like this is a goer and could be done as soon as weekend. Slightly surprised at this, thought we had enough cover in the wide areas with Durmus, McAllister, McGrath and Magennis also able to play there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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