The St. Mirren FC 2023/24 thread

[jimmy boo]

Hello my good friend jumping in with both feet AGAIN. Let's see if 2 million has been blown. My humble opinion it has. You obviously think it's not. November published accounts will put this to rest. 

I wish this had been mentioned before. I must write it down.

[Demented Zebra]

38 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

YOU started this interaction with ME, you fucking drunken mess.

I just referenced to Tam the bud that Stu was taking the piss out of you... I didn't offer an opinion or stance on it and you started talking to me.

Oh dear you are being rattled these day's. Above you wrote - he is taking the piss out of Demented Zebra . Here is a bone go chew and calme down. 

[djchapsticks]

7 minutes ago, Demented Zebra said:

Above you wrote - he is taking the piss out of Demented Zebra .

Yes... That's exactly what I said in the post you quoted. 

You seem to have severe trouble with comprehension and are extremely confused. 

[Dindeleux]

Broadfoot was one of our top earners. Whilst I assume he will be dropping pay due to his age I would also assume he will now become one of your top earners.

[Stu]

6 hours ago, Yflab said:

Have you a link for this?

No link but here's what was in the Record. Straight to the point on Stubbs 

GORDON SCOTT admits he was happy to break St Mirren’s transfer kitty as he trusts the guy spending it.

Eleven players pitched up this summer, 10 of them after Jim Goodwin came in.

But unlike last summer under Alan Stubbs, who recruited 11 of 13 additions before being axed less than three months in, Scott feels this outlay was worth it.

The chairman said: “Alan arrived as a really good manager but his recruitment was really bad.

“We got to the point that we had spent all our money and you were thinking, ‘We’re in big trouble here.’ We lost faith in the guy to spend the money and it was like flinging good money after bad. Now with Jim we are over budget but you can see what he’s brought in and that he’s looking to build a squad for the future.

“We’ve only brought two guys in on loan and the rest have been permanent deals.

“Loans are just throwing money away. We want it to be less frantic this year, which is why we’ve signed guys on two or three-year deals. We took our time to get the right guys in rather than panicking and bringing players in for the sake of it.”

Scott was at the launch of SPFL Trust 4-4-2 Reading Challenge that inspires children to read books in return for match tickets.

[tam the bud]

Straight forward question for the Zebra. Are you saying the club will be in debt to 2 millions or we have wasted 2 millions but not in debt ? Now think carefully before you answer.

[Demented Zebra]

20 minutes ago, tam the bud said:

Straight forward question for the Zebra. Are you saying the club will be in debt to 2 millions or we have wasted 2 millions but not in debt ? Now think carefully before you answer.

Like  all of us we dont really know the bottom line until the accounts are published.  I dont believe we are in debt. I have a feeling after hearing rumblings that 2 million brought in on transfers has been mostly used up. Heard true or false Oran leaving had nothing to do with travel or moving over full time to Scotland.  Weeks later Oran went public telling Gordon to stop telling lies as to why he left the club that it had nothing to do with commuting.  If it did not stop he would take it further legally.  That's quite a statement. Of course it could be Gordon did not like the direction Oran wanted to take the club. Or a personality clash.  Can I ask you a question? If two million has been used up that was brought in by transfers would you be surprised ? If we are doing well in the league and two million has been blown when the accounts are published I think it will no big deal with fans. So no debt but a lot of money wasted maybe. Stones be thrown I hate Gordon very untrue. I want the club to be run correctly dont we all. The ticket online system is not fit for purpose. Gordon said it would be fixed for this season. You go out and tell hundreds of fans this will all be fixed for next season. It's still the same system . 

[Insaintee]

11 hours ago, Dindeleux said:

Broadfoot was one of our top earners. Whilst I assume he will be dropping pay due to his age I would also assume he will now become one of your top earners.

nah mate we're made of money

[tam the bud]

Like  all of us we dont really know the bottom line until the accounts are published.  I dont believe we are in debt. I have a feeling after hearing rumblings that 2 million brought in on transfers has been mostly used up. Heard true or false Oran leaving had nothing to do with travel or moving over full time to Scotland.  Weeks later Oran went public telling Gordon to stop telling lies as to why he left the club that it had nothing to do with commuting.  If it did not stop he would take it further legally.  That's quite a statement. Of course it could be Gordon did not like the direction Oran wanted to take the club. Or a personality clash.  Can I ask you a question? If two million has been used up that was brought in by transfers would you be surprised ? If we are doing well in the league and two million has been blown when the accounts are published I think it will no big deal with fans. So no debt but a lot of money wasted maybe. Stones be thrown I hate Gordon very untrue. I want the club to be run correctly dont we all. The ticket online system is not fit for purpose. Gordon said it would be fixed for this season. You go out and tell hundreds of fans this will all be fixed for next season. It's still the same system . 

The 1st line of your answer says it all.

[Demented Zebra]

1 hour ago, tam the bud said:

11 hours ago, Demented Zebra said:

Like  all of us we dont really know the bottom line until the accounts are published.  I dont believe we are in debt. I have a feeling after hearing rumblings that 2 million brought in on transfers has been mostly used up. Heard true or false Oran leaving had nothing to do with travel or moving over full time to Scotland.  Weeks later Oran went public telling Gordon to stop telling lies as to why he left the club that it had nothing to do with commuting.  If it did not stop he would take it further legally.  That's quite a statement. Of course it could be Gordon did not like the direction Oran wanted to take the club. Or a personality clash.  Can I ask you a question? If two million has been used up that was brought in by transfers would you be surprised ? If we are doing well in the league and two million has been blown when the accounts are published I think it will no big deal with fans. So no debt but a lot of money wasted maybe. Stones be thrown I hate Gordon very untrue. I want the club to be run correctly dont we all. The ticket online system is not fit for purpose. Gordon said it would be fixed for this season. You go out and tell hundreds of fans this will all be fixed for next season. It's still the same system . 

The 1st line of your answer says it all.

You did not answer my question to you Tam ? 

[Div]

Let's look at some actual details and make some reasonable assumptions where hard facts aren't available.

We got a third of the profit Hibs made on McGinn. Assuming they sold him for £3m we probably got just under a million from that deal.

Where's the other million quid coming from? Assume we are going as far back as McAllister and including Mallan and Morgan transfer fees?

 In the latest accounts, to May 2018 we can see transfer income of £728K in 2018, and £220K (McAllister) in 2017. So just under a million.

The McAllister money was used to bankroll the survival transfer activity in Jan 2017.
The Mallan money was used to bankroll the budget at the start of the title winning season 17-18 (as noted in the 2018 accounts).
The Morgan money again was mostly spent bolstering the title charge in 17-18 (again noted in the 2018 accounts).

2017 accounts show a profit of just £15K.
2018 accounts show a profit of just £77K.

So if the charge is that the club spent all that transfer money then yes, they did. We used it to save ourselves from relegation to League 1 and then used more income to fund our way to the Championship title and a return to the Premiership. All of that is public record and in the past.

Since then we've got the additional McGinn money which will be shown in the next set of accounts to May 2019. Those will be published before the end of this year.

Those accounts will also give an idea of how much of that money went on the sacking of Stubbs and Jackson, the undoing of their transfer mess and the subsequent dealings that Oran did in January to save us. I suspect they won't tell us how much it cost to "mutually terminate" Oran.  They will also detail the compensation we got from Sunderland for Jack.

I'd reckon all of that will amount to a fair few quid going out the way, but I'd be very surprised if ALL of the McGinn money (and Jack's compo which was well into six figures I believe) has gone.

Either way, the club may well have wasted a lot of money, but it's been money we've generated from transfer income. It's not as though you'll suddenly see the club plunging into the red, not least because we have absolutely no borrowing facility that would allow us to do that.

Here's the last few years accounts if anyone wants to put a more forensic eye over previous financial performance!

Shareholders Final Accounts may 2014.pdfShareholders Final Accounts may 2015.pdfShareholders Final Accounts may 2016.pdfShareholders Final Accounts may 2017.pdfShareholders Final Accounts may 2018.pdf

[Drooper]

I had hoped we might be able to extend Hladky's contract, but if the player budget has been pretty much exhausted, that is less likely now.

That's pretty much the only thing I would lament in terms of our business this summer (and even that doesn't take account of the realistic scenario whereby Hladky was offered an extension but declined).

Overall, unless the club has put itself in a perilous state (which it won't have) then there isn't too much to find fault with, for those of us who know how to manage our expectations.

 

[Fony Titz]

Next he'll ask you to prove it hasn't happened.

It 100% won't put it to rest. As I keep telling you, November's accounts will be for FY18 so assuming this runs to March 31st 2019, won't include any of the payoffs from the point where you have went off at the deep end - namely Kearney's departure.
My point - my entire point - is that regardless of how much money we've spent, it was clearly money that was there and has NOT put us in the financial shit that you have explicitly said we're in. 
If we had £2m of extra income and have burned through that and broke even, so be it....expensive mistakes but no lasting damage, money comes and goes as they say. You are literally arguing with fresh air about that as I've never even touched on that with you as far as I remember.
Your outright proclamation that we are in financial peril as a result of spending money that was there to be spent/saved/whatever is where I have taken you to task.

[tam the bud]

You did not answer my question to you Tam ? 

I know. I stop reading your post after the 1st line.

[Demented Zebra]

40 minutes ago, tam the bud said:

5 hours ago, Demented Zebra said:

You did not answer my question to you Tam ? 

I know. I stop reading your post after the 1st line.

Time will tell. 

[pozbaird]

2 hours ago, Drooper said:

I had hoped we might be able to extend Hladky's contract, but if the player budget has been pretty much exhausted, that is less likely now.

That's pretty much the only thing I would lament in terms of our business this summer (and even that doesn't take account of the realistic scenario whereby Hladky was offered an extension but declined).

Overall, unless the club has put itself in a perilous state (which it won't have) then there isn't too much to find fault with, for those of us who know how to manage our expectations.

 

I wouldn’t imagine the club has knowingly put itself in a perilous state either. If anything, any ‘peril’ we face would be if relegation happened this season - after we have rolled the dice with ‘proper’ contacts of 2 years or more, and weaned ourselves off the loanee drug. It’s something we really needed to do though. We needed a better balance between ‘fully signed up’ guys, interspersed with loanees. I am fervently hoping we stay up this season, with the contracts we have in place for the following season, we’ll be in a better place next close season. Mind you, anything would be an improvement from our usual close season state - managerial merry-go-round, shite League Cup group campaign with a threadbare squad and soiled underpants at perceived transfer inactivity.

Just. Stay. Up.

COYS.

[christinanade]

I'm really not sure I buy the whole "not panic buying" and "holding off until we get the right players" comments by Scott. Looking at the last couple of seasons recruitment, I think it's been a deliberate money saving strategy to lower the wage bill by recruiting as late as possible. This season in particular it has resulted in potentially significant lost income due to being pumped out of the cup in a group we should have strolled through. We can only hope the talk of stability and 2/3 year player contracts is for real this time.

[TQM]

21 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

I'm 100% confident this will not be the case. 

500%  >  100%

 

You lose.

[flyingscot]

1 hour ago, christinanade said:

I'm really not sure I buy the whole "not panic buying" and "holding off until we get the right players" comments by Scott. Looking at the last couple of seasons recruitment, I think it's been a deliberate money saving strategy to lower the wage bill by recruiting as late as possible. This season in particular it has resulted in potentially significant lost income due to being pumped out of the cup in a group we should have strolled through. We can only hope the talk of stability and 2/3 year player contracts is for real this time.

I don't think it is a deliberate strategy. Many clubs, including others in the Premiership, struggled to get players in early because players were rightly looking at other offers and the Betfred Cup starts stupidly early. We should have got through with the players we had, but ho hum. 

[jaybeee]

On 11/09/2019 at 23:24, Demented Zebra said:

On 11/09/2019 at 22:40, tam the bud said:

Straight forward question for the Zebra. Are you saying the club will be in debt to 2 millions or we have wasted 2 millions but not in debt ? Now think carefully before you answer.

Like  all of us we dont really know the bottom line until the accounts are published.  I dont believe we are in debt. I have a feeling after hearing rumblings that 2 million brought in on transfers has been mostly used up. Heard true or false Oran leaving had nothing to do with travel or moving over full time to Scotland.  Weeks later Oran went public telling Gordon to stop telling lies as to why he left the club that it had nothing to do with commuting.  If it did not stop he would take it further legally.  That's quite a statement. Of course it could be Gordon did not like the direction Oran wanted to take the club. Or a personality clash.  Can I ask you a question? If two million has been used up that was brought in by transfers would you be surprised ? If we are doing well in the league and two million has been blown when the accounts are published I think it will no big deal with fans. So no debt but a lot of money wasted maybe. Stones be thrown I hate Gordon very untrue. I want the club to be run correctly dont we all. The ticket online system is not fit for purpose. Gordon said it would be fixed for this season. You go out and tell hundreds of fans this will all be fixed for next season. It's still the same system . 

You could just have said  I dont believe we are in debt. which of course you did and then rambled on in your usual manner, did you ever think that in a previous life you may well have been one of those hellfire preachers?