The St. Mirren FC 2023/24 thread

[glenburn bud]

Does it really matter if a player comes in on a years loan deal or a one year contract, given that he can play in all of our games and not have to sit out games if he was loaned to us from another premiership side in Scotland.

 

[Stu]

42 minutes ago, glenburn bud said:

Does it really matter if a player comes in on a years loan deal or a one year contract, given that he can play in all of our games and not have to sit out games if he was loaned to us from another premiership side in Scotland.

 

Aye that's usually my way of thinking, and it gets us access to a quality of player we wouldn't have a hope of signing normally.  I appreciate loans seem to be the way a lot of clubs go these days, just wonder if we've gone for too many at the same time. Likewise with the inexperienced guys - a few is fair enough but signing five or six in one window is a bit of a risk.

Just a case of waiting and seeing I guess. A load of loanees and guys who've hardly played doesn't automatically mean we'll be crap, in the same way signing guys we've heard of who have a couple of hundred games under their belt doesn't guarantee us success.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Stu

[AW saint]

Its not like a loan player from Scotland. Players from Premiership teams in England are a class above when it gets to the level Alfie is at. As long as he does the business that will do will. Now get another striker and a winger in. 

[Torfason]

I get that some may dislike Stubbs and some feel his is doing a good job but there is still a middle ground.
He seems like a jobbing manager who doesn't have any real attachment to the club but I guess that is again fair enough as long as he does the business.
I personally think feel quite ambivalent about him. He simply hasn't done enough to convince me one way or another, much like most of his signings.

[glenburn bud]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

Aye that's usually my way of thinking, and it gets us access to a quality of player we wouldn't have a hope of signing normally.  I appreciate loans seem to be the way a lot of clubs go these days, just wonder if we've gone for too many at the same time. Likewise with the inexperienced guys - a few is fair enough but signing five or six in one window is a bit of a risk.

Just a case of waiting and seeing I guess. A load of loanees and guys who've hardly played doesn't automatically mean we'll be crap, in the same way signing guys we've heard of who have a couple of hundred games under their belt doesn't guarantee us success.

That’s pretty much the feelings of the majority. I would love to see us go out and sign another experienced striker and a natural wide player.  As far as the 3 non league signings go, I’m lead to believe that it’s more of a fitness issue than it is a question of their ability. Once they are at peak fitness level, then we can probably judge them on how well they can cope with the demands at this level. 

I reckon we might see another 2 players in before the weekend.

[AW saint]

2 hours ago, glenburn bud said:

That’s pretty much the feelings of the majority. I would love to see us go out and sign another experienced striker and a natural wide player.  As far as the 3 non league signings go, I’m lead to believe that it’s more of a fitness issue than it is a question of their ability. Once they are at peak fitness level, then we can probably judge them on how well they can cope with the demands at this level. 

I reckon we might see another 2 players in before the weekend.

Hope you are right

[Demented Zebra]

6 hours ago, Soctty said:

You would rather we sat back and accepted a future back in the championship? The boy is here for a year. Like most clubs in our league we are supplementing permanent signings with loan deals - that's the way it is for clubs in Scotland due to the lack of money in the game. Delighted to have some promising youngsters at the club from down south to supplement the promising youngsters we develop ourselves.

I wrote over in BAWA fans won't bother too much as long as a winning team is on the park I'm no different.  But would like us to develop our own rather than someone else's project . We have done quite well financially with our own young talent. Yes it has to be there first but I'm not confident Stubbs will give many a chance time will tell. 

[buddies1877]

On the subject of loan deals, Rangers have 4 on loan, Hibs have 4 on loan, Livi, Hamilton, Killie and more have at least a couple on loan, and more will arrive as English clubs make their young prospects available for loan. IT's a way of life up here. We would not have won a League Cup without the likes of Dummett, Goncalves and Newton on loan to help,
Some people just look for reasons to have a go...

Spot on a lot of our fans are never happy no matter what its starting to get so depressing.


People suggesting it will affect our own academy players a load of rubbish will be no different from the way permanent signings would affect them.

Also saying they don’t care as much yet more pish just moaning for the sake of it could name loads of permanent signings that showed a lack of effort and loan signings that would work their bollocks off for us.

After the mistakes made by jack and Cole in recent games their was moans for someone to come in that can play cb we sign one then they moan because he can also play as a defensive midfielder.

Some of our fans just have it in for Stubbs.

[djchapsticks]

I don't care if we bring in another 3 loanees. If they are the best available at this point in time, I'm all for it. 

We lost at lot of our preparation due to the management situation where we'd have presumably been talking to players whose contracts were expiring. 

If we end the window with 8 loan players and even 3 or 4 stay on beyond that, it's been a worthwhile exercise. 

I will admit I'm a wee bit concerned about the signing strategy at times but I'm definitely in the 'wait and see' camp. To elaborate, I wouldn't have prioritised holding mid as a position we're most desperately in need of so it's a bit of a head scratcher when by our own manager's admission our priorities in terms of strengthening lie further up the park but if Stubbs feels that Jones is too good a player to pass up and he'll strengthen the squad and first XI considerably, then I'm all for it. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by djchapsticks

[GAD]

I actually think we do need a defensive mid to be honest. We didn't really need one in the championship, but I think at the moment the CBs are too exposed, especially with the full backs pushing on, and McGinn isn't really a holding midfielder, not in the way someone like Goodwin was. I think it will give us more flexibility game to game to adjust to the opposition and make us a bit more solid. 

[Soctty]

15 hours ago, Stu said:

I am not looking for reasons to have a go. I'm concerned over the number of loan players and the lack of experienced signings. Don't think that's too outrageous a thought to have.

I'm level-headed compared to the folk who were losing the plot because didn't sign O'Ware 

Wasn't having a go at you - more a general point. Yours is a valid opinion, albeit one I don't personally agree with. 

I just think patience is required, at least until the manager and team have had a chance to show what they can do over a decent amount of games. 

[Soctty]

10 hours ago, Demented Zebra said:

I wrote over in BAWA fans won't bother too much as long as a winning team is on the park I'm no different.  But would like us to develop our own rather than someone else's project . We have done quite well financially with our own young talent. Yes it has to be there first but I'm not confident Stubbs will give many a chance time will tell. 

Why don't we give Stubbs a chance? 

And we can do both - being in loan players to strengthen our squad as well as developing our own youths. He's specifically mentioned Erhahon on several occasions as being a bright prospect. Everything in moderation. 

[Demented Zebra]

11 minutes ago, Soctty said:

Why don't we give Stubbs a chance? 

And we can do both - being in loan players to strengthen our squad as well as developing our own youths. He's specifically mentioned Erhahon on several occasions as being a bright prospect. Everything in moderation. 

First part on Stubbs, I'm 100% behind Stubbs was pleased when he was appointed.  Jack Ross was brilliant with us in the championship. For the top league I think we have the right manager . Second part your  right I forgot about that comment.

[Buddist Monk]

I don't think that anyone is not giving Stubbs a chance, but I see no issue about questioning his signings. It's not like he is somehow insulated from criticism. Ross, Rae, Murray, Craig, etc, etc had their signings and play style scrutinised.

Willock has been a good addition, Coulson has been a good addition (albeit he does not seem a natural left back) and Kpekawa will improve with game time. The rest though have been a bit of a miss. Can't comment about Brock Madsen although he looked like he could be a handful we'll just need to wait and see if he is.

In regard to Jones, he looks like he has pedigree but it's a gamble. The level of that gamble depends on what Stubbs wants him to do. If he's cover for the defence and midfield, then cool, if he's here to replace McGinn as a holding midfielder then you are left with a lot of players all competing for the central midfield. It seems Stubbs sees Flynn as more central (and to be fair he no longer has the pace to be an out and out winger) and in his defence each time he's come off the bench he's made an impact. Magennis is the rising star and while it's a little unfair to assume he'll continue on improving like McGinn, Mallan, McLean and the like, I think we all expect fairly big things from him. I think most expect McShane to leave even though he got game time against Rangers, but by the sounds of it that might be a swap for Polworth. I'd say that's a decent deal if it can be done, but it does nothing to address midfield congestion.

The solution is to sell or loan, I presume. Unless with the reserve league making a come back we are looking to get game time from that. MacPherson played well against Killie and I'd like to maybe see him get a 6 month loan in a lower league to keep him playing, and Kellerman I have no idea about as I've seen little of him and what I say didn't really impress me. Maybe he just needs a run in a team, so again a possible loan?

 

[Demented Zebra]

Looking for the domestic cup section has it been scrapped? 

[elvis]

Nope still there .

[Buddist Monk]

28 minutes ago, Demented Zebra said:

Looking for the domestic cup section has it been scrapped? 

If you are wondering about our Colt result, 2-1 to us. We were took the lead but Killie drew level either by or just past half time, but we ran out winners in the end.

[Soctty]

1 hour ago, Buddist Monk said:

I don't think that anyone is not giving Stubbs a chance, but I see no issue about questioning his signings. It's not like he is somehow insulated from criticism. Ross, Rae, Murray, Craig, etc, etc had their signings and play style scrutinised.

You're wrong - plenty are not giving him a chance. The fact we've lost one competitive game, at Ibrox and yet there are wails of derision when we let Ross Stewart leave should tell you that there are people looking for any excuse to lambast Stubbs. 

Willock has been a good addition, Coulson has been a good addition (albeit he does not seem a natural left back) and Kpekawa will improve with game time. The rest though have been a bit of a miss. Can't comment about Brock Madsen although he looked like he could be a handful we'll just need to wait and see if he is.

Coulson arrived as a left back, having played in Boro's academy as a left back, and remains a left back. Agree on the others.

In regard to Jones, he looks like he has pedigree but it's a gamble. The level of that gamble depends on what Stubbs wants him to do. If he's cover for the defence and midfield, then cool, if he's here to replace McGinn as a holding midfielder then you are left with a lot of players all competing for the central midfield. It seems Stubbs sees Flynn as more central (and to be fair he no longer has the pace to be an out and out winger) and in his defence each time he's come off the bench he's made an impact. Magennis is the rising star and while it's a little unfair to assume he'll continue on improving like McGinn, Mallan, McLean and the like, I think we all expect fairly big things from him. I think most expect McShane to leave even though he got game time against Rangers, but by the sounds of it that might be a swap for Polworth. I'd say that's a decent deal if it can be done, but it does nothing to address midfield congestion.

He's here to play as a DM. I highly doubt it's to replace McGinn. The more players competing for every place the better - this was what Stubbs specifically said he wanted when he took over. Nobody should be guaranteed a place, and we might see one or two of those deemed to be automatic picks taken out of the starting eleven at some point soon enough to prove the point, depending on results.

The solution is to sell or loan, I presume. Unless with the reserve league making a come back we are looking to get game time from that. MacPherson played well against Killie and I'd like to maybe see him get a 6 month loan in a lower league to keep him playing, and Kellerman I have no idea about as I've seen little of him and what I say didn't really impress me. Maybe he just needs a run in a team, so again a possible loan?

 

I suspect a few will go out on loan, mainly youngsters. However, Stubbs wants competition for every place, which suggests at least 22 in the first team squad, bolstered by some kids. I'm pleased that we're starting to see a squad materialise, and I think had the manager been in place from the end of last season it may have been largely in place a lot sooner and be more settled.

[Demented Zebra]

45 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

If you are wondering about our Colt result, 2-1 to us. We were took the lead but Killie drew level either by or just past half time, but we ran out winners in the end.

No thought there might have been an Dons v Saints thread ? 

[Buddist Monk]

3 minutes ago, Demented Zebra said:

No thought there might have been an Dons v Saints thread ? 

Don't want to sound pessimistic, but just copy and paste last season's one, it'll end up being a similar score/performance.

I think the last time we played well at Pittodrie, Ricky Gillies was in the stripes.