The St. Mirren FC 2023/24 thread

[weebud]

16 hours ago, Buddist Monk said:

There will always be knicker wetters, as there are happy clappers. Now I've been broadly supportive of him but of the purchases three are not ready for this level (Heaton, Cooke and King), one is playing out of position (Coulson) and the other is short of match fitness (Kpekawa). We've failed to win against much lower league opposition in Spartans and Queens Park and got extremely lucky against Dundee.

As I say I've been supportive, but if you wanted to make a case for the knicker wetters you could do so pretty easily. If you add in dropping McGinn, and we don't know for sure that's in his plans, then he's simply causing himself problems rather than being unfairly targeted.

 

Accuracy is always good when making a case......Coulson was signed as a left back so not playing out of position and I'm not wearing extremely lucky against Dundee either. They had a period of pressure after half-time but we weathered that and although the goalie made a bit of a mess of things it is because he was put under enormous pressure as were the defensive line, that was tactical....

Dropping McGinn, behave!!

There are areas of concern for sure, although most of them ere already there, but give it a bit of time for the team to gel, new guys to find their feet and the transfer window to shut and then it's time to make a case one way or the other.

[Coventry Saint]

47 minutes ago, elvis said:

Hate saying this but think it will be sink. 

No you fucking don't.

[Soctty]

20 hours ago, Biscuits said:

We seem to be drifting back towards a lot of negativity towards Stubbs. Which I really don’t understand. I’m not sure what a lot of our support are expecting - despite the money for mcginn we still aren’t well off and can’t be splashing out cash right, left and centre.

Most of our signings will be, to some extent, a gamble.

Not sure if anyone watched the hearts - Celtic game on Saturday but hearts had a guy playing in their midfield who was previously playing in the Austrian second division. Can’t mind his name but he was outstanding - man of the match. The gems are out there but I think you need a certain amount of luck to find them.

Now Stubbs is being criticised for not signing Liam smith - don’t get me wrong he was very good for us in the championship but he is very young and maybe not what we are looking for right now. Let’s just get behind AS and see how it goes.

All the criticism and negativity aren’t helping anyone. 3 points against Livvy and we have made a very good start to the season.

Stubbs' biggest problem is that he's not Jack Ross. One defeat this season and some are just waiting for more to pile the pressure on sadly.

We've won one league game, which many were expecting us not to win, and lost one that everyone was expecting us to lose. We're slightly above expectations in the league at the moment, with the Dundee win a great three points from the type of game we are going to have to win if we're to steer clear of the relegation dogfight.

Livi next up in the league, and another win will have us doing just fine. Another couple of decent signings and we'll be stronger again.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Soctty

[Soctty]

17 hours ago, Drooper said:

Without McGinn in the team, we would have been relegated to League One.

Spot on, it has been McGinn's leadership qualities as much as anything else that put us where we are now. That's not to say he will always be an automatic pick, but on his performances for us over an 18 month period it's difficult to see him dropping out unless there's a consistent drop in his level.

[Soctty]

42 minutes ago, houston_bud said:

I think that's a side issue though. Stubbs told our top scorer he wasn't wanted without a replacement lined up.  

I was trying to explain why I think there has been criticism of Stubbs, moving players on without having replacements for them is a reason why I think he has been criticised.

Our top scorer had decided to hang around for better offers, and so I have no problem with Stubbs' course of action. When Reilly was wanted he dillied and dallied, so the new manager took control of the situation, especially since Reilly's agent was causing issues according to Stubbs.

[flyingscot]

Worth pointing out Reilly scored twice in the league after Christmas and Ross seemed to prefer Mullen towards the end. Would he really have made the step up to Premiership level? I could understand the anger if he'd gone to Dundee/Hamilton etc and was banging them in but in the end nobody took a punt on him and he is in L2 in England.

Signing Liam Smith is all very well, but Ross correctly decided that he couldn't afford to sit around whilst Hearts decided what to do. He took Paul McGinn and moved on.  Had we waited on Liam Smith, only for him to stay at Hearts, we'd have forums full of people criticising our management for 'waiting around instead of getting someone else in'. It's unlikely Smith would want to come here to play second fiddle to McGinn or vice versa and I'd suggest we have more critical areas to spend money on. 

There is a lot of emotional attachment to the side that won us the Championship, but we need a side for the Premiership now. Every time that Championship side played a Premiership team last season we got well beaten. Dundee stuck 3 past us in a friendly, Thistle 5 in league cup, Aberdeen 4 in Scottish. Clear it needed improvement and that was always going to see others move on. 

[Buddist Monk]

1 hour ago, weebud said:

Accuracy is always good when making a case......Coulson was signed as a left back so not playing out of position and I'm not wearing extremely lucky against Dundee either. They had a period of pressure after half-time but we weathered that and although the goalie made a bit of a mess of things it is because he was put under enormous pressure as were the defensive line, that was tactical....

Dropping McGinn, behave!!

There are areas of concern for sure, although most of them ere already there, but give it a bit of time for the team to gel, new guys to find their feet and the transfer window to shut and then it's time to make a case one way or the other.

I never stated he was dropping McGinn, follow the comment chain and you'll see that was someone else. Coulson is not a left back. He may have been signed as one, but he isn't one - or at least he is uncomfortable playing there, and finally it's all fine and well claiming we pressed in order to get the goal but the simple truth is if the keeper hadn't tried to be smart then the ball would have been cleared and Flynn wouldn't have had time to pop it across the goal to Mullen. We were lucky. Especially so considering Moussa made a pig's ear of the penalty.

Other than that, the post is fine..

I've said all along that I'm broadly supportive of Stubbs, he wasn't my first choice but he also isn't the worst. He's thankfully avoided bringing in Stokes, which to me is a bit of a red line, but there is not a Saints fan who would say it's been a "successful" transfer window so far. The window is of course still open so we'll just have to wait and see.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by Buddist Monk

[weebud]

7 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

I never stated he was dropping McGinn, follow the comment chain and you'll see that was someone else. Coulson is not a left back. He may have been signed as one, but he isn't one - or at least he is uncomfortable playing there, and finally it's all fine and well claiming we pressed in order to get the goal but the simple truth is if the keeper hadn't tried to be smart then the ball would have been cleared and Flynn wouldn't have had time to pop it across the goal to Mullen. We were lucky. Especially so considering Moussa made a pig's ear of the penalty.

Other than that, the post is fine..

 

 

Coulson is a left-back at Middlesboro and a left-back here, your opinion of whether that is his best position or not is moot, you'd be as well throwing shite at the moon!!

The keeper wasn't trying anything, he was put under pressure and had no outlet as the other defenders were marked.

Samson made a good save from a fairly well placed penalty.

You also used the potential dropping McGinn and the subsequent reaction as part of your "case" for the knicker-wetters!!

I'm looking for anything to describe in your post as "fine"...…………...yup, as I suspected, nothing there. 

[Buddist Monk]

6 minutes ago, weebud said:

Coulson is a left-back at Middlesboro and a left-back here, your opinion of whether that is his best position or not is moot, you'd be as well throwing shite at the moon!!

The keeper wasn't trying anything, he was put under pressure and had no outlet as the other defenders were marked.

Samson made a good save from a fairly well placed penalty.

You also used the potential dropping McGinn and the subsequent reaction as part of your "case" for the knicker-wetters!!

I'm looking for anything to describe in your post as "fine"...…………...yup, as I suspected, nothing there. 

This is a fucking mess. You have absolutely shat yourself here. Personal digs, and huge glaring errors do not warrant a reply.

[weebud]

7 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

This is a fucking mess. You have absolutely shat yourself here. Personal digs, and huge glaring errors do not warrant a reply.

Personal digs..... I'm interested, where??

[Coventry Saint]

43 minutes ago, flyingscot said:

Worth pointing out Reilly scored twice in the league after Christmas and Ross seemed to prefer Mullen towards the end. Would he really have made the step up to Premiership level? I could understand the anger if he'd gone to Dundee/Hamilton etc and was banging them in but in the end nobody took a punt on him and he is in L2 in England.

 

...and not even getting on the park at the moment.

[monthelie']

1 minute ago, Coventry Saint said:

...and not even getting on the park at the moment.

Think he needs to sack his agent.

[sergie's no1 fan]

Think he needs to sack his agent.

He is probably getting a couple of hundred quid extra a week. You'd think for a player like Reilly he'd be wanting regular football after what happened to him at Hearts and his poor season at Dunfermline.

If his time at Bristol Rovers is a failure he will get a club up here no problem when his contract expires.

[Coventry Saint]

18 minutes ago, monthelie' said:

Think he needs to sack his agent.

 

1 minute ago, sergie's no1 fan said:

He is probably getting a couple of hundred quid extra a week. 

And they offered him a two-year-deal, did they not? I don't blame him for taking it, but any claims he may have made about wanting game time are looking a bit daft right now.

Despite all that, I hope he does well, and starts playing & scoring for them. He's a good guy and has a young kid to provide for.

[Stu]

Another young boy coming in.

https://www.stmirren.com/news/club/all-news/2086-alfie-joins

This is nothing against the boy, who may or may not be a good player, but the lack of experience we have brought in is frightening. I'm not wanting a return to the days of Gus when we signed guys in their mid 30s or whatever, but the vast majority of Stubbs' signings have barely kicked a ball in league football.

Fair enough one or two but we've filled up the squad with guys like that. Going by Wiki (admittedly not always reliable) we're looking at:

Coulson - no senior appearances.

Heaton - a couple of seasons bouncing around non-league football. Don't think anything higher than Conference North.

Brock-Madsen - a bit of experience from loan spells but hasn't played much in the last three years

Cooke - plenty of experience in non-leagues, nothing higher than Conference South.

Willock - about 20 senior appearances.

King - a handful of appearances, majority in non-league.

Kpekawa - less than 40 appearances.

Rogers - an experienced player!

And now Jones, who has yet to make a senior appearance. And if the boy rumoured to be on trial is accurate he doesn't exactly have much first team football experience either.

Not meant to be boo boy/knicker-wetter stuff and I'm sure folk can highlight examples of inexperienced guys coming in and doing us a turn (Dummett, Newton and Liam Smith) but I don't think it's too much to ask that there were a few more guys with the background of Paul McGinn coming in.

The reliance on loans  is also a bit of a concern (see previous three names to debunk that). Think that'll be five if this guy from Southampton signs? Suppose it's no different to signing someone on a one-year deal but there is an argument that guys on loan don't have the same commitment etc as a guy on a permanent contract.

Anyway, rant over. Welcome Alfie.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Stu

[Demented Zebra]

Under 23 Southampton captain coming in on loan. Great to see us building for the future 

[Soctty]

54 minutes ago, Demented Zebra said:

Under 23 Southampton captain coming in on loan. Great to see us building for the future 

You would rather we sat back and accepted a future back in the championship? The boy is here for a year. Like most clubs in our league we are supplementing permanent signings with loan deals - that's the way it is for clubs in Scotland due to the lack of money in the game. Delighted to have some promising youngsters at the club from down south to supplement the promising youngsters we develop ourselves.

[Soctty]

On the subject of loan deals, Rangers have 4 on loan, Hibs have 4 on loan, Livi, Hamilton, Killie and more have at least a couple on loan, and more will arrive as English clubs make their young prospects available for loan. IT's a way of life up here. We would not have won a League Cup without the likes of Dummett, Goncalves and Newton on loan to help,

Some people just look for reasons to have a go...

Edited August 15, 2018 by Soctty

[Soctty]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

Another young boy coming in.

https://www.stmirren.com/news/club/all-news/2086-alfie-joins

This is nothing against the boy, who may or may not be a good player, but the lack of experience we have brought in is frightening. I'm not wanting a return to the days of Gus when we signed guys in their mid 30s or whatever, but the vast majority of Stubbs' signings have barely kicked a ball in league football.

Fair enough one or two but we've filled up the squad with guys like that. Going by Wiki (admittedly not always reliable) we're looking at:

Coulson - no senior appearances.

Heaton - a couple of seasons bouncing around non-league football. Don't think anything higher than Conference North.

Brock-Madsen - a bit of experience from loan spells but hasn't played much in the last three years

Cooke - plenty of experience in non-leagues, nothing higher than Conference South.

Willock - about 20 senior appearances.

King - a handful of appearances, majority in non-league.

Kpekawa - less than 40 appearances.

Rogers - an experienced player!

And now Jones, who has yet to make a senior appearance. And if the boy rumoured to be on trial is accurate he doesn't exactly have much first team football experience either.

Not meant to be boo boy/knicker-wetter stuff and I'm sure folk can highlight examples of inexperienced guys coming in and doing us a turn (Dummett, Newton and Liam Smith) but I don't think it's too much to ask that there were a few more guys with the background of Paul McGinn coming in.

The reliance on loans  is also a bit of a concern (see previous three names to debunk that). Think that'll be five if this guy from Southampton signs? Suppose it's no different to signing someone on a one-year deal but there is an argument that guys on loan don't have the same commitment etc as a guy on a permanent contract.

Anyway, rant over. Welcome Alfie.

How commited were Dummett, Goncalves and Newton during our League Cup win? Like any other players, some will bust a gut and some will sit back and take their wage. Of the ones we have so far, Coulson is doing great, Willock not shirking responsibility - it's up the manager to motivate the team, regardless of whether they are permanent or on loan.

If we can get more experienced guys in then I'm sure we will, but people were up in arms at the thought of Miller or Stokes coming in. The fact is that more experienced players tend to have some sort of baggage if they're available, either that or they are past it or not good enough in the first place. I'd rather have a hungry young player on the way up than someone looking for an easy ride to retirement. I realise that's not what you're suggesting, but there are very fine margins between good experienced players and those who don't contribute sometimes.

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Soctty said:

On the subject of loan deals, Rangers have 4 on loan, Hibs have 4 on loan, Livi, Hamilton, Killie and more have at least a couple on loan, and more will arrive as English clubs make their young prospects available for loan. IT's a way of life up here. We would not have won a League Cup without the likes of Dummett, Goncalves and Newton on loan to help,

Some people just look for reasons to have a go...

I am not looking for reasons to have a go. I'm concerned over the number of loan players and the lack of experienced signings. Don't think that's too outrageous a thought to have.

I'm level-headed compared to the folk who were losing the plot because didn't sign O'Ware