Ruth Davidson.

[pandarilla]

voila

 

 

Utterly pathetic.

I'm sorry lads but that is exactly what has happened in the last 30 years. The divide is cultural and geographic.

 

City metropolis folk have done very well, whereas those still in provincial towns previously attached to old industries have been left way behind.

 

I think it's less of an issue in Scotland than in England but it still exists.

 

That piece from Marr was spot on.

 

[Granny Danger]

I’d love to see Davidson on the national stage.  Once she came under real scrutiny her lack of any real ability or political conviction would be quickly and easily exposed. 

[pandarilla]

Not incomers fault, not the cause of the sense of abandonment felt by people in these places, certainly not responsible editorialising by a flagship BBC show at a febrile time right after the vote when Poles were being beaten to a bloody mess.

I don't think he blames immigrants at all - he blames a globalised capitalism that has led to this situation. Pretending immigration is not a factor has been one of the biggest problems of the last 15-20 years, as many of these communities already feel like their problems are being ignored. I certainly don't think it's the fault of immigrants, but I'm certain he doesn't either. He's a social historian, and a reasonably left-leaning one at that (anyone who's watched his two major series about 20th century Britain will testify to that).

He's pointing out that London and the other massive cities have become out of touch with their localities. People had a chance to press a giant 'f**k you' button and they've taken it.

[sophia]

13 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Not incomers fault, not the cause of the sense of abandonment felt by people in these places, certainly not responsible editorialising by a flagship BBC show at a febrile time right after the vote when Poles were being beaten to a bloody mess.

and it continues.

The BBC accepts this all as the norm and instead of pressurising the charlatans, they open the door to the racists and the spivs.

Only the naive or racist with a small r would argue

 

[Arch Stanton]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

I’d love to see Davidson on the national stage. 

I'd love to see her drown in a silo of manure.

[pandarilla]

Not disputing that, or that immigration was a massive factor in the vote. Just disputing that it was the actual reason for their ills.
Should say the stuff about cities like London pulling ahead is fair. Brexit won't fix it though.

Brexit will absolutely not fix it, and again Marr doesn't suggest that.

Those who have been able to take advantage of the modern world (for want of a better term), have done very well for themselves in the last 20-30 years. Property market, cheap city breaks, explosion in the number of graduates, growth of a professional, management type in all sectors - if you can play the game you're probably doing well and living in a nice, gentrified area.

But if you're not? The opportunities for a decent job and a decent standard of life have narrowed drastically: disappearance of high quality council housing, deindustrialization, rising rents, inner city drug problems. In those conditions people start to look for a scapegoat, and the accidental influx of East Europeans at the start of the twentieth century was a recipe for disaster.

He's pointing out why this happened, not apportioning blame.

[Kuro]

2 hours ago, pandarilla said:

The vow was a massive political intervention, and just because you were opposed to it, doesn't mean the journalists have to be.

It clinched the result, and the yes movement knew it. The fact that the c***s were never really going to deliver meaningful change has nothing to do with it. Plenty of older voters wanted that stepping stone, and unfortunately it worked a treat.

I genuinely don't think you understand what balanced is. You see it as either 'them' or 'us', when most of the time it's a lot more nuanced.

Sigh, this is one of those posts that is so idiotic and wantonly stupid it takes effort to even drag yourself round to replying to it.  Suffice to say its the last time with you, as wilfully ignorant people like you go on ignore, as will you be after this reply.

It is the duty of any journalist to conduct journalism.   This means subjecting both sides to scrutiny.  Furthermore, it is especially the duty of a BBC journalist (bound by rules of impartiality) to be fair, balanced and impartial.   A political journalist spends his entire career waiting on an opportunity like this.  This was a complete open goal for Marr, and he refused to even take the shot.

He had the Chancellor of the Exchequer live on his show, 12 hours after the first poll showing yes in the lead, making a wide ranging ground breaking policy announcement completely changing the political landscape and choice on offer just three days before the referendum.  

There's a couple of key things any actual journalist and not an establishment shill like Marr desperately trying to facilitate a no vote would have been all over and utterly hammering Osborne on relentlessly.

One- you've literally come up with this overnight haven't you?  This policy did not exist yesterday, has never been mentioned before, a poll was released 12 hours ago showing yes in the lead and you and a few govt spivs have been up all night coming up with this haven't you?  (He did look exceedingly tired actually).  After spending two years telling us the SNP's plan for independence was written on the proverbial packet, you've literally just come up with a plan for the constitutional future of the UK over the space of a few panicked hours, that's irrefutably the case isn't it?

You'll be amazed to find Marr did not mention that at all.

Two - this is a breach of purdah isn't it?  That's why they're pushing you out to announce it three days before the referendum (not being officially part of the no campaign) as its illegal to do this isn't it?

I'm sure you're needing medical assistance at the news Marr did not mention this at all either.  And literally uttered 'wow' in response to one of Osborne's policy announcements of all the super duper new powers Scotland would be getting (later to consist of partial control of income tax, and road signs).

I think its clearly you who doesn't understand what balanced is, and the rules and laws under which journalists (especially public broadcasters) and politicians are required to operate.  There was no nuance to this.  On ignore.

[pandarilla]

[emoji23] Your first sentence really is something.

Could you link to this interview? It was you that mentioned it originally, not me.

And like I said, he's never been a 'tough' journalist. But I believe he applies the same standard to both sides. I saw his interview with John McDonnell this morning and no doubt there'll be a few immature little Englanders on some Millwall fc politics site raging that Marr let him off the hook.

[pandarilla]

Mmmm... I didn't get a sense he was working very hard to disentangle immigration and the other stuff.

That was his opening monologue to the show.

It's an incredibly tricky and complex issue, and the BBC has struggled badly over the years. I'm some cases it's just flat out racism, but tangled up in that there are genuine grievances. I think the fact that it was unexpected by the government is quite telling. They expected tens of thousands to come once Poland (and maybe others) joined the EU (c2003?) but it was far more than that.

As a result there was an understandable pressure on local services and administrations at all levels were slow to act (as is the case). From what I can gather ît was much worse in England than up here.

[pandarilla]

Thats you and me both on ignore from Pep today, he's not going to have anyone to talk to soon (just kidding we all know you're having a wee peak at our posts, hiya Pep, hiya pal)

Is that who it is? f**k sake.

[Glen Sannox]

I think the Tories up here are crying out for a real intellectual, political heavyweight, you know, a sort of Derek Mackay/Natalie McGarry type figure.

[Antlion]

12 minutes ago, Glen Sannox said:

I think the Tories up here are crying out for a real intellectual, political heavyweight, you know, a sort of Derek Mackay/Natalie McGarry type figure.

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

[DublinMagyar]

I think the Tories up here are crying out for a real intellectual, political heavyweight, you know, a sort of Derek Mackay/Natalie McGarry type figure.

Minter, minter, minter, Kirstine Heir, minter, minter, minter

[NotThePars]

Pepe putting two of the most eminently reasonable posters on here on ignore after one disagreement is huge posting energy and I'm here for it.

Edited May 5, 2019 by NotThePars

[Colkitto]

Tories as predicted will try and hoover up the Unionist votes and make any election all about the Constitution.  It's a get out of jail card as they won't need to talk about actual policies.

They obviously did well in the last Westminster election but they were almost given a free run as the SNP didn't go on the Constitution and subsequently paid the price as all the indy voters stayed at home.

Won't be the same this time round as the SNP will go big on independence and Brexit which the Tories in Scotland really don't want to talk about. All efforts will go on independence by the Tories but they won't get nearly the same success. Brexit alone will make sure of that...

 

 

 

[Colkitto]

Boris has confirmed he will run for leader. What's wee Ruth going to do now? Will the Scottish Tories now split from the UK party if he wins?

[HTG]

11 minutes ago, Colkitto said:

Boris has confirmed he will run for leader. What's wee Ruth going to do now? Will the Scottish Tories now split from the UK party if he wins?

She will spin like a fucking top and then tell us all that Boris is the man. This will be followed by the inter-exchange of separation, Nicola Sturgeon, independence, divisive referendums. All the while conspicuously ignoring that her party are responsible for 100% of all recent divisive referendums. 

Boot.

[Dan Steele]

I've just had a look at Ruth's EU election leaflet. Well, I say EU election but it seems we're in the politics of fog. The usual fear of Sturgeon and obsession with indy and of course Nae Referendum, and little mention of it being a vote to elect MEPs. Wonder how many of the 60% who voted Remain will be swayed by that pile of rubbish? I realise the difficulty of a Leave party participating in the voting process, but that leaflet is dire. And as for Scottish Labour running with Corbyn's photo. Strange times, strange times.

[Ira Gaines]

7 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

I've just had a look at Ruth's EU election leaflet. Well, I say EU election but it seems we're in the politics of fog. The usual fear of Sturgeon and obsession with indy and of course Nae Referendum, and little mention of it being a vote to elect MEPs. Wonder how many of the 60% who voted Remain will be swayed by that pile of rubbish? I realise the difficulty of a Leave party participating in the voting process, but that leaflet is dire. And as for Scottish Labour running with Corbyn's photo. Strange times, strange times.

It's not about the EU for her though, and it's not exactly the worst road to go down. The whole EU debate will be won and lost outside of Scotland. They didn't give a f**k about us before now, so no matter how it goes here, they're not going to give a f**k after the vote either.

Their focus will be on the Scottish unionists. Their focus is on indyref2. Because realistically, that's the next thing that actually makes a difference in this neck of the woods. So they can take a tanking here in the EU elections and continue to go with the campaign that matters to them.

Even the Scottish Tories know that we don't matter to the UK as a whole. They're happy with that state of affairs too. I believe the word to describe them is one used on this sub forum by certain folk. Craven.