Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[williemillersmoustache]

42 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

In every way, and absolutely not. It’s as clear as day what this is and there’s no winning with anybody that supports it.
 

The same arguments and sound bites, people convincing themselves they are the good guys and the progressives when they’re living in their own wee delusional worlds 
 

SNP / Sturgeon are a total embarrassment now, coming from someone who was their biggest supporter only 3/4 years ago. 
 

This will not go down well 

These seem like fairly non specific objections tbh.

I sympathise with some of the feelings and concerns expressed by some women. However, I have some anecdotal knowledge of both child protection, violence and sexual violence against women as a close relative of mine spent her career working in this field.

And this legislation will have the square root of f**k all effect on predatory men and sexual offenders and their ability or propensity to offend. None. 

But it will confer rights upon some of the most marginalised and vulnerable minority groups in society. 

I don't have a dog in this fight but it does seem to me to be one of the most scrutinised, consulted upon and debated pieces of legislation in history. That doesn't make it by definition good but, you can't argue that it hasn't been thought through or properly debated or subjected to a rigorous democratic process. 

[Leith Green]

51 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Embarrassing comment. Sure the biggest voice against this within the SNP is infact a homosexual woman.

That may be true, but it doesnt make her right.

6 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

These seem like fairly non specific objections tbh.

I sympathise with some of the feelings and concerns expressed by some women. However, I have some anecdotal knowledge of both child protection, violence and sexual violence against women as a close relative of mine spent her career working in this field.

And this legislation will have the square root of f**k all effect on predatory men and sexual offenders and their ability or propensity to offend. None. 

But it will confer rights upon some of the most marginalised and vulnerable minority groups in society. 

I don't have a dog in this fight but it does seem to me to be one of the most scrutinised, consulted upon and debated pieces of legislation in history. That doesn't make it by definition good but, you can't argue that it hasn't been thought through or properly debated or subjected to a rigorous democratic process. 

Agreed, 100% - predators will continue to do their awful work, but those people suggesting that this "opens the floodgates" to these guys are tinfoil hatted bampots.

Its much the same as those religious nutters who didnt want "the poofs" and "the lezzers" to be allowed to marry either.

[Miguel Sanchez]

1 hour ago, 1320Lichtie said:

In every way, and absolutely not. It’s as clear as day what this is and there’s no winning with anybody that supports it.
 

The same arguments and sound bites, people convincing themselves they are the good guys and the progressives when they’re living in their own wee delusional worlds 
 

SNP / Sturgeon are a total embarrassment now, coming from someone who was their biggest supporter only 3/4 years ago. 
 

This will not go down well 

What are your objections to the bill?

[1320Lichtie]

9 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

That may be true, but it doesnt make her right.

Agreed, 100% - predators will continue to do their awful work, but those people suggesting that this "opens the floodgates" to these guys are tinfoil hatted bampots.

Its much the same as those religious nutters who didnt want "the poofs" and "the lezzers" to be allowed to marry either.

But it does mean that you cannot brush people off who do not support this as bigoted or hateful people.
 

It’s not about political parties either, I’m pretty sure I saw that 2/3rds of women SNP members (could be wrong but I think that’s correct) did not support this never mind the number of people that would object within the general population of all different types of folk.

 

I checked this thread because it had come up in normal daily conversations I’ve had with people who would never ever discuss politics with me. It will not go down well 

 

Hopefully it is overruled 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by 1320Lichtie

[oneteaminglasgow]

You actually can brush off people opposed to this as bigots, because they are. Unlucky. 

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, 1320Lichtie said:

But it does mean that you cannot brush people off who abject to this as bigoted or hateful people.
 

It’s not about political parties either, I’m pretty sure I saw that 2/3rds of women SNP members (could be wrong but I think that’s correct) objected to this never mind the number of people that would object within the general population of all different types of folk.

 

I checked this thread because it had come up in normal daily conversations I’ve had with people who would never ever discuss politics with me. 

 

 

Polling suggests that it ranks very low in issues for most people, the majority of whom didn't even think there was an argument about it till yon Harry Potter woman stuck her oar in. It's social media created hysteria.

[Granny Danger]

6 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Hopefully it is overruled 

 

 

What do you mean by this?

[williemillersmoustache]

7 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Hopefully it is overruled 

Over ruled by whom?

[Richey Edwards]

15 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

Its much the same as those religious nutters who didnt want "the poofs" and "the lezzers" to be allowed to marry either.

I know some Christians who were "praying" that same-sex couples wouldn't be allowed to get married.

Get it right fucking up them.

[Leith Green]

5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

What do you mean by this?

 

3 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

Over ruled by whom?

Despite the GRR law (the existing one, and the changes debated for the last 6 years) being entirely under the remit of the Holyrood Parliament, the Scottish Secretary today said that the Tories were "considering" a S35 order.

What is a S35 order, I hear you ask?

It is something that the UK Govt can invoke to halt legislation, stop Royal Assent - even if the bill and law were presented and passed correctly, legally and democratically by the Scottish Parliament.

If they do that, we might as well just get the kilts on and kick their fuckin heids in as there will be no more pretence that our devolved parliament actually has any power.

f**k the Tories

[Benjamin_Nevis]

19 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

But it does mean that you cannot brush people off who do not support this as bigoted or hateful people.
 

Well, until you actually come up with some actual legit reasons as to why you are so opposed to this legislation, you will absolutely be brushed off as a hateful little bigot. 

[Boo Khaki]

1 hour ago, 1320Lichtie said:

And there it is…. You know it’s all a lot of bullshit deep down, but telling yourself it’s not and resorting to calling people bigots is the only argument you’ll ever see from the ‘good guys’

It would be helpful if you would elaborate a little on what, specifically, you believe is a 'lot of bullshit', otherwise it's impossible to actually discuss it with you in the even-mannered way you desire.

As for your point about dismissing people as bigots - yes, there is far too much of that goes on. Even the MSP's who drove this legislation are perfectly open about the fact that they accept that many people who are voicing objections to GRC reform hold concerns that are absolutely genuinely held, but that in itself does not mean that those concerns are based upon any sort of reality or that they will actually materialise. It's telling that throughout both consultations the people who were adamant that GRC reform would lead to predators abusing it in order to gain access to victims were wholly unable to provide a single example of this occurring in any of the multitude of countries which have already liberalised the GRC process. Plenty of examples of women and children being abused by predatory men, yet not one example where this was facilitated by abuse of GRC. 

Then there are the people who object to this simply because they actually are bigots. They may not be the majority, or even a sizable proportion of the naysayers, but as 'Gender Critical' campaigners often say about men in general and abusers, you can't tell who are the bigots and who are the people with 'genuinely held concerns' apart, only that that they are both standing on the same side of this debate.

If Westminster is daft enough to pull a Section 35 on this, then I suspect it will immediately result in a court case, one which the SG is entirely likely to win. Even if the court finds in favour of Westminster, we are looking at a little under two years before the Westminster Tories are removed from power, then GRC reform will be back on the agenda in Scotland in any case. Section 35 would be an utterly pointless piece of posturing along the lines of the disgraceful behaviour of the Scots Tories in Holyrood over the past three days, and it will not, in the long term, make any material difference in any case. GRC reform is coming whether people with genuinely held concerns and bigots alike want it or not.

[BFTD]

I could've sworn we had a thread specifically for people to angrily announce that they aren't transphobes.

Unless this is yet another issue THAT WOMAN is forcing upon the people of Scotland with no support from the electorate. Bring on democracy, I say!

[Dunning1874]

1 hour ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 It’s as clear as day what this is

If that's the case you'll have no trouble saying what's so clear then.

[Mark Connolly]

This is terrible because it just is, and I'm totally against it for that reason

[Suspect Device]

42 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

Over ruled by whom?

Our masters?

Our betters?

Thefolk really in charge?

[Granny Danger]

34 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

 

Despite the GRR law (the existing one, and the changes debated for the last 6 years) being entirely under the remit of the Holyrood Parliament, the Scottish Secretary today said that the Tories were "considering" a S35 order.

What is a S35 order, I hear you ask?

It is something that the UK Govt can invoke to halt legislation, stop Royal Assent - even if the bill and law were presented and passed correctly, legally and democratically by the Scottish Parliament.

If they do that, we might as well just get the kilts on and kick their fuckin heids in as there will be no more pretence that our devolved parliament actually has any power.

f**k the Tories

Yeah I know this, I was just trying to ascertain if the poster in question was supporting this action.  Opposing trans rights is one thing, supporting the undermining of a democratically elected Parliament is another.

[1320Lichtie]

8 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Yeah I know this, I was just trying to ascertain if the poster in question was supporting this action.  Opposing trans rights is one thing, supporting the undermining of a democratically elected Parliament is another.

100 percent would support Westminster overturning this. As for independence you can forget it, it’ll never happen in a million years thanks to the kind of thing we are talking about right now. Not a chance. 

[carpetmonster]

Without being a tin foil hattist, Westminster has been on a quest to remove rights for quite some time. Brexit, Rwanda and the gum bumping about withdrawing from the ECHR are all fairly ominous. The unmasking of the main transphobic group, the LGB Alliance as being at 55 Tufton Street and the lunatically outsize media coverage of the ‘trans issue’ when transgender people are such a tiny segment of the population, to me, signals that they’re being used as a canary in the coal mine. 
 

I hope @Boo Khaki is right when they reckon Westminster trying to overrule via S35 will be futile. In the meantime, well done to the MSPs kicking against the p***ks. 

[carpetmonster]

27 minutes ago, BFTD said:

I could've sworn we had a thread specifically for people to angrily announce that they aren't transphobes.

Unless this is yet another issue THAT WOMAN is forcing upon the people of Scotland with no support from the electorate. Bring on democracy, I say!

To be fair to @1320Lichtie, he hasn’t denied being a transphobe.