Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[ICTJohnboy]

27 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Although seem to not have a problem with the likes of Boris Johnson or Jacob Rees Mogg

 

Boris is now C of E.

Don't be fooled by the number of kids he has..... Here, there and everywhere.

[Salt n Vinegar]

1 minute ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Do you guys want lots of posts about Scottish Cricket?

Because you’re going the right way about it

Oh god no, anything but that.

Philately might work.  1929 Universal Postal Union £1 stamp is a cracker to start off with.  No, I don't have one. 

Happy to help

 

[Zern]

3 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Oh god no, anything but that.

Philately might work.  1929 Universal Postal Union £1 stamp is a cracker to start off with.  No, I don't have one. 

Happy to help

 

Philately will get you nowhere.

[Dan Steele]

2 hours ago, Scott Steiner said:

Orange parades may not be everyone's cup of tea, but the tradition has importance, depth and meaning for those who take part as well as the many onlookers and supporters.

[Tony Ferrino]

50 minutes ago, Scott Steiner said:

The Orange Order has everything to do with Scotland - it's been here since 1797 and we commemorate/celebrate events that have taken place in and been important in shaping the nation.

William of Orange was a monarch of Scotland and The Battle of the Boyne was the culmination of a Jacobite uprising simultaneously taking place both in Scotland and Ireland, also including battles such as Dunkeld and Killiecrankie.

The defeating of the Jacobite uprising by Scottish Cameronian Covenanters here and a multicultural army of Williamites in Ireland was part of a larger European power struggle, but had a huge affect on the future of everyone in the British Isles.  You've got these battles to thank for us having such of the fundamental rights we enjoy, a prime example being freedom of worship and civil and religious liberties for all.

We exist in Scotland, England, Northern Ireland, Ireland, Wales, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ghana and Togo, and just because it doesn't relate directly to battles that took place in these countries, they are still able to commemorate and celebrate.

We march through the streets because it's on the streets that people can see us.  It's standard practise for all sorts of protests/commemorations/festivals etc throughout the world.  Why should we hide away?

Marches should not pay for policing because that would restrict freedom of assembly which is enshrined in law.  The idea that we'd have to raise money just to exercise that right is counter-productive and immoral IMO.

When you speak about the ills of elsewhere what are you referring to?  And what sort of advantages to the wider community would you have in mind?  We are part of communities up and down Scotland and it's of advantages to us.

There are indeed lots of charity fundraisers, donations etc throughout the organisation.  Over Christmas, my lodge will be donating to the family of a wee girl who is having a brain operation early next year.  It'll take a bit of financial pressure off them for the constant trips to the hospital.

There's a structure to the organisation in that so many lodges make up a District Lodge and so many Districts make up a County lodge.  It's the 4 Scottish County lodges that hold the parades for their respective areas each year, and within each County districts will take turns each year to host.  The reason Cowdenbeath held the parade that year was because it was the District that includes the Cowdenbeath lodge's turn.

The 2022 County Grand Lodge of the East parade is Dalkeith.

Honestly, YB, I think a lot of people just have the wrong idea about us.  Hope that post didn't come across as overly hostile.

At least that's different PIN.

[Salt n Vinegar]

12 minutes ago, Zern said:

Philately will get you nowhere.

I'll set em up, you knock em down!

My dog has no nose..... 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

I'll set em up, you knock em down! [emoji16]
My dog has no nose..... 

No nose you say?

How does he smell?

[Salt n Vinegar]

4 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

No nose you say?

How does he smell?

TERRIBLE! Hahaahahaha..... etc.. 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Just now, Salt n Vinegar said:

TERRIBLE! Hahaahahaha..... etc.. 

my wife’s gone on holiday to the West Indies….

[Theyellowbox]

45 minutes ago, Scott Steiner said:

The Orange Order has everything to do with Scotland - it's been here since 1797 and we commemorate/celebrate events that have taken place in and been important in shaping the nation.

William of Orange was a monarch of Scotland and The Battle of the Boyne was the culmination of a Jacobite uprising simultaneously taking place both in Scotland and Ireland, also including battles such as Dunkeld and Killiecrankie.

The defeating of the Jacobite uprising by Scottish Cameronian Covenanters here and a multicultural army of Williamites in Ireland was part of a larger European power struggle, but had a huge affect on the future of everyone in the British Isles.  You've got these battles to thank for us having such of the fundamental rights we enjoy, a prime example being freedom of worship and civil and religious liberties for all.

We exist in Scotland, England, Northern Ireland, Ireland, Wales, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ghana and Togo, and just because it doesn't relate directly to battles that took place in these countries, they are still able to commemorate and celebrate.

We march through the streets because it's on the streets that people can see us.  It's standard practise for all sorts of protests/commemorations/festivals etc throughout the world.  Why should we hide away?

Marches should not pay for policing because that would restrict freedom of assembly which is enshrined in law.  The idea that we'd have to raise money just to exercise that right is counter-productive and immoral IMO.

When you speak about the ills of elsewhere what are you referring to?  And what sort of advantages to the wider community would you have in mind?  We are part of communities up and down Scotland and it's of advantages to us.

There are indeed lots of charity fundraisers, donations etc throughout the organisation.  Over Christmas, my lodge will be donating to the family of a wee girl who is having a brain operation early next year.  It'll take a bit of financial pressure off them for the constant trips to the hospital.

There's a structure to the organisation in that so many lodges make up a District Lodge and so many Districts make up a County lodge.  It's the 4 Scottish County lodges that hold the parades for their respective areas each year, and within each County districts will take turns each year to host.  The reason Cowdenbeath held the parade that year was because it was the District that includes the Cowdenbeath lodge's turn.

The 2022 County Grand Lodge of the East parade is Dalkeith.

Honestly, YB, I think a lot of people just have the wrong idea about us.  Hope that post didn't come across as overly hostile.

But it still doesn't answer my question as to what the relevance is to Scotland in 2021. I understand there is history and if people want to commemorate that then it is up to them, but why does that need to be a march and why does it need to be seen. History is just that. There is loads of historical events that could be commemorated and are, but I really fail to see why battles from hundreds of years ago have any bearing on today. Great if there is raising funds for good causes and charities, but would it not be more advantageous to more people to have something more inclusive to people of all backgrouds and faiths and those of no faith at all. I just think if it is something that is part of the fabric and history of an area, then it needs to adapt to reflect the area it relates to in 2021.

When I refer to the ills of elsewhere, I am referring to the importation of a lot of the ugly side of this from Northern Ireland. I've no reason to doubt there will be commemoration of the battles of Dunkeld and Killiecrankie, but even in Scotland they are not relevant and can be seen as divisive, but the battle of the Boyne has got absolutely nothing to do with Scotland in 2021 and you know as well as I do that that is the main focus gor those wanting to score points.

Why do we not have marches for battles won throughout Africa? Battles with France, far east, Maori etc etc etc.

Going to have to agree to disagree here, but I do not see the need or relevance of these in 2021 and are net negative to Scotland.

And I feel exactly the same on the any pro Republican marches too. If folk want to march about these things, go to Ireland.

Maybe a way to modernise and de stigmatise this would be to invite other from say ROI to join the march as however much I say it is not relevant in Scotland, it IS relevant to Irish history (both sides). 

[Theyellowbox]

30 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Do you guys want lots of posts about Scottish Cricket?

Because you’re going the right way about it

Happily. My take is the Freuchie would put up a better fight in the ashes than England. Get them over there for the 3rd test. 

[Salt n Vinegar]

7 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

my wife’s gone on holiday to the West Indies….

Jamaica? 

(Drum roll.....) 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Just now, Salt n Vinegar said:

Jamaica? 

(Drum roll.....) 

No, she wanted to go

 

 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

1 hour ago, Scott Steiner said:

The Orange Order has everything to do with Scotland - it's been here since 1797 and we commemorate/celebrate events that have taken place in and been important in shaping the nation.

William of Orange was a monarch of Scotland and The Battle of the Boyne was the culmination of a Jacobite uprising simultaneously taking place both in Scotland and Ireland, also including battles such as Dunkeld and Killiecrankie.

The defeating of the Jacobite uprising by Scottish Cameronian Covenanters here and a multicultural army of Williamites in Ireland was part of a larger European power struggle, but had a huge affect on the future of everyone in the British Isles.  You've got these battles to thank for us having such of the fundamental rights we enjoy, a prime example being freedom of worship and civil and religious liberties for all.

We exist in Scotland, England, Northern Ireland, Ireland, Wales, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ghana and Togo, and just because it doesn't relate directly to battles that took place in these countries, they are still able to commemorate and celebrate.

We march through the streets because it's on the streets that people can see us.  It's standard practise for all sorts of protests/commemorations/festivals etc throughout the world.  Why should we hide away?

Marches should not pay for policing because that would restrict freedom of assembly which is enshrined in law.  The idea that we'd have to raise money just to exercise that right is counter-productive and immoral IMO.

When you speak about the ills of elsewhere what are you referring to?  And what sort of advantages to the wider community would you have in mind?  We are part of communities up and down Scotland and it's of advantages to us.

There are indeed lots of charity fundraisers, donations etc throughout the organisation.  Over Christmas, my lodge will be donating to the family of a wee girl who is having a brain operation early next year.  It'll take a bit of financial pressure off them for the constant trips to the hospital.

There's a structure to the organisation in that so many lodges make up a District Lodge and so many Districts make up a County lodge.  It's the 4 Scottish County lodges that hold the parades for their respective areas each year, and within each County districts will take turns each year to host.  The reason Cowdenbeath held the parade that year was because it was the District that includes the Cowdenbeath lodge's turn.

The 2022 County Grand Lodge of the East parade is Dalkeith.

Honestly, YB, I think a lot of people just have the wrong idea about us.  Hope that post didn't come across as overly hostile.

10/10 for your attempt at Orangewashing fella, but the really good news is that this repugnant organisation is dying.  Sure, it still has its adherents here in certain Scottish localities where a section of the Protestant population has the courage of its intolerance, but compared to my youth the numbers are declining.  On that point, and since you appear conversant with the OO in Scotland, what is the current membership ?  

I'll hazard it's about 1/4 of what is was 50 years back and the reasons for that  aren't difficult to identify.  Over that time Scotland has moved on culturally, politically and intellectually and one of the major outcomes of that has been the marginalisation of strident religious belief.  I'd reckon most of those who still adhere to the Protestant faith consider the Orange Order as an embarrassment.   

So, save the polite propaganda pieces, it's not fooling anyone.  And for the record, my paternal Grandfather was a Northern Irishman and a  member of the Black Lodge.  My father didn't wear it as a youth and neither did I.  We both had more sense.

Edited December 16, 2021 by O'Kelly Isley III

[Salt n Vinegar]

2 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

No, she wanted to go

 

 

I have a feeling that if we keep this up, we'll be pulled off. . 

(I usually have to pay extra for that! Fnnar, fnnar.....) 

[lichtgilphead]

10 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I have a feeling that if we keep this up, we'll be pulled off. . 

(I usually have to pay extra for that! Fnnar, fnnar.....) 

The best "pulled off" joke relates to an England pre-match team talk

Alf Ramsay (to Rodney Marsh): "if you don't work hard, I'm going to pull you off at half time." 

Marsh: "Thanks boss! At City all we get is a cup of tea and an orange."

Ramsay never picked Marsh for England again.

 

[Scott Steiner]

36 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

But it still doesn't answer my question as to what the relevance is to Scotland in 2021. I understand there is history and if people want to commemorate that then it is up to them, but why does that need to be a march and why does it need to be seen. History is just that. There is loads of historical events that could be commemorated and are, but I really fail to see why battles from hundreds of years ago have any bearing on today. Great if there is raising funds for good causes and charities, but would it not be more advantageous to more people to have something more inclusive to people of all backgrouds and faiths and those of no faith at all. I just think if it is something that is part of the fabric and history of an area, then it needs to adapt to reflect the area it relates to in 2021.

When I refer to the ills of elsewhere, I am referring to the importation of a lot of the ugly side of this from Northern Ireland. I've no reason to doubt there will be commemoration of the battles of Dunkeld and Killiecrankie, but even in Scotland they are not relevant and can be seen as divisive, but the battle of the Boyne has got absolutely nothing to do with Scotland in 2021 and you know as well as I do that that is the main focus gor those wanting to score points.

Why do we not have marches for battles won throughout Africa? Battles with France, far east, Maori etc etc etc.

Going to have to agree to disagree here, but I do not see the need or relevance of these in 2021 and are net negative to Scotland.

And I feel exactly the same on the any pro Republican marches too. If folk want to march about these things, go to Ireland.

Maybe a way to modernise and de stigmatise this would be to invite other from say ROI to join the march as however much I say it is not relevant in Scotland, it IS relevant to Irish history (both sides). 

Because the past is relevant to Scotland in 2021.. it has shaped the country.  Most importantly, those holding the parades feel it's relevant to them.  How can you say the freedoms we enjoy today aren't relevant when we still exercise them?  How can you say religion's not relevant when people worship?

The Orange Order was formed in 1795, but there were Orange and Boyne societies that had a parading tradition for many years before then.  It needs to be a parade and to be seen because it's important for us to carry on that tradition.  We're following in the footsteps of our forefathers.  If you were making the point that no one should use the streets for charity runs, protests or marches of any kind then you might have a point, but I get a sense that you're singling us out.

The Orange Order is a religious organisation, so membership is limited to Protestants however anyone is able to watch our parades, so in that respect we are indeed inclusive.  Why the desperation for things to be inclusive anyway though?  Everybody has different political/religious/philisophical beliefs.  Would you ask AUOB to be inclusive to Unionists?  It's normal for people to be able to express a view or a tradition that not everybody subscribes to.  In a modern Scotland, EVERYBODY has a place, and that includes us.

If people want to set up organisations to commemorate battles won in Africa then they can - it's up to them.  You'll find all sorts of battle commemorations in countries throughout the world.

Dunkeld and Killiecrankie are indeed very relevant in Scotland, even today.  History is important and that's why it gets taught in schools.  The Battle of the Boyne, as I explained, does indeed have lots to do with Scotland in 2021.  If it had gone the other way, we'd have a far different country.

Orangemen from the ROI do indeed have Orange parades.  Check Rossnowlagh for example - the locals in Donegal love it.  There's never any trouble, hardly any police and it's absolutely a net-positive.

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Scott Steiner

[Soapy FFC]

 

[Scott Steiner]

20 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

10/10 for your attempt at Orangewashing fella, but the really good news is that this repugnant organisation is dying.  Sure, it still has its adherents here in certain Scottish localities where a section of the Protestant population has the courage of its intolerance, but compared to my youth the numbers are declining.  On that point, and since you appear conversant with the OO in Scotland, what is the current membership ?  

I'll hazard it's about 1/4 of what is was 50 years back and the reasons for that  aren't difficult to identify.  Over that time Scotland has moved on culturally, politically and intellectually and one of the major outcomes of that has been the marginalisation of strident religious belief.  I'd reckon most of those who still adhere to the Protestant faith consider the Orange Order as an embarrassment.   

So, save the polite propaganda pieces, it's not fooling anyone.  And for the record, my paternal Grandfather was a Northern Irishman and a  member of the Black Lodge.  My father didn't wear it as a youth and neither did I.  We both had more sense.

Thanks for the 10/10, however I'm afraid it's 0/10 for manners for you.

Next time, try conversing like an adult and you might get on better.

Seriously, why can't you types just be normal?

[ICTJohnboy]

5 minutes ago, Scott Steiner said:

Thanks for the 10/10, however I'm afraid it's 0/10 for manners for you.

Next time, try conversing like an adult and you might get on better.

Seriously, why can't you types just be normal?

 

You mean singing about being "Up To Our Knees in F.E.N.I.A.N. Blood?

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by ICTJohnboy